Hill , Bylney Connection

[. .]

Hello List,

I have been researching my Hill line, ie:

[...up to me....M.D. Warner]

my 6th GGfather: Daniel Warner = Sarah Hill
my 7th GGfather: Capt. Nathaniel Hill = Sarah Nutter
my 8th GGfather: Capt. Valentine Hill = Mary Eaton
my 9th GGfather: William Hill = Catherine Davy
my 10th GGfather: John Hill = Alice ?
my 11th GGfather: William Hill = Margarette Bylney [sister of Dr. Thomas Bylney]
*
Thomas Bylney = Mary Bellers
John Bellers = Elizabeth de Howby [da of Anthony Sutton als Howby, son of Sir. Thomas De Sutton & Alice De Howby]
James Bellers = Margaret Bernake
William Bernake = Mary de Engaine

IF my research is correct and after I have properly sourced all the generations, this will be another Royal Line.
The issue I am having is connecting Margarette Bylney to Thomas Bylney and Mary Bellers. I have racked my
brains and spent many many hours researching, but it seems the Bylney family in question have few records.

Can, or will, any researcher that has done research on the Bilney / Bylney family please contact me?

I
found the connection from the Hill family to the Bylney family here, and
in many other sources I have not shown here to save room:

The visitation of Norffolk
By William Harvey, Robert Cooke, John Raven (Richmond herald.), College of Arms (Great Britain)
Page 154
Hill Pedigree
Harl. 1552, Ink fol. 14
P. Cooke 1590
Arms.—Gules,
two bars ermine, in chief a lion passant per pale or and argent.
Crest.—A boar's head and neck sable, in the mouth a broken spear proper,
headed argent.
William Hill of Hayles in Co. Norf. = Margarett da of Bylney, sister of the Dr.
Alice
da of..., widow of Jermyn Burroughs of Norf, 1st wife. = John Hill of
Hayles in Co. Norf. = Alice Da. of Robert Shawborne of Norwich, 2nd wife
(son if the 1st wife) William Hill of Hayles in Co. Norf = Catherine da. of Edmound Davye in Co. Suff.
[John Hill, brother of Valentine Hill as shown in his will of 1665, proved 1687.]
***
Genealogical gleanings in England, Volume 1
By Henry Fitz-Gilbert Waters, New England Historic Genealogical Society
Page 5
John Hill, of London, merchant, 14 December, 1665, proved 8 February, 1687. [Note: Brother of Valentine Hill]
To wife Sarah one thousand pounds.
To daughter Sarah one thousand pounds and a silver bason.
To daughter Elizabeth eight hundred pounds and a silver "sully bub pott."
To daughter Hannah eight hundred pounds and a silver sugar box.
Wife
now great with child. If it prove a son then he is to have land and
tenements in Winthorpe and Croft and elsewhere in Lincolnshire, of the
yearly value of twenty-four pounds, and six hundred pounds in money.
Whereas
my brother Valentine Hill, late of New England, deceased, did owe me at
the time of my (sic) decease, above three hundred pounds, not yet
satisfied, I give and bequeath the said debt unto the children of
my
said brother Hill and to the children of my brother-in-law Mr. Thomas
Cobbett, to be equally divided amongst them, share and share alike.
To my niece Bridget Cobbett five pounds.
To cousin Garrett's children ten pounds, to be equally divided among them.
To cousin Thomas Browne and his wife forty shillings, for rings.
To cousin John Browne forty shillings.
To brother Hutchinson and sister each forty shillings, and cousin Elizabeth Meredith twenty shillings, to buy rings.
To my brother Nathaniel Hunt and brother Richard Hunt, each five pounds.
To brother-in-law John Miles and to his wife, each five pounds, and to their son John Miles, five pounds.
To my maid-servant Prudence, forty shillings if dwelling with me at time of my death.
To my cousins Charles, Margaret and Katherine Watkins, each twenty shillings, for rings.
To the poor saints in London ten pounds, to be distributed at the discretion of my overseers.
To the poor of the parish where I now dwell, forty shillings.
The residue to wife Sarah, who is appointed executrix.
Friends
Mr. William Allen, Mr. William Sawyer, and Mr. Robert Wakeling,
overseers. Witnesses, Nathaniel Hunt and Charles Watkin. Exton, 16.
***
Pedigrees that relate to This family:
The Visitation of Norfolk, 1563, 1613., Hill
The Visitation of Norfolk, 1664., Hill
London Visitation Pedigrees, 1664., Hill
***
he pioneers of Maine and New Hampshire, 1623 to 1660: a descriptive list
By Charles Henry Pope
Page 95
HILL,
Valentine, merchant, Boston, admitted to the church 12 (4) 1636,
admitted freeman May 13, 1640. Proprietor, town officer, deacon. Was
chief owner of a large wharf property. Bought lands at Dover, and
removed thither. Was chosen by the freemen to act as an assistant, with
the magistrates, 5 (2) 1653. Signed petition to Gen. Court in 1654. He
drew a bill of exchange 17 July, 1648, for 36 pounds, on his "brother,
Mr. John Hill, merchant, at the Angell and Starre in Cheapside," London.
[A.] With wife Mary he sold, Nov. 2, 1660, a farm at Stony river, New
Haven, given to her as a legacy, by Gov. Theophilus Eaton, of New Haven.
He
m. 1, Frances —; she died 17 (12) 1644-5; he M 2nd: Mary Eaton
daughter of Gov. Eaton; she was adm. to the chh. of Boston 15 (3) 1647.
Governor Eaton's will, 1656, names three children, Theophilus, Jr.;
Mary, wife of Valentine Hill of Boston, late of Piscataqua, and Hannah;
mentions his wife and her son Thomas Yale. Children, Hannah b. 17 (1)
1638, (m. Jan. 24, 1659, Antipas Boyce,) John b. and d. in 1640,
Elizabeth b. 12 (10) 1641, d. 9 (2) 1643, Joseph and Benjamin b. and d.
in 1644, Joseph bapt. 26 (5) 1646, ae. about 8 days, John bapt. 22 (6)
1647, ae. about 3 days, Samuel bapt. 10 (10) 1648, ae. about 2 days,
Mary bapt. 30 (10) 1649, ae. about 1 day, Elizabeth bapt. 25 (3) 1651,
Nathaniel b. Oyster River beginning of March, 1659-60. He died before
June 24, 1662, when his widow Mary received her dower. The widow m.
second [Ezekiel] Knight.

"Mrs. Mary Knight was before me on the
23d of May, 1702 and acknowledged that Nathaniel Hill was the son of her
first husband, Valentine Hill. John Woodman, Justs. Pac."

http://books.google.com/books?id=L9ItAAAAYAAJ&dq=1643%20%22Mary%20EATON%22&pg=PA95#v=onepage&q=1643%20%22Mary%20EATON%22&f=false
**
Genealogical Dictionary of Maine and New Hampshire, Sybil Noyes, Charles Thornton Libby, and Walter Goodwin Davis
Portland, ME 1928-1939; Reprint, Baltimore, MD,
Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
Page: p. 330

Valentine
Hill moved from London, where he and his brother John were merchants,
to Boston in early 1636. During 1636-1649, Valentine acquired a good
deal of land in central Boston including land along the waterfront which
is close to the area which presently occupies Fanuel Hall and Quincy
Market. In 1641, he was elected as one of the "Selectmen" for Boston,
the equivalent of a modern-day city council. His main business appears
to have been as a trader -- exporting and importing products such as
tobacco, indian corn, sugar, cattle, etc.

He was a very
prosperous and entrepreneurial sort and apparently quite well-to-do. In
1644, while a prosperous businessman and politician in Boston, Valentine
acquired the Governors Mansion of Massachusetts. Governor John Winthop
owed Valentine 500 pounds and settled his indebtedness by giving Mr.
Hill the mansion. Valentine and his first wife, Frances Freestone, lived
in the mansion for five years as did the first nine of his eleven
children. Frances died in 1645 six months following the death of their
twin sons Benjamin and Joseph. Valentine Hill re-married in 1645. He
married Mary Eaton, daughter of the Governor of Connecticut, Theophilus
Eaton. They had six children born between 1646 and 1659, the last of
whom was Nathaniel Hill.

Valentine and Mary Hill left Boston in
1649 and settled on a large 500 acre farm in Dover, Massachusetts at a
site known as Oyster River Plantation (currently Durham, New Hampshire).
Mr. Hill developed a lumber mill business and brought great prosperity
to the Oyster River community. He became active in town politics and
built the first town meeting house on land that now is part of the
University of New Hampshire. Valentine Hill died unexpectedly and early
in his life in 1661 at Oyster River. His estate was vast and carried
many legal problems such that his estate was not finally settled until
1697, thirty six years after his death.

Valentine's youngest son,
Nathaniel, was the only heir to survive the lengthy legal entanglement
of the Hill estate. In 1797 he renounced his ownership of the 500 acre
farm that his father had left him in order to clear the estate. He had
married Sarah Nutter in about 1680 and they had five children
(Valentine, Samuel, Sarah, Abigail and Mary). Captain Nathaniel Hill was
a deacon in the church at Oyster River and was prominent as an official
of the town of Durham as well. Nathaniel died in Durham in 1741 and was
said to have "lost his reason" during the final months of his long
life....etc.
***







"Ihr Racke, wollen sie ewig leben?" -Frederick the Great, 1712 - 1786

[Nathaniel Taylor]

At 12:25 PM -0800 11/15/11, Johnny Brananas wrote:
>Because his brother John Hill's will of 1665 mentions "tenements in
>Winthorpe and Croft and elsewhere in Lincolnshire," isn't it more
>likely that Valentine is the child found in IGI batch C054882 --
>Valentine Hill, son of William and Elizabeth, bapt. 23 March 1610,
>Winthorpe, Lincolnshire?

And this has gone unnoticed? Wow. GDMNH notes the Croft & Winthorpe
connections but doesn't say anything about Valentine Hill's origins.
GDMNH does point out that his wife Frances Freestone was baptised in
1610 at Alford, about 12 miles away from Winthorpe, which is
consistent with Hill's known Lincolnshire - NH connections, e.g. to
Christopher [H]elme, whose plantation at Dover he bought.

A John Hill was baptised at Winthorpe 23 July 1620, also son of
William and Elizabeth. If this John's birth in 1620 isn't
inconsistent with the age of the London merchant testator, then that
should help cement this ID.

NB, a Faith Hill was also baptised there in 1633, dau. Wm & Mary; she
married there, in 1654, Thomas Longbottom. It doesn't get any better
than that.

Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://nltaylor.net/sketchbook/

[m...@armorial.es]

This is probably just muddying the waters, but I wonder if John Hill,
b. 31 Dec 1587 at Winthorpe, son of Thomas Hill - and so a possible
younger brother of William Hill m. Margaret Bylney - could be the John
Hill who left England circa 1630, was a Freeman of Boston in 1642,
received a grant of land at Oyster River in that same year; and died
circa 1647, after which his son John Hill (b. abt 1624) paid tax for
that land in 1650 and 1657.

There have been previous attempts to argue that this younger John Hill
was a brother of Valentine Hill of Oyster River (groundlessly, in
light of the 1665 will mentioned above). If this proposed relationship
could be proven, then John Hill the younger would in fact have been a
first cousin of Valentine Hill.

Matthew Hovious

http://matthewhovious.blogspot.com


On Nov 16, 12:45 am, Johnny Brananas <ravinmaven2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Matthew Hovious]

On Nov 15, 10:49 pm, Nathaniel Taylor <nltay...@nltaylor.net> wrote:
> NB, a Faith Hill was also baptised there in 1633, dau. Wm & Mary; she
> married there, in 1654, Thomas Longbottom. It doesn't get any better
> than that.

No doubt the same couple referenced in this record pulled from A2A:
Winthorpe and Mumby 2 SIB/1/5 19 Oct 1669 These documents are
held at Lincolnshire Archives
Contents:
Release: Thomas Longbotham of East Butterwick, gent., and Faith his
wife, sole daughter and heir of William Hill, to Gervas Sibthorp of
Lincoln, gent.
Consideration: £900.
Property: messuage and 6 closes containing 18 acres, messuage and
17a., messuage and 3 roods, (all in Winthorpe), close of pasture cont.
5a. in Mumby, 14a. pasture and 1a. arable in Winthorpe near the sea-
bank.

[Matthew Hovious]

Another relevant record pulled from A2A...
Croft MON 1/4/7 1532-1635 These documents are held at Lincolnshire
Archives
4 items
Copies information: Transcript in M.C.D. 246/9

Contents:
Title of Hill to various small pieces of land at Croft (as in MON
1/5-1/6) Beche to Ranson, Ranson and Grey to Hill (of Winthorpe).
The last deed in this series is a quit claim of interest.
5½ acres of land in Croft. Edward Hutchinson, draper, son of the late
Edward Hutchinson, mercer, of Alford, and Sarah, his wife, daughter of
William Hill of Saleby, yeoman, to William Hill.
(Edward and Sarah, now of Boston in the parts of America called New
England).
Sealed and delivered at Boston, Massachusetts in the presence of John
Cotton, William Hutchinson and Richard Hasellde.

[Nathaniel Taylor]

At 1:15 AM -0800 11/16/11, m...@armorial.es wrote:
>This is probably just muddying the waters, but I wonder if John Hill,
>b. 31 Dec 1587 at Winthorpe, son of Thomas Hill - and so a possible
>younger brother of William Hill m. Margaret Bylney - could be the John
>Hill who left England circa 1630, was a Freeman of Boston in 1642,
>received a grant of land at Oyster River in that same year; and died
>circa 1647, after which his son John Hill (b. abt 1624) paid tax for
>that land in 1650 and 1657.
>
>There have been previous attempts to argue that this younger John Hill
>was a brother of Valentine Hill of Oyster River (groundlessly, in
>light of the 1665 will mentioned above). If this proposed relationship
>could be proven, then John Hill the younger would in fact have been a
>first cousin of Valentine Hill.
>
>Matthew Hovious

Well, now I'm scratching my head too. GDMNH lists the John b. c.
1624 and mentions his possible Boston father John d. 1647 but doesn't
mention a 1642 Oyster River grant to the latter.

Just noticed my children are descended from an early 18th-century
Hill in Oyster River area (Durham), of unknown parentage, so
therefore likely descend either from Valentine or John, the two Hill
ur-fathers in that area.

Does anyone have the 1664 London visitation pedigrees volume that
according to the original poster may have something on the London
merchant John Hill? Does this connect him to any specific kin either
in Lincolnshire or in Norfolk?

[Nathaniel Taylor]

At 4:23 AM -0800 11/16/11, Matthew Hovious wrote:
>On Nov 15, 10:49 pm, Nathaniel Taylor <nltay...@nltaylor.net> wrote:
>> NB, a Faith Hill was also baptised there in 1633, dau. Wm & Mary; she
>> married there, in 1654, Thomas Longbottom. It doesn't get any better
>> than that.
>
>No doubt the same couple referenced in this record pulled from A2A:
>Winthorpe and Mumby 2 SIB/1/5 19 Oct 1669 These documents are
>held at Lincolnshire Archives
>Contents:
>Release: Thomas Longbotham of East Butterwick, gent., and Faith his
>wife, sole daughter and heir of William Hill

Hence she wasn't half-sister of the merchant brothers by a later
marriage. But really, I just liked the names.

[Doug]

> http://books.google.com/books?id=L9ItAAAAYAAJ&dq=1643%20%22Mary%20EAT...

Is it this Dr Thomas Bilney that you are referreing to?

The christian martyr?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bilney


Doug Smith

[Hal Bradley]

This identifies Sarah, the wife of Edward Hutchinson (who briefly came to
New England and returned to England). She was probably the Sarah Hill
christened at Croft 10 Oct. 1613, daughter of William Hill. Edward & Sarah
were married circa 1632/1633 as their oldest known child was baptized at
Boston, Massachusetts in 1634.
There is also this that connects Edward Hutchinson with the Hill family:
"On 21 February 1638/9 it is ordered that that lot which was reserved for
Valentine Hill is granted to Sergeant {Edward] Hutchinson as part of his
second division if so be Valentine Hill doth not come to inhabit and build
thereon." [Great Migration Begins 2:1053 citing RICR 1:67.]
Hal Bradley

Nov 16, 2011 04:41:00 AM, m...@armorial.es wrote:

Another relevant record pulled from A2A...

Croft MON 1/4/7 1532-1635 These documents are held at Lincolnshire
Archives

4 items
Copies information: Transcript in M.C.D. 246/9
Contents:
Title of Hill to various small pieces of land at Croft (as in MON
1/5-1/6) Beche to Ranson, Ranson and Grey to Hill (of Winthorpe).
The last deed in this series is a quit claim of interest.

5½ acres of land in Croft. Edward Hutchinson, draper, son of the late

Edward Hutchinson, mercer, of Alford, and Sarah, his wife, daughter of
William Hill of Saleby, yeoman, to William Hill.
(Edward and Sarah, now of Boston in the parts of America called New
England).
Sealed and delivered at Boston, Massachusetts in the presence of John
Cotton, William Hutchinson and Richard Hasellde.

On Nov 15, 9:25 pm, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> Because his brother John Hill's will of 1665 mentions "tenements in
> Winthorpe and Croft and elsewhere in Lincolnshire," isn't it more
> likely that Valentine is the child found in IGI batch C054882 --
> Valentine Hill, son of William and Elizabeth, bapt. 23 March 1610,
> Winthorpe, Lincolnshire?

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[Matthew Hovious]

Nat,

Someone else's research (http://bit.ly/tTz2Ab) cites John Scales,
apparently the expert on early Dover NH (including the part once known
as the Oyster River Plantation) as stating FWIW that
'A John Hill was taxed in Dover, N. H., the 8th of the 10th month,
1639. This could not have been the John Hill of Dover, who in 1659
deposed that he was about thirty-five years of age, for he was,
therefore, born about 1624 and would be only fifteen years of age in
1639. If born in 1624, he would have become of age in 1645, and so
would well correspond to the John Hill who was admitted as freeman in
Boston in that year. John Hill of Dover had wife Elizabeth, and John
Hill of Boston married Elizabeth Strong, 16 Jan. 1656. The births of
his children so far as known, indicate that the John of Boston was the
John of Dover. It is probable that his father, the first John Hill
mentioned above, acquired land in Dover and was taxed for it in 1639;
that he returned to Boston and died in 1647; that his son John Hill
inherited land of his father in Dover and was taxed for it in 1650;
that he married Elizabeth Strong in Boston in 1656 and settled in
Dover at once, where he was taxed in 1657 and is often mentioned till
1685.(2)
John Hill lived in that part of Dover called Oyster River, now Durham,
N. H. He was a grand juryman in 1668 and in 1671.

(2) Hist. Memoranda of Ancient Dover, pp. 353, 350, 349, 356, 363.
Some have supposed that John Hill of Dover was a brother to Valentine
Hill of that place. This is disproved by the fact that John, brother
of Valentine Hill, was a merchant of London. His will, dated 14 Dec.
1665, shows plainly that he was not the John Hill of Dover, N. H. See
Waters' Gleanings. Vol. I. 5. ' [ENDQUOTE

So nothing really new in speculating about the Valentine/John link,
but positive identification of Valentine may now allow the search for
John of Oyster River's roots to be re-opened.


Matthew

http://matthewhovious.blogspot.com

[holl...@gmail.com]

On Nov 16, 10:06 am, Johnny Brananas <ravinmaven2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Another relevant record pulled from A2A...
> > Croft  MON 1/4/7  1532-1635 These documents are held at Lincolnshire
> > Archives
> > 4 items
> > Copies information: Transcript in M.C.D. 246/9
>
> > Contents:
> > Title of Hill to various small pieces of land at Croft (as in MON
> > 1/5-1/6) Beche to Ranson, Ranson and Grey to Hill (of Winthorpe).
> > The last deed in this series is a quit claim of interest.
> > 5½ acres of land in Croft. Edward Hutchinson, draper, son of the late
> > Edward Hutchinson, mercer, of Alford, and Sarah, his wife, daughter of
> > William Hill of Saleby, yeoman, to William Hill.
> > (Edward and Sarah, now of Boston in the parts of America called New
> > England).
> > Sealed and delivered at Boston, Massachusetts in the presence of John
> > Cotton, William Hutchinson and Richard Hasellde.
>

> Okay, this lady must be the "sister Hutchinson" named in John Hill's
> will.  _The Great Migration Begins_, in its sketch of Edward
> Hutchinson, brother of William who married Anne Marbury, mentions
> Edward's wife:  "By 1633 Sarah ______; 'Sarah Hutchinson the wife of
> our brother Edward Hutchinson' was admitted to Boston church on 15
> December 1633 [BChR 17].  She died in England after 1669 [NEHGR
> 20:363."
>
> Edward and Sarah (Hill) Hutchinson came to New England by 1633, but
> returned to England for good by 1644.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Someone needs to write all this up and submit it for publication.

[Nathaniel Taylor]

This is a good example of the low-hanging fruit currently out there
in the identification of 17th-century Anglo-American colonists.
People with reasonably distinctive names, and enough already-known
information about them to provide leads or confirmatory clues, can
now be found in extracted IGI vitals and A2A-indexed deeds, where
heretofore they sat just beyond the limits of interest, time and
money. In this case, 48 hours of poking & chat by sgmers makes
identifications unknown for decades, and brings a new kin-group into
focus.

Nat

[Nathaniel Taylor]

At 1:37 PM -0500 11/16/11, Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
>At 9:06 AM -0800 11/16/11, mhol...@mac.com wrote:

>This is a good example of the low-hanging fruit currently out there
>in the identification of 17th-century Anglo-American colonists.
>People with reasonably distinctive names, and enough already-known
>information about them to provide leads or confirmatory clues, can
>now be found in extracted IGI vitals and A2A-indexed deeds, where
>heretofore they sat just beyond the limits of interest, time and
>money. In this case, 48 hours of poking & chat by sgmers makes
>identifications unknown for decades, and brings a new kin-group into
>focus.

It should also be noted that the core identification of Valentine
Hill has been around for a bit -- there's a book or booklet by one
Rosamond Jameson Allen, produced in Florida in 1973, which says as
much, according to its FHL catalogue entry:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/fhlcatalog/printing/titledetailsprint.asp?titleno=377406

And it's already in a couple of online databases. Nevertheless,
we're filling in the picture. Here's another A2A ref, to a deed in
which Valentine Hill of Alford, mercer, and Matthias Whitinge of
Croft, yeoman, conveyed a messuage & 28 acres in Winthorpe to Thomas
May of Keddington, yeoman, on 24 April 1633.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=187-cr611&cid=8-8-138-23#8-8-138-23

[= Warwickshire County Record Office: Papers of Messrs. Heath &
Blenkinsop: Client Papers: Ancaster Papers: Property in Winthorpe
[Lincs.]: CR 611/898/1.]

I wondered at the connection of this Matthias Whiting -- a Hill
brother in law, perhaps? There's an IGI entry for a marriage at
Alford, 18 Apr 1628, of Matthew Whiting, to Martha HALL; I thought
Hall might be an error for Hill, but the marriage license specifies
her father Christopher Hall of Alford, yeoman:

http://books.google.com/books?id=otUKAAAAYAAJ&pg=143