I will limit my comments to the critical regions. This should
not be taken to imply that hte rest of the presented pedigrees
are valid.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> LINE 1:
> 03. Aisha [or dau of Muawiya, Caliph 661-680]
> = Marwan I ben Hakim, Caliph 683-5
> 04. name, sis of Abd-al-Malik, Caliph 685-705
Just because a muslim woman is a sister of a Caliph does not
imply that she had the same mother as the Caliph. This was not a
culture that practiced monogamy.
> = Muza ben Nasar [Nuseir], conqueror
> 05. Abd-al-Aziz [ibn Musa], d717
> 06. Aisha [or dau of Abdul Yazid al-Wallid Umayyade]
Why the "or dau. of" somebody else? Simple. It is because these
connections are nothing but groundless attempts to force a
Muhammadan lineage onto the Banu Qasi, which have no such
documented descent.
> = Fortun ibn Cassio
The only source even close to contemporary (and it is hundreds of
years later) gives a brief account of Cassius converting to
Islam, then says "he had Fortun and Fortun had Muza ibn Fortun
ibn Qasi". It is clear that Fortun was known to the pedigree
compiler simply as the patronymic of Muza, and Qasi was the
founder. At least one individual who studied this was not even
willing to accept that Fortun was son of Qasi, but rather viewed
Muza ibn Fortun ibn Qasi (the first historical member of the
family) as Muza son of Fortun, of the line of Cassius. (For
analogy, just because an Irishman is found as Murchad MacDoughal
O'Brien doesn't mean that Murchad was son of Brien.) More
important that whether Fortun was son or simply of the family of
Cassius, is the relevant point to this discussion - no mention is
made of his wife. None. Not in any source with any claim to
historical basis. At a later time, someone thought it important
for the Banu Qasi to be of Arab muslim descent - either for
genealogical purposes or to explain their use of muslim names,
but neither of these motivations proceeded from actual evidence
that such a marriage took place.
> 07. Muza ibn Fortun, governor of Saragoza, d788
> 08. Muza ibn Muza, governor of Saragoza, d863
> = Assona Iniguez de Pampelune
> 09. Lope [ibn Musa ibn Musa], gov of Saragoza (875)
> = Ayab al Bulatiya
> 10. Auria [Aurea] (dau)
> = Fortun Garces "el Monje" of Pampelune
There are no sources which identify the parentage of Oria, who is
only known by name from one source. The name Awriya appears
among the Banu Qasi, and this has led to speculation of a
connection, yet this name (like Fortun and Lupe) is part of the
Romano-Gothic heritage of the region, and would be expected to be
present in the families, regardless of intermarriage.
> 11. Onega
> = Abdallah, Emir of Spain 848-912, son of Muhammad I, Caliph, in
> Spain
> 12. Zayd
> 13. Zaydan ibn Zayd [Zedao Zada]
This is Chico's bag, but I was under the impression he did not
think the Abdallah atop the legendary Maya pedigree was the Emir
of Spain. Whoever one places atop, the conclusion cannot be
reached without a degree of speculation and hypothetical
connections, the likelihood of which I am withholding judgement
on until I see it all laid out.
> 14. Zaira
> = Lovesendo Ramirez de Leon
> 15. Abu-Nazir Lovesendiz, Cide de Leon
> = Unisco Godinez des Asturias
> 16. Hermigio Abunazar de Leon
> = Vivili Trutesendiz
> 17. Adosinda (dau)
> = Pelaio Gutierriz da Silva
Mattoso, in his study of this family, gives Ermigio no such daughter.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> LINE 2A:
> 11. Abdallah I, Emir of Spain 848-912
> = Onega Fortunez
Same problem as above here.
> 12. Zayd [ibn Abdallah]
> 13. Zaydan
> 14. Zaira
> = Lovesendo, son of Fethe,
Above you call him Lovesendo Ramirez (son of Ramiro) and here son
of Fethe. You can't have him be both. Again, as to whether the
Lovesendo atop the Maya pedigree is the same as the son of Fethe
is, as far as I have seen so far, a deduction rather than being
directly attested.
> son of Abeth al-Hasani, son of the
> Idrissid, al-Hasan al-Hajjam, son of Muhammed, son of al-Kassim, son
> of Idris II (792-828), son of Idris I (d792), son of Abdullah, son of
> al-Hasan al-Muthanna, son of al-Hasan (625-670), whose mother was
> Fatima, dau of Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam"
The number of speculations that go into this line is even
greater. Again, until you see it all laid out (presumably in
Chico's much anticipated summary book), it is rash to simply
reproduce this line.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> LINE 3:
> 18. Mohammed II [al-Mutamid, ? bro of # 17?] (1040-1095), Emir of
> Seville
> 19. Zayda (dau)
Zaida was daughter-in-law of Muhammad, not daughter.
> = Alfonso VI, King of Castile
> 20. Sancha
Sancha was daughter of Alfonso VI by Queen Isabella. That Queen
Isabella was identical to Zayda has been speculated, but is far
from certain.
> = Rodrigo "El Franco" Gonsalez de Lara
> 21. Rodrigo Rodriguez de Lara
> = Garcia de Azagra
Rodrigo Rodrigues de Lara was a genealogical invention, created
by Salazar y Castro as a placeholder betweer two Rodriguez
sisters, speculated to be de Lara, and El Franco, above, who was
a generation too early to be their father. In fact, these
sisters were children of Rodrigo Fernandez de Torono, and were
not Lara at all. By Rodrigo Gonzalez, the Infanta Sancha's
descent is extremely limited (in the fourth generation, there was
only one known individual Armengol Diaz de Haro).
> 22. Sancha de Lara
> = Gonzalo [II] Ruiz Giron (d1234)
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> LINE 4:
> 17. Abul-Kasim Muhammad [ibn Abbad al Mu'tamid] (d1095), Emir of
> Seville
> = I'tamid
> 18. Zaida (1075-1107), bapt & renamed Isabel
> =(1098) Alfonso VI, King of Castile-Leon
> etc.
Likewise leading to to Zaida through her father-in-law, this is
equally flawed.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> LINE 5:
> 01. Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam", d632
> 02. Kalthum
> = Utayba, son of Abu Lahab
> 03. dau [or dau of Marwan [& wife Aisha], son of Hakim, son of
> Abu-el-Asis]
> = Abd al-Malik
> 04. Abdul Yazid al-Wallid
> = Egilom, dau of Rodrigo de Balthes, a Visi-Gothic Spanish prince
> 05. Aisha
> = Fortun ibn Cassio
It hardly seems legitimate to give this same invented woman two
entirely different pedigrees, and then count them both among your
5 descents.
> 06. Muza ibn Fortun, governor of Saragoza, d788
> 07. Muza ibn Muza, governor of Saragoza, d863
> = Assona Iniguez de Pampelune
> 08. Lope [ibn Musa ibn Musa], gov of Saragoza (875)
> = Ayab al Bulatiya
> 09. Auria [Aurea]
> = Fortun of Pampelune
> 10. Onega
> = Aznar Sanchez de Larraun [son of Sancho Garces of Navarre &
> Leogundis Ordonez de Asturias] [her 2nd =]
There is no evidence to suggest the name of Sancho's wife. While
a sister of Alfonso III married a prince of Navarre, no source
tells which prince, and Sancho seems among the less likely.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> compiled by David Hughes, Rdavi...@AOL.com
> comments welcome
Remember when you draft your response, you welcomed comments.
taf
- The Maia family is descended from Zahadon, married
to Aragunte. Zahadon (att. 933) is Zahadon ibn Halafi,
and I identify him to Zahadon ``al Umawi'' attested
through a son in 1006/7.
- There is a Nasr/Nasrum (Nazeron) attested at about
the same time, which I take to be Zahadon's son.
- I consider Zahadon to be descended from the
al-Habibi line (settled in al-Andaluz) that originates
in Caliph al-Walid (``rey Aboali'' in 13th century
texts).
- I identify the first Lord of the Maia to Nasrum ibn
Leodesindo ibn Firhi [Nazeron [ibn] Leodesindo ibn
Ferhe]. Firhi is a very characteristic Quraysh name,
re Lévi Provençal. And due to several circumstantial
data supplemented by documentary evidence, I
cautiously suggest that the Maia family was
agnatically descended from the Idrissids.
Let me finish my book, please; I'll be working on it
this long holiday (this is Holy Week in Brazil).
fa
--- "Todd A. Farmerie" <farm...@interfold.com>
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Christian Settipani's latest book, cited below, has a section (pp. 112-116)
entitled "Aurea, épouse de Fortun," which contains a review of previous work
and an analysis of onomastic and marriage patterns. He presents three
plausible hypotheses about Aurea's ancestry, only one of which gives her
recent Muslim (Banu Qasi) ancestry.
-- Don Stone
Settipani, Christian. 2004. _La noblesse du Midi carolingien: Etudes sur
quelques grandes familles d’Aquitaine et du Languedoc du IXe au XIe siècles
(Toulousain, Périgord, Limousin, Poitou, Auvergne)._ Oxford: Unit for
Prosopographical Research. Occasional Publications, Vol. 5.
> 17. Hisham III, [last] Emir of Cordova, d1031
> 18. Almoravita
> = Velo Ingiguez
> 19. Ingio Velez
> 20. Ladrono Iniguez
> 21. Velo Ladronez
> 22. Juan Velez
It took me a while to find this, until I realized it was the Guevara
line. The most recent work I have seen on the family, that of Martinez
Ruiz, opens his article with a mention of the conflicting early
generations of this family. He then gives his account, starting with
Don Vela, the grandfather of Vela Iniguez. (As an aside, the line from
Vela down is given in Turton, where he calls this woman Urraca
Almoravit, and comments that while the nickname Almoravit suggests
muslim ancestry, he had been unable to find any indication of her
parentage.) Martinez Ruiz apparently rejects this marriage entirely,
instead showing Vela Iniguez married to Toda Lopez, daughter of Lope
Nunez de Viscaya, hence there appears to be no connection here either.
Martinez Ruiz, Julian. Filacion Troncal de los Senores de Guevara y
Onate. in Estudios Genealogicos, Heraldicos y Nobilarios en Honor de
Vicente Cadenas y Vicent. 1:511-24 (1978).
taf