Re: Was Sir John Middleton married to Christian de Strivelyn ?

[Jwc...@aol.com]

Dear Bill, Will and others,
Bill`s correct in stating Hickling
seems to have resolved Christiana de Mowbray`s father could not be Roger de
Mowbray, 1st Lord Mowbray as He says She was probably born in 1305 based on there
being no issue from her 1320 marriage to John Scot who died bef 1324 when She
married Richard Emildon of Newcastle who died at the Battle of Halidon Hill in
1333 and had her 1st child Jacoba in 1325.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

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[WJhonson]

Yes I already had Christiana Mowbray as a daughter of John, 2nd Lord Mowbray by his wife Aline (Aliva) de Braose.

I have to say however, that using an argument based on when her first child was born is not a very convincing one. We have many cases where a woman was married first with no offspring, even though she was fertile, and secondly suddenly starting having offspring.

It would be far more convincing if they had followed the property.

Will

[Jwc...@aol.com]

Dear Will, Bill, Kay and others,
I found some interesting
things concerning Barbara ( de Swinburne) de Strivelyn on the Rootsweb.com site "
Ancestors of a Modern British Family" by Richard Hodgson who based most of his
information on Sirnet.com. She is said to have been born in 1293 to Sir Adam
de Swinburne died 1318, somettime Sheriff of Northumberland who was married
as his 2nd wife between 1274-1279 Idonea de Graham born abt 1242, daughter of
Sir Henry de Graham,kt. of Dalkeith and his wife a daughter and heiress of Sir
Roger Avenel. Henry was one of the Magnates who swore to make King Alexander
III of the Scots grandaughter Margaret of Norway Queen. The Grahams had been in
the Comyn following since the early thirteenth century and when John Baliol
was deposed by King Edward I of England, Adam invaded Northumberland with
them, burning most of it, including his father John Swinburne`s village of East
Swinburne. He was captured and sent to Berwick Castle as a prisoner by King
Edward I who later pardoned him with the rest of Comyn`s followers.

[wjhonson]

--------------------
Stirnet's underlying and SOLE source for the entire multi-generational
Swinburne pedigree is
www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/8805/

that's it. That's their source.

Will

[wjhonson]

> Will- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

------------------
P.S. Barbara Swinburne was not dead in 1363, she was *living* in 1363.
We don't know when she died.

Will

[wjhonson]

-----------------
Thank you Will for your excellent post pointing out that even Stirnet
can make the colossal mistake of sourcing a multi-generational family
descent to a single website.

If you go *to* that website, they in a quite silly fashion, name one
of *their* sources as "The IGI". Is it even possible to name a source
in a more useless fashion? "The IGI" as if that, in any way, allows a
person to verify the details.

On the other hand, they do mention an actual *useful* source citation
of "The History of Northumberland" by Hodgson. Which happens to be
online here

http://books.google.com/books?id=wEEJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=%22history+of+northumberland%22+hodgsons&as_brr=1#PPA299,M1

So anyone interested in this line, should skip all the intervening
interpretations, glosses, and misplaced members, and go straight to
the fundamental source. Where we will likely see, that many
assumptions have been made anyway.

Will

[Jwc...@aol.com]

Dear Will,
Do You recall a discussion about the Comyn descent of the
Grahams of Dalkeith around 9 June of this year principally by John Ravilious and
Alex Findlater in the period I was off line ? John mentions the Swinburne /
Graham marriage.

Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

PS I was just trawling (i e like net fishing) with the name Graham of
Dalkeith and reference to that article came up.

[wjhonson]

The problem James isn't that individual facts may be correct. Sure
some Swinburne and some Graham may have married. That doesn't prove
that Barbara or anybody else was their offspring. The problem is that
the connection of all those facts to each other to make a family
descent may be incorrect.

Will

[Jwc...@aol.com]

Dear Will,
John Strivelyn`s 1st wife was named Barnaba rather than
Barbara de Swinburne.

Sincerely,

James W Cummings

Dixmont, Maine USA

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