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OT: Heir to the Earl of Warwick's American Kinship to the late Princess of Wales
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hoove...@yahoo.com
May 25, 2013, 6:13:22 PM5/25/13
to
Dear Scholars,
I recently corresponded with a list member about the very interesting "title-match" marriages of the children of William Fitzhugh Whitehouse and his wife, Frances Abigail Sheldon, of New York and spent some time tracing their ancestry only to find that an outstanding job had already been done by Robert Battle whose report on the ancestry of their great-grandson, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, of Rhode Island, appears here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/senators/whitehouse.htm
During the course of my research I printed, in its entirety, _The Ogden Family in America, Elizabethtown Branch and Their English Ancestry …, compiled by William Ogden Wheeler_ available on googlebooks. Though I’m not a descendant, I've used it frequently in the past and have a fair number of distant cousin connections listed therein. The volume covers some American ancestry of William Rudolph Michael Feilding, 11th Earl of Denbigh, 10th Earl of Desmond which I brought to Leo’s attention but didn’t post here since there’s no pre-1600’s ancestry involved.
The Ogden Family … also includes some of the ancestry of Hetty Bull Beatty, the paternal grandmother of Alfred Chester Beatty, II, the maternal grandfather of Hon. David Guy Greville, (b. 1957), eldest son and heir of the 8th Earl of Warwick. I’ve been working on this ancestry sporadically and would have preferred to spend more time on it, but am pleased to report a descent from Thomas Ford and Elizabeth Charde, ancestors (twice) of the late Princess of Wales.
NY = New York, NJ = New Jersey, CT = Connecticut
1] Hetty Bull, b. June 26, 1846, New York, NY, m. John Cuming Beatty,
son of Robert Beatty & Catherine Louisa Armstrong, (b. Jan. 8, 1838,
St. Croix, d. March 10, 1922, New York, NY), Jan. 28, 1868, d. Aug. 9,
1906, Westfield, NJ
2] William Gedney Bull, b. Sept. 23, 1781, Hartford, CT, m. June 27, 1843,
d. Nov. 30, 1859
3] Maria Matilda C. Chetwood, b. Dec. 16, 1811, d. Aug. 22, 1899, New York,
NY, [Ogden #2162, page 259]
4] Col Joseph Bull, of Hartford, CT, b. Feb. 11, 1735/6, d. Feb. 22, 1797
5] Esther Gedney, d. Sept. 26, 1783, aged 41
6] William Chetwood, of Elizabeth, NJ, b. June 17, 1771, m. March 24, 1800,
d. Dec. 17, 1857
7] Mary Barber, b. Nov. 1, 1780, d. April 18, 1873, [Ogden #928, page 259]
8] Capt Daniel Bull, bp. Oct. 30, 1709, m. (1) Oct. 26, 1733, d. Nov. 11, 1776
9] Hannah Wadsworth, b. July 6 (8), 1714, d. Nov. 6, 1743
10] John Gedney
11] Mary -----
12] John Chetwood
13] Mary Emott
14] Col Francis Barber, b. 1751, Princeton, NJ, m. March 24, 1778,
k. by a falling tree Feb. 11, 1783
15] Anne Ogden, b. April 18, 1758, d. July 17, 1825, [Ogden #326]
16] Daniel Bull, b. Nov. 9, 1677, m. 1707, d. Nov. 23, 1721
17] Mary Mygatt, b. Dec. 23, 1682, d. March 9, 1769
18] Jonathan Wadsworth, bp. Feb. 20, 1686/7, Hartford, CT,
m. (1) Nov. 29, 1711, d. July 23, 1739
19] Hepzibah Marsh, bp. June 6, 1686, “supposed to have died 1724”
28] Patrick Barber, from Ireland to New Jersey, 1750
29] -----
30] Moses Ogden, b. 1723, m. Nov. 3, 1746, d. Oct. 14, 1768,
bd. First Presbyterian Churchyard, Elizabeth, NJ, [Ogden #85]
31] Mary Cozzens, of Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts
32] Capt Joseph Bull, m. (1) April 11, 1671, d. March 22, 1712
33] Sarah Manning, b. Jan. 28, 1646, d. 1691
34] Joseph Mygatt, m. Nov. 5, 1677, d. 1698
35] Sarah Webster
36] Joseph Wadsworth, b. c.1647, m. (1) , will proved March 2, 1730/1
37] Elizabeth Talcott, b. Feb. 21, 1656, d. Oct. 26, 1710
38] John Marsh, of Hartford, Connecticut, m. (1) Nov. 28, 1666
39] Sarah Lyman
60] Robert Ogden, b. 1687, m. (1) 1712, d. Nov. 20, 1733, [Ogden #16,
Genealogics I00617911]
61] Hannah Crane, b. 1691, d. Oct. 30, 1726, [Genealogics I00617912]
64] Capt Thomas Bull, b. 1605, d. Oct. 12, 1684
65] Susannah -----, d. Aug. 12, 1680, aged 70
66] William Manning
67] Dorothy -----
70] Lt Robert Webster, of Hartford, CT
72] William Wadsworth
73] Elizabeth Stone
74] Lt Col John Talcott
75] Helena Wakeman
78] Richard Lyman, m. (2)
79] Hepzibah Ford
158] Thomas Ford, [Diana, Princess of Wales ancestor #7042 and 7058]
159] Elizabeth Charde, [Diana, Princess of Wales ancestor #7043 & 7059]
78 & 79 are ancestors of Adm George Dewey, 1837-1917, see _American Ancestors and Cousins of The Princess of Wales, The New England, Mid-Atlantic, and Virginia Forebears, Near Relatives, and Notable Distant Kinsmen, Through Her American Great-Grandmother, of Lady Diana Frances Spencer, Now Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales_ by Gary Boyd Roberts and William Addams Reitwiesner, Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, 1984, page 40
158 & 159 – see _The Ancestry of Diana Princess of Wales for Twelve Generations_, Richard K. Evans, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Boston, Massachusetts, 2007, page 329
Families of Early Hartford, Connecticut, (Bull, 96-108)
The Ogden Family in America, Elizabethtown Branch and Their English Ancestry … William Ogden Wheeler, 1907
Genealogy of The Marsh Family Outline for Five Generations … Press of J. E. Williams, 1886
An Account of Some of the Descendants of John Russell, The Emigrant … edited by Edwin Stanley Welles, Hartford, Connecticut, 1910, [Wadsworth Line, pages 235- ]
Cordially,
Marc
I recently corresponded with a list member about the very interesting "title-match" marriages of the children of William Fitzhugh Whitehouse and his wife, Frances Abigail Sheldon, of New York and spent some time tracing their ancestry only to find that an outstanding job had already been done by Robert Battle whose report on the ancestry of their great-grandson, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, of Rhode Island, appears here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/senators/whitehouse.htm
During the course of my research I printed, in its entirety, _The Ogden Family in America, Elizabethtown Branch and Their English Ancestry …, compiled by William Ogden Wheeler_ available on googlebooks. Though I’m not a descendant, I've used it frequently in the past and have a fair number of distant cousin connections listed therein. The volume covers some American ancestry of William Rudolph Michael Feilding, 11th Earl of Denbigh, 10th Earl of Desmond which I brought to Leo’s attention but didn’t post here since there’s no pre-1600’s ancestry involved.
The Ogden Family … also includes some of the ancestry of Hetty Bull Beatty, the paternal grandmother of Alfred Chester Beatty, II, the maternal grandfather of Hon. David Guy Greville, (b. 1957), eldest son and heir of the 8th Earl of Warwick. I’ve been working on this ancestry sporadically and would have preferred to spend more time on it, but am pleased to report a descent from Thomas Ford and Elizabeth Charde, ancestors (twice) of the late Princess of Wales.
NY = New York, NJ = New Jersey, CT = Connecticut
1] Hetty Bull, b. June 26, 1846, New York, NY, m. John Cuming Beatty,
son of Robert Beatty & Catherine Louisa Armstrong, (b. Jan. 8, 1838,
St. Croix, d. March 10, 1922, New York, NY), Jan. 28, 1868, d. Aug. 9,
1906, Westfield, NJ
2] William Gedney Bull, b. Sept. 23, 1781, Hartford, CT, m. June 27, 1843,
d. Nov. 30, 1859
3] Maria Matilda C. Chetwood, b. Dec. 16, 1811, d. Aug. 22, 1899, New York,
NY, [Ogden #2162, page 259]
4] Col Joseph Bull, of Hartford, CT, b. Feb. 11, 1735/6, d. Feb. 22, 1797
5] Esther Gedney, d. Sept. 26, 1783, aged 41
6] William Chetwood, of Elizabeth, NJ, b. June 17, 1771, m. March 24, 1800,
d. Dec. 17, 1857
7] Mary Barber, b. Nov. 1, 1780, d. April 18, 1873, [Ogden #928, page 259]
8] Capt Daniel Bull, bp. Oct. 30, 1709, m. (1) Oct. 26, 1733, d. Nov. 11, 1776
9] Hannah Wadsworth, b. July 6 (8), 1714, d. Nov. 6, 1743
10] John Gedney
11] Mary -----
12] John Chetwood
13] Mary Emott
14] Col Francis Barber, b. 1751, Princeton, NJ, m. March 24, 1778,
k. by a falling tree Feb. 11, 1783
15] Anne Ogden, b. April 18, 1758, d. July 17, 1825, [Ogden #326]
16] Daniel Bull, b. Nov. 9, 1677, m. 1707, d. Nov. 23, 1721
17] Mary Mygatt, b. Dec. 23, 1682, d. March 9, 1769
18] Jonathan Wadsworth, bp. Feb. 20, 1686/7, Hartford, CT,
m. (1) Nov. 29, 1711, d. July 23, 1739
19] Hepzibah Marsh, bp. June 6, 1686, “supposed to have died 1724”
28] Patrick Barber, from Ireland to New Jersey, 1750
29] -----
30] Moses Ogden, b. 1723, m. Nov. 3, 1746, d. Oct. 14, 1768,
bd. First Presbyterian Churchyard, Elizabeth, NJ, [Ogden #85]
31] Mary Cozzens, of Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts
32] Capt Joseph Bull, m. (1) April 11, 1671, d. March 22, 1712
33] Sarah Manning, b. Jan. 28, 1646, d. 1691
34] Joseph Mygatt, m. Nov. 5, 1677, d. 1698
35] Sarah Webster
36] Joseph Wadsworth, b. c.1647, m. (1) , will proved March 2, 1730/1
37] Elizabeth Talcott, b. Feb. 21, 1656, d. Oct. 26, 1710
38] John Marsh, of Hartford, Connecticut, m. (1) Nov. 28, 1666
39] Sarah Lyman
60] Robert Ogden, b. 1687, m. (1) 1712, d. Nov. 20, 1733, [Ogden #16,
Genealogics I00617911]
61] Hannah Crane, b. 1691, d. Oct. 30, 1726, [Genealogics I00617912]
64] Capt Thomas Bull, b. 1605, d. Oct. 12, 1684
65] Susannah -----, d. Aug. 12, 1680, aged 70
66] William Manning
67] Dorothy -----
70] Lt Robert Webster, of Hartford, CT
72] William Wadsworth
73] Elizabeth Stone
74] Lt Col John Talcott
75] Helena Wakeman
78] Richard Lyman, m. (2)
79] Hepzibah Ford
158] Thomas Ford, [Diana, Princess of Wales ancestor #7042 and 7058]
159] Elizabeth Charde, [Diana, Princess of Wales ancestor #7043 & 7059]
78 & 79 are ancestors of Adm George Dewey, 1837-1917, see _American Ancestors and Cousins of The Princess of Wales, The New England, Mid-Atlantic, and Virginia Forebears, Near Relatives, and Notable Distant Kinsmen, Through Her American Great-Grandmother, of Lady Diana Frances Spencer, Now Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales_ by Gary Boyd Roberts and William Addams Reitwiesner, Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, 1984, page 40
158 & 159 – see _The Ancestry of Diana Princess of Wales for Twelve Generations_, Richard K. Evans, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Boston, Massachusetts, 2007, page 329
Families of Early Hartford, Connecticut, (Bull, 96-108)
The Ogden Family in America, Elizabethtown Branch and Their English Ancestry … William Ogden Wheeler, 1907
Genealogy of The Marsh Family Outline for Five Generations … Press of J. E. Williams, 1886
An Account of Some of the Descendants of John Russell, The Emigrant … edited by Edwin Stanley Welles, Hartford, Connecticut, 1910, [Wadsworth Line, pages 235- ]
Cordially,
Marc
hoove...@yahoo.com
May 25, 2013, 6:29:10 PM5/25/13
to
Wjhonson
May 25, 2013, 6:46:58 PM5/25/13
to hoove...@yahoo.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
When you only call Guy (b 1957) "heir" to the Earl
are you unaware that the 8th Earl died in 1995?
Guy is now the 9th Earl.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message
are you unaware that the 8th Earl died in 1995?
Guy is now the 9th Earl.
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message
Olivier
May 26, 2013, 5:48:04 AM5/26/13
to
Another cousin by the 74 & 75 :
John Talcott &
Helena Wakeman
|
Hannah Talcott 1663-1696 &
Nathan Gould 1663-1723
|
Samuel Gould 1690-1769 &
Esther Bradly 1696-1776
|
Abraham Gould 1733-1777 &
Elizabeth Burr 1732-1815
|
Abram Gould 1766-1823 &
Anna Osborn 1768-1847
|
John Burr Gould 1792-1866 &1827
Mary Moore 1798-1841
|
Jay Gould 1836-1892 &1863
Ellen Miller 1838-1889
|
Anna Gould 1878-1961 &1895
Boniface, marquis de Castellane 1867-1932
|
Georges de Castellane 1899-1944 &
Florinda Fernández 1901
|
Diane de Castellane 1927-2010 &1948
Philippe de Noailles, duc de Mouchy 1922-2011
|
Antoine de Noailles, duc de Mouchy 1950-
John Talcott &
Helena Wakeman
|
Hannah Talcott 1663-1696 &
Nathan Gould 1663-1723
|
Samuel Gould 1690-1769 &
Esther Bradly 1696-1776
|
Abraham Gould 1733-1777 &
Elizabeth Burr 1732-1815
|
Abram Gould 1766-1823 &
Anna Osborn 1768-1847
|
John Burr Gould 1792-1866 &1827
Mary Moore 1798-1841
|
Jay Gould 1836-1892 &1863
Ellen Miller 1838-1889
|
Anna Gould 1878-1961 &1895
Boniface, marquis de Castellane 1867-1932
|
Georges de Castellane 1899-1944 &
Florinda Fernández 1901
|
Diane de Castellane 1927-2010 &1948
Philippe de Noailles, duc de Mouchy 1922-2011
|
Antoine de Noailles, duc de Mouchy 1950-
John H
May 26, 2013, 8:20:08 AM5/26/13
to
Hi Marc,
Whilst I realise you are "doing" the BEATTY side of things,
I believe the 9th Earl of Warwick de Brooke and 16th Baron Brooke of
Beauchamps Court (as he is now and has been since 1996)
is called Guy David GREVILLE not David Guy GREVILLE born 30/1/1957.
From my data, the 8th Earl died at Torremolinos, Spain on 20th January 1996.
The 9th Earl is currently living as a mining company director in Claremont,
Western Australia and has a fairly heavy personal aversion to genealogy.
some general details can be found at:
> http://www.macroaxis.com/invest/manager/CVR.AX--Guy_Greville <
He has one male child by 1st wife Susan McKinley (formerly Cobbold) nee
WILSON (m: 1981)
namely: Charles Fulke Chester GREVILLE born 27/7/1982 Western Australia
and one male child born from 2nd wife Louisa nee HEENAN (m: 1996)
namely Rudolf Maxwell Guy GREVILLE born 17/12/2003 Western Australia.
I understand he also now has at least 2 grandchildren, but I am yet to
obtain any details of the wife and the grandchildren.
regards
John H
<hoove...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f6a0643c-fe42-4c7e...@googlegroups.com...
pj.evans
May 26, 2013, 11:01:05 AM5/26/13
to
hoove...@yahoo.com
May 27, 2013, 7:05:16 AM5/27/13
to
Hi, John,
Your information on the death of the 8th Earl of Warwick matches that which appears in his New York Times obituary:
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/24/world/earl-of-warwick-61-who-sold-his-castle-to-madame-tussauds.html
I have access to a copy of the 2011 edition of Debretts which presumably would include the most up-to-date information on the family. Unfortunately that copy of that edition of that book is in a university library and the library is closed today because it's a holiday in America.
It's a shame that the 9th Earl has an aversion to genealogy. I wonder if that's long-standing or just came about recently when he learned who had begun doing him on Saturday?
When I do as many people as I've been doing lately I sometimes think it would be a nice change of pace if someone would do me! Of course, no one's forcing me to do all these people and none of them ask me to do them. I do people without regard for whether or not they've already been done, whether they want to be done, or whether someone else is in the middle of doing them. Maybe someone would do me if I offered to pay them? The problem with that is I might end up unhappy with what they do :(
Cordially,
Marc
Your information on the death of the 8th Earl of Warwick matches that which appears in his New York Times obituary:
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/24/world/earl-of-warwick-61-who-sold-his-castle-to-madame-tussauds.html
I have access to a copy of the 2011 edition of Debretts which presumably would include the most up-to-date information on the family. Unfortunately that copy of that edition of that book is in a university library and the library is closed today because it's a holiday in America.
It's a shame that the 9th Earl has an aversion to genealogy. I wonder if that's long-standing or just came about recently when he learned who had begun doing him on Saturday?
When I do as many people as I've been doing lately I sometimes think it would be a nice change of pace if someone would do me! Of course, no one's forcing me to do all these people and none of them ask me to do them. I do people without regard for whether or not they've already been done, whether they want to be done, or whether someone else is in the middle of doing them. Maybe someone would do me if I offered to pay them? The problem with that is I might end up unhappy with what they do :(
Cordially,
Marc
hoove...@yahoo.com
May 27, 2013, 7:24:52 AM5/27/13
to
John Talcott
Annie Skinner
/
John Talcott, 1600-1660
Dorothy Smith, -1670
/
Samuel Talcott, 1635-1691
Hannah Holyoke, 1644-1678
/
Benjamin Talcott, 1674-1727
Sarah Hollister, 1676-1715
/
Hannah Talcott, 1706-1796
Benjamin Hale, 1707-1796
/
Hannah Hale, 1732-1786
Capt Timothy Hale, 1st Connecicut Milita, Rev War, 1727-1801
(second cousins)
/
Benjamin Hale, 1750-1831
Martha Welles, 1759-1837
/
Lucy Hale, 1800-1859
Solomon Sturges, 1796-1864
/
William Sturges, 1824-1894
Bessie McLeod, 1857-
/
Alberta Sturges, 1877-1951
George Charles Montagu, 9th E/Sandwich
Rev Samuel Wakeman
Hannah Goodyear
/
Lt Joseph Wakeman
Elizabeth Burr
/
Mary Wakeman, d. 1710
Michael Clagston, 1678-
/
Mary Clagston
Joseph Perry
/
Ebenezer Perry, 1737-1804
Martha Sherwood, 1739-1814
/
Sarah Perry, 1761-1846
Dimon Sturges, 1754-1829
/
Solomon Sturges
Lucy Hale, (above)
Genealogical tables covering the known ancestries of Solomon Sturges & Lucy Hale are included in _Solomon Sturges and His Descendants; A Memoir and a Genealogy_ by Ebenezer Buckingham, The Grafton Press, 1907. This source is available on ancestry.com The usual e-mail link doesn't appear at the top of the page but if anyone who doesn't subscribe to ancestry.com is interested, I'd be happy to scan and e-mail the charts.
Cordially,
Marc
Annie Skinner
/
John Talcott, 1600-1660
Dorothy Smith, -1670
/
Samuel Talcott, 1635-1691
Hannah Holyoke, 1644-1678
/
Benjamin Talcott, 1674-1727
Sarah Hollister, 1676-1715
/
Hannah Talcott, 1706-1796
Benjamin Hale, 1707-1796
/
Hannah Hale, 1732-1786
Capt Timothy Hale, 1st Connecicut Milita, Rev War, 1727-1801
(second cousins)
/
Benjamin Hale, 1750-1831
Martha Welles, 1759-1837
/
Lucy Hale, 1800-1859
Solomon Sturges, 1796-1864
/
William Sturges, 1824-1894
Bessie McLeod, 1857-
/
Alberta Sturges, 1877-1951
George Charles Montagu, 9th E/Sandwich
Rev Samuel Wakeman
Hannah Goodyear
/
Lt Joseph Wakeman
Elizabeth Burr
/
Mary Wakeman, d. 1710
Michael Clagston, 1678-
/
Mary Clagston
Joseph Perry
/
Ebenezer Perry, 1737-1804
Martha Sherwood, 1739-1814
/
Sarah Perry, 1761-1846
Dimon Sturges, 1754-1829
/
Solomon Sturges
Lucy Hale, (above)
Genealogical tables covering the known ancestries of Solomon Sturges & Lucy Hale are included in _Solomon Sturges and His Descendants; A Memoir and a Genealogy_ by Ebenezer Buckingham, The Grafton Press, 1907. This source is available on ancestry.com The usual e-mail link doesn't appear at the top of the page but if anyone who doesn't subscribe to ancestry.com is interested, I'd be happy to scan and e-mail the charts.
Cordially,
Marc
Wjhonson
May 27, 2013, 10:05:46 AM5/27/13
to hoove...@yahoo.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Yes he rang me up to say, and I quote
"Oh bloody hell, not you! You're going
to find that my seventh great-grandfather
was hung for murder and incest! You
will ruin my family!"
-----Original Message-----
From: hoover_marc <hoove...@yahoo.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
"Oh bloody hell, not you! You're going
to find that my seventh great-grandfather
was hung for murder and incest! You
will ruin my family!"
-----Original Message-----
From: hoover_marc <hoove...@yahoo.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
John H
May 27, 2013, 7:07:57 PM5/27/13
to
Marc for your information The Earl's aversion to genealogy is LONG LONG
STANDING.
that is why I haven't been able to get anything on his grandchildren up to
now.
I see that obit says he has 4 grandchildren!
Most of the furniture that is in Warwick Castle is still under his ownership
and l understand is leased/rented to Madame Taussauds.
Staff at Warwick Castle say that whenever he runs short of cash he rings up
and advises them he will be selling this or that piece of furniture.
Your answer was quite good except you just had to have the "dig" about
"Saturday"....was that really necessary?
It is that type of "dig" that sets off the chain reaction again...not well
thought through IMHO.
news:f05848c2-834c-478c...@googlegroups.com...
STANDING.
that is why I haven't been able to get anything on his grandchildren up to
now.
I see that obit says he has 4 grandchildren!
Most of the furniture that is in Warwick Castle is still under his ownership
and l understand is leased/rented to Madame Taussauds.
Staff at Warwick Castle say that whenever he runs short of cash he rings up
and advises them he will be selling this or that piece of furniture.
Your answer was quite good except you just had to have the "dig" about
"Saturday"....was that really necessary?
It is that type of "dig" that sets off the chain reaction again...not well
thought through IMHO.
news:f05848c2-834c-478c...@googlegroups.com...
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