Parentage of Sir Ralph Eure, d. 1421

[Polly]

A 1999 post I found in the archives and also in Weis, Magna Carta Sureties,
identifies Ralph Eure's (d. 1421/22; second wife was Katherine Aton) parents as Sir John Eure (d. 1393/94 and Isabella Clifford, dau. of Robert de Clifford and Isabel Berkeley.

But Mr. Richardson in Magna Carta Ancestry (p. 307) gives Ralph's parents as Sir
John and Margaret (no last name), and also says that Sir John died in 1368,
not 1393. Nor does he list an Isabella Clifford among the children of
Robert and Isabel Berkeley. So, am I correct in thinking that later
research disproved the identity of Ralph's mother as Isabella Clifford, and
that in fact Margaret is correct? If so, am I also correct in thinking
that Margaret is identified as Sir John's wife because she sur. him and
left a will? (I should also note that Weis says Sir John d. 1393 who m.
Isabella Clifford is son of a Sir John and Margaret.) Hm. The Eure
pedigree seems problematic and Mr. Richardson mentions several pedigrees
with "additional" John Eures) in them. So, now I'm even more confused... But, grateful for any help in clearing the fog! Polly Zashin

[Douglas Richardson]

Dear Polly ~

Thank you for your post. You've asked a good question.

The pedigree of the early Eure family differs depending on the source you consult. Some authors such as Dodds and Hedley have two John de Eure's in a row, some authors only one.

I've copied below my current file account of Sir John de Eure, Knt., (died 1368), of Stokesley, Yorkshire. He was the son and heir of Sir John de Eure, Knt. (died 1322), of Stokesley, Yorkshire, by his wife, Agnes. I've included my references which you can read for yourself.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

+ + + + + + + + +
EURE FAMILY

7. JOHN DE EURE, Knt., of Stokesley, Yorkshire, and Kirkley (in Ponteland), Northumberland, son and heir, born 18 October 1302 (aged 19 in 1322, 24 in 1326). He married before 1340 MARGARET _____. They had two sons, Robert and Ralph, Knt. He petitioned for livery of his lands in 1326. He did not receive livery of Kirkley (in Ponteland), Northumberland until 22 Feb. 1358. He obtained restitution of the remainder of his lands in 1360 by payment of a £400 fine. In 1364 he granted all his lands in Yorkshire to his son, Robert. In 1365 David de Strathbogie, Earl of Atholl, sued him regarding the services due from the manor of Kirkley (in Ponteland), Northumberland. SIR JOHN DE EURE died 19-25 March 1368. His widow, Margaret, left a will dated 4 April 1378, proved 27 May 1378, requesting burial in the choir of the church of Preaching Brothers, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland.

References:

Glover & St. George, Vis. of Yorkshire 1584-5, 1612 (1875): 607-617 (Eure ped.). Blackburne, Reg. Booke of Inglebye iuxta Grenhow (1889): xli-xlv. Wheater, Some Hist. Mansions of Yorkshire (1889): 13-29. Arch. Aeliana 3rd Ser. 6 (1910): 58. Clay, Extinct & Dormant Peerages (1913): 53-60 (sub Eure). VCH Yorkshire N.R. 2 (1923): 302-303. Dodds, Hist. of Northumberland 12 (1926): 492-501 (ped.) (adds an additional John de Eure to ped.). Oliver, Northumberland & Durham Deeds (Newcastle-upon-Tyne Recs. Comm. 7) (1929): 173-174. Hedley, Northumberland Fams. 1 (1968): 184-191 (Eure ped.) (adds an additional John de Eure to ped.). Genealogists' Mag. 17 (1972): 86-87.

[John Watson]

Dear Polly,

The answer to your question is that the parents of Sir Ralph de Eure who died on 10 March 1422 were Sir John de Eure, who died on 21 March 1366 and his wife Margaret de Gray, who died shortly before 27 May 1378, daughter of Sir Thomas de Gray of Hetton Northumberland (d. bef. 12 Mar 1343) and his wife Agnes.

Ralph de Eure was born about 1350 (aged 19 in 1369) and was heir to his elder brother Robert who died shortly before 21 May 1369. Ralph married firstly, before April 1372, Isabel, daughter of Sir Aymer de Athol. She died about 1380 and he married secondly, before April 1381, Katherine, one of the three daughters of Sir William de Aton (d. 13 Aug 1387) and his wife Isabel de Percy.

By his first wife, Ralph had a son Ralph and a daughter Margaret, who are mentioned in the will of their grandmother Margaret in 1378. By his second wife he had a daughter Elizabeth, wife of William Claxton (d. 1431), and two sons, William who died before Feb 1467 and Robert who died 3 Feb 1480.

Regards,

John

[Polly]

Thanks to both Douglas and John for their information.

[Colin Withers via]

I have been transcribing some unpublished medieval deeds in the Hutton
of Marske archive at the North Yorkshire County Record Office, and the
following witness list has an amusing entry (you will spot him).

I also note one chap described as William de Sancto Jacobo, can anyone
hazard a guess where this refers to?

The deed refers to land in Herlethorpe, which is Harlethorpe in the
parish of Bubwith, in the East Riding.

*Ref: ZAZ 10/7/1*

[1221x1235]

To all who shall see or hear this writing Richard Abbot of Melsa and the
Convent of the same place greeting Know ye that we have given and
granted and by the present charter confirmed to Thomas the son of Robert
de Hugate and his heirs or assigns, religious rights excepted, 2 bovates
of land in the territory of Herlethorp’ with 2 tofts in the same vill
and all other appurtenances. Namely those 2 bovates of land with 2 tofts
and all other appurts. which Hugh the son of Roger de Ellerton' at one
time held of us. To hold and to have freely and quietly by his homage
and service for ever for 12 pence yearly for all service to the fabric
fund of our church payable at our grange of Blanchemarl’ at Pentecost.
Provided, however, that the same Thomas or his heirs shall render the
foreign service demanded of them. We will truly warrant all these things
as is aforesaid to the said Thomas and his heirs or his assigns
according to the religious laws for the before mentioned rent for ever.
These being witnesses: Thomas de Lutton’; William de Garton; Oliver de
Gunnebi; James de Collu[m]; Robert the son of Geoffrey; William de
Sancto Jacobo; Peter de Herlethorp; Hugh Tisun; Geoffrey de Colevil;
Thomas de Bolut [? Bobit]; Gilbert with the beard; Robert his brother
and many others.

Seal in green wax, vesica about 1^5/8 "x ^7/8 ": central device is a
small crosier, either supported by the hand of a vested arm proceeding
from the left, or bearing on its shaft a standard flowing to the left.
Circumscription -

+ SIGIL ABBATIS + DE MELSA.

Parchment 7" x 5^5/8 " indented, lightly mildewed and shows three tiny
holes, but still in good condition. Endorsed by an Elizabethan hand
“Harlethroppe”.


Wibs

[Alex Maxwell Findlater]

I have a note that Margaret daughter of Sir Ralph Eure b ca 1350, was married to Sir John Pudsay of Bolton by Bolland. Sir John died at the Battle of Bauge in 1421. His heir was apparently Ralph Pudsay. I don't have the evidence for this, but is it the case - does anyone know? Thank you.

[John Watson]

On Thursday, 20 August 2015 22:13:15 UTC+7, Alex Maxwell Findlater wrote:
> I have a note that Margaret daughter of Sir Ralph Eure b ca 1350, was married to Sir John Pudsay of Bolton by Bolland. Sir John died at the Battle of Bauge in 1421. His heir was apparently Ralph Pudsay. I don't have the evidence for this, but is it the case - does anyone know? Thank you.

See:
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/euer-sir-ralph-1350-1422

Regards,

John

[Douglas Richardson]

Dear Alex ~

Sir John Pudsey (died 1433), of Bolton (in Boland), Yorkshire, married Margaret Eure, daughter of Sir Ralph Eure, Knt., of Witton (in Weardale), Durham, by his 1st wife, Isabel de Atholl. They had three sons, Ralph, Knt., Thomas, and John, and two daughters, Alice and Clemence (wife of John Kockley).

For the evidence that Sir Aymer de Atholl is the maternal grandfather of Margaret Eure, wife of Sir John Pudsey, see the transcript of a contemporary document published in the book, Pudsay Deeds, by R.P. Littledale (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Record Series, vol. 56) (1916). The document is explicit.

For further particulars on the Atholl, Eure, and Pudsey families, please see my book, Royal Ancestry, published in 2013.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

[Alex Maxwell Findlater]

Many thanks everyone. Alex