CP ' Expansion ' : Sanquhar, co. Dumfries and de Ros of Wark
The...@aol.com
Hello All,
The account in CP of the family of (de) Ros of Wark
obviously is most concerned with the tenure of lands in
England. I believe (but have not found confirmation to
date) that the account concerning the origins of this
family's tenure of Sanquhar, co. Dumfries (or Nithsdale)
is in error, and that as opposed to being part of the
Espec inheritance [1] this was actually the maritagium
of Isabel, illegitimate daughter of William the Lion
(King of Scots, 1165-1214) on her marriage to Sir Robert
de Ros. As such, the passage of Sanquhar to a second
son (held of his elder brother William, of Helmsley,
co. Yorks., who d. ca. 1264) would have been quite usual.
The brief history of this family is interesting in
and of itself (including the tenure of Wark by younger
vs. elder sons), but the daughtering-out is more so.
Discussed to a limited degree in a prior SGM thread [2],
the last of the line was one Robert de Ros
(great-grandson of Sir Robert de Ros and Isabel of
Scotland). He was summoned to Parliament from 24 June
to 1 Oct 1295 by writs directed 'Roberto de Ros de Werk',
but in March 1295/6 he 'went over to the Scots' and
routed his brother William de Ros of Kendal (then
preparing the defence of Wark against the Scots).
Robert then fled before King Edward I, who besieged and
occupied Wark castle before the end of March 1296 [3].
Robert died sometime between March 1296 and 1307.
CP notes, re: his wife Laura and his daughters and
coheiresses, that Laura was
' Possibly a Scot; both her daughters were b. in
Scotland (Rolls of Parl., vol. i, p. 183). The
elder, Margaret (aet. 15 in 1307, Cal. Inq. p. m.
vol. iv, no. 427) m. John Salveyn (see Surtees'
Durham, vol. iv, City of Durham, p. 118); the
younger Isabel (aet. 12) m. John de Knockes (Cal.
Chancery Warrants, 1244-1326, pp. 321, 370). ' [4]
The passage of part of the Ros inheritance in
England to the Salveyn (or Salvin) family, heirs of the
elder daughter Margaret de Ros (as described in 'Knights
of Edward I' and Dugdale), was discussed in the prior
SGM thread [5]. However, there is nothing further - or
at least connected - to the younger daughter Isabel, at
least in the CP account. However, we find accounts as
to the passage of the Scots lands of Robert de Ros at
Sanquhar, as follows:
A. ' During the reign of Robert Bruce the barony was
divided between Richard Edgar and William de
Crichton, who held the other half in right of his
wife Isabella de Ros. ' [6]
B. ' The earliest proprietors ofthe castle and
circumjacent lands, or Lords of Sanquhar, were the
Roos, Roose, or Ross family, cadets of the Earls
of Ross, Lords of the Isles. Isobel de Ross, the
last of the line, married William, the 2d son of
Thomas, Lord of Crichton, who flourished in the
reign of Robert Bruce. At this epoch,
Richard Edgar, a descendant of Dunegal,...
obtained possession of the castle and half the
barony. But the son of Isobel de Ross, and
of William who became Lord of Crichton, appears
to have eventually expelled the intruder, and
regained the inheritance.... Sir Robert Crichton,
great-grandson of Isobel de Ross, was, in 1464,
appointed by James III, hereditary sheriff of
Dumfries-shire.' [7]
It seems from the foregoing that Isabel, younger daughter of Robert de
Ros, married 1stly John de Knockes, and 2ndly (some time after the IPM of 1307)
William (de) Crichton, who held Sanquhar de jure uxoris. This would explain
the passage of Sanquhar from the family of de Ros of Wark (erroneously
identified in some Scots accounts as cadets of the Earls of Ross) to the Crichtons.
The pedigree given below is based upon this identification.
There are 2 known emigrant GARDs who descend through this line:
1. Alexander Hamilton, signer of the U.S. Constitution
2. Daniel Roberdeau, signer of the Articles of
Confederation
Given the future history of Crichton of Sanquhar, it is likely this also
impacts the ancestry of Prince Charles (note to Neil Thompson & others).
There is additional heraldic and MI evidence that supports this
connection [8]. If anyone is aware of further documentation that bears on the above,
it would be greatly appreciated.
Good luck, and good hunting to all.
John *
______________________________
1 Robert de Ros
----------------------------------------
Death: aft Mar 1296, d.s.p.m. (probably in Scotland)[1]
Occ: Lord Ros of Wark
Father: Robert de Ros (-<1274)
Mother: Margaret de Brus (-1307)
of Wark on Tweed, Northumberland
summoned to Parliament from 24 June 1295 by writ directed 'Roberto
de Roos de Werke', thereby held to have become Lord Ros of Wark[2]
in support of Scottish cause against Edward I, resisted at Wark and
defeated forces of his brother, March 1296 (subsequently fled to
Scotland)[3] - Wark taken by forces of Edward I of England[4]
evidently continued in his Scots holdings, incl. Sanquhar, Nithsdale.
Spouse: Laura[1]
Children: Margaret (ca1292->1321), m. John de Salveyn
Isabel (ca1295-)
1.1a Isabel de Ros*
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1295[1]
held heiress of her father (in Scotland)
she (evidently) m. 1stly John de Knockes [CP XI:122 note (a)][1],
2ndly William Crichton[5]
the following (in error as to the Ros/Ross family under discussion)
from The Topographical, Statistical and Historical Gazetteer of
Scotland:[5]
' The earliest proprietors ofthe castle and circumjacent lands, or
Lords of Sanquhar, were the Roos, Roose, or Ross family, cadets of
the Earls of Ross, Lords of the Isles. Isobel de Ross, the last of
the line, married William, the 2d son of Thomas, Lord of Crichton,
who flourished in the reign of Robert Bruce. At this epoch, Richard
Edgar, a descendant of Dunegal,... obtained possession of the
castle and half the barony. But the son of Isobel de Ross, and of
William who became Lord of Crichton, appears to have eventually
expelled the intruder, and regained the inheritance.... Sir Robert
Crichton, great-grandson of Isobel de Ross, was, in 1464, appointed
by James III, hereditary sheriff of Dumfries-shire.' (II:637)[5]
the following, cited as being from Chalmers' "Caledonia":
' During the reign of Robert Bruce the barony was divided between
Richard Edgar and William de Crichton, who held the other half in
right of his wife Isabella de Ros. '[17]
Spouse: William Crichton, laird of Sanquhar (de jure uxoris)
Children: NN
Other Spouses John de Knockes - 1st husband
1.1a.1 NN Crichton
----------------------------------------
name not known (this generation probable, based on chronology);
laird of Sanquhar, Nithsdale
Children: Edward (-ca1412)
1.1a.1.1 Edward Crichton
----------------------------------------
Death: ca 1412 [7]
Occ: laird of Sanquhar
laird of Sanquhar, Nithsdale
Children: Sir Robert (->1440)
1.1a.1.1.1 Sir Robert Crichton
----------------------------------------
Death: aft Apr 1440[6]
Occ: laird of Sanquhar
laird of Sanquhar, Nithsdale
officer of the (Douglas) Lord of Galloway in collection of rents
west of the Cree, 1418 [Brown, p. 172][7]
entered into agreement with cousin William Crichton, making each
the heir of the other, April 1440 [Brown, p. 254][6]
Spouse: Elizabeth
Children: Robert (-1502), 1st Lord Crichton of Sanquhar
Christian (-ca1478)
1.1a.1.1.1.1 Christian Crichton
----------------------------------------
Death: ca 1478[7]
Spouse: Sir Robert Colville, of Ochiltree
Death: bef 9 Oct 1466[7]
Father: Robert Colville (-~1440)
Mother: Margaret Colville
Marr: bef Feb 1451[6]
Children: Sir Robert (-<1488)
1.1a.1.1.1.1.1 Sir Robert Colville
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 24 Jan 1488[7]
Occ: laird of Ochiltree and Symington
of Ochiltree
Spouse: Euphemia Wallace
Children: Margaret
1.1a.1.1.1.1.1.1 Margaret Colville
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Sir John Sempill, Lord Sempill
Death: 9 Sep 1513, Battle of Flodden[7]
Father: Thomas Sempill (-1488)
Mother: Elizabeth Ross (-<1505)
Children: William (-<1552)
1.1a.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 William Sempill
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 23 Feb 1552[8]
Occ: Lord Sempill
of Eliotstoun, co. Renfrew
2nd Lord Sempill
he m. 1stly Margaret Montgomery,
2ndly Elizabeth Arnot,
3rdly Margery Montgomery [relict] [7]
cf. SP III:437 [Montgomerie, Earl of Eglinton][7]
Spouse: Margaret Montgomery
Father: Hugh Montgomery (~1460-<1545), 1st Earl of Eglinton
Mother: Helen Campbell
Marr: abt 1504
Children: Robert (~1505-<1575)
1.1a.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Robert Sempill
----------------------------------------
Birth: abt 1505[7]
Death: bef 17 Jan 1575[7]
Occ: Lord Sempill[7]
of Eliotstoun, co. Renfrew
3rd Lord Sempill
early supporter of Mary, Queen of Scots[7]
Party to agreement of father and the Crichtons of Sanquhar 'in regard
to the slaughter of Lord Crichton', dated Edinburgh, 24 June 1550
(pp. 19-26)[8]
See Scots Peerage for full career [Sempill, Lord Sempill][7]
Spouse: Isabel Hamilton
Children: Jean
Robert (-dvp <1569),,Master of Sempill
1.1a.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Jean Sempill[8]
----------------------------------------
or Janet[8]
identified as daughter of Robert, 3rd Lord Sempill in Scots Peerage,
under Sempill, Lord Sempill (unnamed, shown in error as wife of
William Fleming)[7]
'_______ , married to Alexander Fleming of Barochan, and had
issue.' - Douglas, Peerage of Scotland, p. 494[9]
' Janet, wife of Alexander Fleming' - AHC Renfrewshire[8]. This
relationship is reflected here as opposed to that in SP,
as it is more clearly chronologically feasible given
probable birthdates of Jean Sempill (ca 1525-1540),
Alexander Fleming (ca 1525-1535) and the children of
Alexander Fleming (ca 1545-1555 for Margaret).
___________________
Re: her husband, Alexander Fleming:
of Barrochan, co. Renfrew[10]
identified as husband of Janet [Jean] Sempill by Douglas[9] [Scots
Peerage - pedigree of Sempill, Lord Sempill - says William in
error[7]].
John, 6th Lord Fleming had a charter from King James VI of
'his whole lands', erected into the lordship of Cumbernauld,
31 Jan 1595/96,
' on his own resignation for new infeftment to himself and the
heirs-male of his body, whom failing, Alexander Fleming of
Barrochan and the heirs-male of his body, whom failing, to his
own nearest heirs-male whatsoever bearing the arms and surname
of Fleming;.. '
[Scots Peerage, Vol. 8, 'Fleming, Earl of Wigtown' (p. 545)][7]
Spouse: Alexander Fleming[11], laird of Barrochan, co. Renfrew
Death: aft 31 Jan 1595[7]
Birth: ca 1530[12]
Father: William Fleming (->1552)
Children: Margaret (-1618)
Patrick
1.1a.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Margaret Fleming[11]
----------------------------------------
Death: Dec 1618[11]
' Margaret Fleming, daughter to the Laird of Barrochan ' [Roberdeau
Genealogy][13]
identified as daughter of Alexander Fleming, laird of Barrochan by
James Paterson [History of the County of Ayrshire, Vol. II,
p. 248[11]] - this is supported by the naming pattern of their
children, with the eldest son being named Alexander for his
maternal grandfather[11]
also called Marion ['Mareoun Fleming' acc. to Paterson, Vol. II,
pp. 248-249[11]] and Mariota [in Robertson - see reference in
Paterson], but erroneously identified by Paterson as being the
wife of James [her son][11].
will recorded 31 Mar 1619, Commisariot of Glasgow:
'Marion [Fleming], relict of James Cunynghame, of
Eschinzairdis, parish of Kilwyning, 31 Mar 1619'[14]
________________
Re: her husband, James Cunyngham:
of Ashinyards, co. Ayr
camerarius (chamberlain) of Kilwinning
acquired Eisenyards [Ashinyards] from J. Russel, 1567; resigned same
to son Alexander, 1594[11]
'19th. James Cunyngham of Ashenyeard, second son of Grabriel [sic],
third Laird of Craigends, by Margaret Livingstone, daughter
to Kilsyth; whose mother was Lady Mary Grahme, daughter to
the Earl of Monteith; he is the fourth generation from
Alexander, first Earl of Glencairn; and nineteenth from
Friskine the father of Malcome who preserved King Malcome
Canmore from Macbeth’s tyranny, by forking hay upon him.
He married Margaret Fleming, daughter to the Laird of
Barrochan,...' Cunyngham MS.[13]
Ref. Roberdeau Genealogy[13];
Hist. of the County of Ayr, Vol. II: Cuninghame of Ashinyards,
pp. 248 - 250 [more detailed/accurate][11]
Spouse: James Cunyngham, laird of Ashinyards
Death: aft 1593[13]
Father: Gabriel Cunyngham (?1515-1547)
Mother: Elizabeth Livingston (?1518-)
Children: Alexander (dsp ->1613), laird of Ashinyards
James (-<1623), laird of Ashinyards
Jean (->1613)
John (-1623)
Gavin (-1623)
Robert
William (-1626)
1.1a.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 William Cunyngham[11]
----------------------------------------
Death: 6 Aug 1626[15]
Occ: Keeper of the Privy Seal
'youngest lawfull brother' of Alexander of Ashinyards, as identified
in his will of 17 June 1613[11]
listed as writer to the King's Signet initially;[13] subsequently
Deputy Keeper of the Privy Seal
Usher to Prince Charles, 8 Jan to 20 Feb 1625
acquired lands either through grant due to royal service or through
purchase: listed as 'of Rathillet and Brownhill'.[15]
NOTE:
Identification as 'second son' by Robert Cunyngham (ca. 1740) in
his MS, cited in Roberdeau Genealogy[13], was in error (see details
concerning the issue of James Cunyngham and Margaret Fleming in
Paterson[11])
will of 'William Cunyngham, Writer to the Signet' proven 16 January
1626/7 [CC8/8/54, Edinburgh Commissary Court][16]
'20th. William Cunyngham, his second son, a writer to the King’s
Signet, and came to be keeper thereof; he married Rebekah
Muirland [2], daughter to the Laird of Lenhouse; had -
Richard;
William;
Janet, married to Alexander, eighth of Craigends.' Cunyngham MS.[13]
Spouse: Rebekah Muirhead
Children: Richard (<1623-1670) ~ great-grandfather of
Daniel Roberdeau
Janet (<1624->1687) ~ great-great grandmother of
Alexander Hamilton
William (1626-)
DOCUMENTATION:
1. "The Complete Peerage," G. E. Cokayne, 1910 -
The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain
and the United Kingdom.
2. "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages," Burke's
Peerage, from Genealogy.com Family History: Notable British
Families, p. 460 (Ros).
3. "Edward I," Michael Prestwich, New Haven: Yale University Press,
1997 [in England, originally 1988 -Methuen], Yale English
Monarchs series.
4. "Robert Bruce and the Community of the Realm of Scotland," G. W.
S. Barrow, Edinburgh University Press, 1976 (2nd ed.).
5. "The Topographical, Statistical and Historical Gazetteer of
Scotland," Edinburgh: A. Fullarton & Co., 1856, pp. 121-122,
concerning Rathillet 'the house and hamlet' in the parish of
Kilmany, 2 volumes, 'And an Appendix, Containing the results
in Detail of the Census of 1851'.
6. "The Black Douglases," Michael Brown, East Linton: Tuckwell
Press, 1998.
7. "The Scots Peerage," Sir James Balfour Paul, ed., 1904-1914 (9 vols).
8. "Archaeological and Historical Collections rel. to the County
of Renfrew," Paisley: Alexander Gardner, 1890 (2 Volumes),
Vol. I, pp. 160-163; Vol. II, pp. 18-45.
9. "The Peerage of Scotland," Douglas, 494.
10. "A Genealogical Account of the Principal Families of Ayrshire,"
George Robertson, Irvine: Cunninghame Press/A. Constable & Co.,
Edinburgh, 1823 (3 Volumes), 262-263.
11. "History of the County of Ayrshire," James Paterson, 1847, 248-249.
12. "International Genealogical Index," IGI: published through LDS
website, www.familysearch.org, extracted on various dates.
13. "Genealogy of the Roberdeau Family," Roberdeau Buchanan,
Washington: Joseph L. Pearson, Printer, 1876, 19, 21,
incorporates the Robert Cunyngham MS, entitled 'Genologie of
the Right Honorable The Earl of Glencairn's Family', dated ca.
1710 with updated information to 20 October 1740, pages 10-24
of this publication.
14. "Wills from the Commisariot of Glasgow," Scottap,
www.scottap.com/family/Lanark/Commis/CommisGlasgow-F.html
extracted 1/4/2001.
15. "A History of The Society of Writers to Her Majesty's Signet,"
Fraser Tytler, W. Traquair Dickson; Charles Cook; T. G. Law
and F. J. Grant, Edinburgh: T & A Constable, 1890, [subtitle:]
With a List of the Members of the Society, from 1594 to 1890
and an Abstract of the Minutes, p. 124 (William Cunningham, or
Cunyngham).
16. "Scottish Documents," http://www.scottishdocuments.com/
provides index to wills from Scotland (Edinburgh Commissary
Court, Glasgow Commissary Court and other sources).
17. The History of the Name Edgar
http://www.geocities.com/edgarhistory/
cites Chalmers' "Caledonia"
______________________________
NOTES TO POST:
[1] CP XI, Ros of Wark (pp. 119-122). Page 119, note (g)
states,
' The barony of Wark, with a barony in Scotland, at
Sanquhar in Nithsdale, came as part of the Espec
inheritance to his father Robert, who had also a
grant of lands in Sowerby, Carlton and Upperby,
Cumberland, in compensation for lands lost in
Normandy (Rot. Lit. Claus., vol. i, p. 194). His
father settled Wark upon him and his heirs by a
lawful wife, by a charter (1225-26) confirmed by
Henry III, 15 Aug. 1227 (Cal. Charter Rolls, vol.
i, p. 56). The Cumberland property also came to
Robert of Wark (Rot. Lit. Claus., vol. ii, p. 197;
Cal. Patent Rolls, 1232-47, pp. 199, 219; Pipe
Rolls of Cumb. and Westmorland (C. & W. Ant. and
Arch. Soc.), p. 75. '
[2] John Ravilious, Hap Sutliff and D. Spencer Hines,
<MC Line, de Ros-Salvain-Soothill-Lacy-Farrar>, SGM,
3-5 August 2001.
[3] Wark was granted by King Edward to Robert's cousin and
overlord, William de Ros of Helmsley (d. bef 16 Aug
1316), Dec 1301 [CP XI:97, Ros of Helmsley].
[4] CP XI:122, note (a). The remainder of note (a)
states,
' In 1367 Gerard Salveyn, kinsman and h. of Margaret,
obtained an exemplification of letters patent,
said to have been dated at Clipstone, 6 Nov. 1312,
(not enrolled), pardoning to her her father's
forfeitures for adhering to the Scots, under
Edward I's promise to John Comyn and his men (Cal.
Patent Rolls, 1364-67, p. 41). Edward II was not at
Clipstone, 6 Nov. 1312. '
[5] See note [2] above.
[6] The History of the Name Edgar
http://www.geocities.com/edgarhistory/
cites Chalmers' "Caledonia".
[7] The Topographical, Statistical and Historical Gazetteer
of Scotland (Edinburgh: A. Fullarton & Co., 1856),
II:637, sub SANQUHAR.
[8] The History of the Name Edgar
http://www.geocities.com/edgarhistory/
further cites Nisbet's Heraldry as stating, concerning
the Edgar family of Wedderlie,
" And beside the Arms of Wedderlie are quartered with
figures like to these of Ross of Sanquhar -three water
budgets or much defaced, as on an old stone on the house
of Wedderlie supported by two greyhounds, and for crest,
a dexter hand holding a dagger, point downwards. Motto:
“Maun do it,” and on a compartment below, Salutem
disponit Deus. "
The arms of de Ros are well known: Gules three water
bougets argent [Caerlaverock Roll].
As to physical evidence of the de Ros family at Sanquhar,
God's Treasure-House in Scotland, by The Rev. J. Moir
Porteous (1876) cites M'Dowall's "History of Dumfries" :
http://www.crawford-john.org.uk/gatesof.htm
" Near to the water of Crawick stands the Church of
Sanquhar, a considerable and large fabrick, consisting
of a spacious church, and a stately quire, where are
the tombs of severall of the Lord Crichtons of Sanquhar,
wrought in freestone, and before them some Lords of the
name of Ross." The manse was built in 1755. '
* John P. Ravilious
Hal Bradley
Pages 48 & 49 present the barony for Great Torrington. Sibyl de Torrington inherited one-fifth of the barony. She married a Richard de Umfraville. "She was represented in 1227 by her son Gilbert... who died post 1242..." intimating that Richard had recently died.
Note 4 states, "The blazon of the Umfravilles of Devon, 'gules, cruislly a rose or,' suggests that they were related to the Umfravilles of Prudhoe, Northumberland, who bore either 'gules, cruislly a cinquefoil or' or 'or, a cinquefoil gules within a bordure azure with horseshoes gules'."
It is a remarkable coincidence that two separate Richard de Umfraville's, died circa 1226, both leaving sons named Gilbert who died after 1242. Is it possible that the barons of Prudhoe used a third blazon that was differentiated due to the inheritance of part of the barony of Great Torrington and that the unidentified wife of Richard de Umfraville of Prudhoe was Sibyl de Torrington? If not, is the identity of the wife of Richard de Umfraville, d. 1226 of Prudhoe, known?
Thanks for any help.
Hal Bradley
Jay
> Sander's "English Baronies", p. 73 gives the descent of the barons of Prudhoe. It includes Richard, brother and heir of Robert III. Richard died in 1226 leaving his son Gilbert, d. 1245. No wife is indicated for Richard.
Do you have who the parents (and grandparents if you have them) of
Richard and Robert III are? I don't have this info, but I do have in
my database a
Richard de umfraville b. circa 1163 d. 1226 the son of Odinel de
Umfraville and Alice de Lucy
his brothers
Robert de Umfraville
William de Umfraville
Richard de Umfraville
Gilbert de Umfraville
Odinel de Umfraville
But I don't know the order of their births or have enough information
to know what the was the progression of inheritence to figure out the
line.