Bures
Benjamin Hertzel
Today I found a brass relief plaque of a medieval knight at a shop here in
Minneapolis. At the base of the plaque was carved "Robert Bures, 1302,
Suffolk". Any idea who he was?
Benjamin
John Carmi Parsons
lands at Acton in Suffolk (where the original brass exists) served as
bailiff on the estates of Queen Eleanor of Castile in the 1280s. He was
subsequently knighted, like at least one other of Eleanor's former bailiffs,
Adam de Cretyng. He introduced into the queen's administration a relative,
Richard de Bures, who became one of her chief financial clerks and died in
1293. Don't be misled into thinking that we know a great deal about either
Robert or Richard. Just because they appear frequently in Eleanor's records
doesn't mean they appear with equal frequency elsewhere! Given the dates
of the two men's deaths I assume they were brothers, but there's no proof of
this.
John Parsons
Adrian Channing
Heraldry by Joseph Foster:-
QUOTE
"BURES, Sir Andrew (BOURES) - (E III. Roll) bore, ermine on a chief
dancettee sable two lyonceux rampant or; Ashmole and Parliamentary Rolls.
See Monumental Brass for Sir Robert.
UNQUOTE
The Brass shown in this book "Sir Robert de Bures (c 1302), In Acton
Church, Suufolk _After Waller_" has the same shield as Sir Andrew. I guess
that _After Waller_ means the illustration is a copy of one by Waller?
Adrian (Surrey, UK) ACha...@CompuServe.Com
Benjamin Hertzel
Thank you John,
On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, John Carmi Parsons wrote:
> Robert de Bures, who probably came from Great Bures in Essex and also held
> lands at Acton in Suffolk (where the original brass exists) served as
> bailiff on the estates of Queen Eleanor of Castile in the 1280s. He was
> subsequently knighted, like at least one other of Eleanor's former bailiffs,
> Adam de Cretyng.
Yes, I should have mentioned that the brass says SIR Robert Bures. Sorry
about that omission.
In my data base, I have a John Bures (died 1350) who married Hawise
Muscegros (daughter of Robert Muscegros and Agnes de Ferrers). John and
Hawise were the parents of Catherine Bures, who married Giles Beauchamp.
Do you know if this John Bures a relation to Sir Robert?
Benjamin
Adrian Channing
>
> In my data base, I have a John Bures (died 1350) who married Hawise
> Muscegros (daughter of Robert Muscegros and Agnes de Ferrers). John and
> Hawise were the parents of Catherine Bures, who married Giles Beauchamp.
>
> Do you know if this John Bures a relation to Sir Robert?
>
I am looking at Complete Peerage Vol V pp 305 (Ferrers) et seq., which
gives a different and rather complicated story, if I have read this
correctly:
Sir Robert de Muscegros/Mucegros (died by 9 Ed I) (whose mother was Cecily
and died 1301) of Stowell, Somerset etc and whose widow was Agnes (l 1281)
probably d of William Er Derby by his m2 to Margaret de Quency and left
Hawise; dau and heir. She had 3 husbands
1.) William (-bfr 30 Jun 1297 sp) de Mortimer of Bridgwater etc younger son
of Sir Roger de Mortimer of Wigmore, co Hereford. This m. had not been
consummated.
2.) Sir John Ferrers (20 Jun 1271 Cardiff-cAug 1312 Gascony, probably
poisoned) 1st Lord Ferrers of Chartley (cr 1299); Of Chartley, Staffs etc
s&h of Sir Robert de Ferrers of Chartley and formally Earl of Derby (who d
1279) by his m2 Alianore d of Sir Humphrey de Bohun of Kimbolton, Hunts etc
(s&h of Humphrey Earl of Hereford). He m. Hawise in c1300
3) Sir John de Bures (-Dec 1350)
Hawise was born 21 Dec 1276, living on 24 June 1340, but d. before Sir
John Bures.
There is a mention of a Robert de Bures. On 13 Sep 1294 Sir John Ferrers
had licence to demise (transfer) to Robert de Bures the manor of Chartley
for life of the said Robert.
and
In 1324 there is an inquisition re Robertus de Bures who held the manor of
Chartley for life, of the inheritance of Robert br. of John de Ferrers
(sons of Sir John), by the demise of John, son of Robert de Ferrers
I can not see a mention of Catherine Bures.
regards Adrian
Adrian (Surrey, UK) ACha...@CompuServe.Com
ray montgomery
what is the ancestry of this Robert muscesgros who is married to Agnes
Ferrers listed below!
Sincerely
RAY
On 6 Dec 1998 09:06:14 -0800 ja...@midas.millcomm.com (Benjamin Hertzel)
writes:
>
>Thank you John,
>
>On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, John Carmi Parsons wrote:
>
>> Robert de Bures, who probably came from Great Bures in Essex and
>also held
>> lands at Acton in Suffolk (where the original brass exists) served
>as
>> bailiff on the estates of Queen Eleanor of Castile in the 1280s. He
>was
>> subsequently knighted, like at least one other of Eleanor's former
>bailiffs,
>> Adam de Cretyng.
>
>Yes, I should have mentioned that the brass says SIR Robert Bures.
>Sorry
>about that omission.
>
>Muscegros (daughter of Robert Muscegros and Agnes de Ferrers). John
>and
>Hawise were the parents of Catherine Bures, who married Giles
>Beauchamp.
>
>Do you know if this John Bures a relation to Sir Robert?
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
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>
> To whom it may concern
> what is the ancestry of this Robert muscesgros who is married to Agnes
> Ferrers listed below!
> Sincerely
> RAY
|First off, Hawise Muscegros had two husbands, Sir john Ferrers of
Chartley and Sir John de Bures, father of Catherine.
Robert married Agnes Ferrers who was aunt of Hawise's Ferrers husband.
1. Sir Robert de Muscegros; b. before 1252; d. 27 December 1280.
2. Sir john de Muscegros of Charlton; b. 10 August 1232; d. 8 May 1275.
3. Cecily Avenal; d. 10 August 1301.
4. Sir Robert de Muscegros, of Charlton, Somerset; d. shortly before 29
January 1253/54; md. before 11 February 1220/21.
5. Hawise Malet of Curry Malet, Somerset.
6. Sir William Avenel; b. ca. Nov. 1202; d. 21 April 1236.
7. Aline.
10. Sir William malet of Curry malet, Somerset; d. ca. 1216.
11. Alice Basset of Headington.
This is from AR, line 189.
8. Richard de Muscegros ;b. before 1200; d. after 1239.
9. Alice Dyve.
16. Richard de Muscegros; d. ca. 1200.
17. Hilary Folet.
Houghton. "The Family of Muchgros." Trans. Birmingham Archaeological
Soc., xlvii (1921).
6. William Avenel of English Bicknor, Gloucs.; d. 1236.
12. Ralph Avenel; d. after 1190.
13. Margaret; d. before 1236.
24. Ralph Avenel of Sandhurst, Gloucs.; d. after 1174.
48. Robert Avenel of Sandhurst; d. after 1167.
Woodward MSS, Society of Genealogists, London which cites Bristol &
Gloucs. Arch. Soc. Trans. iv:313.
Kay Allen AG all...@pacbell.net
ray montgomery
RAY
U...@aol.com
ja...@midas.millcomm.com writes:
<< Today I found a brass relief plaque of a medieval knight at a shop here in
Minneapolis. At the base of the plaque was carved "Robert Bures, 1302,
Suffolk". Any idea who he was?
Benjamin
>>
Might this be your Robert??
Descendants of Robert de Bures
1 Robert de Bures
2 Alice de Bures
.. +Edmond Bryan
3 Thomas Bryan b: Bef. 1450 d: 11-Dec-1500 ENG
.. +Margaret Bowsey
4 Thomas Bryan b: Bef. 1470 d: Bef. 30-Jan-1516/17
.. +Margaret Bourgchier b: 1468 d: Abt. 1552
5 Francis Bryan b: 1490 d: 2-Feb-1549/50
.. +Phillippa Spice
6 Edmund Bryan
.. +Margaret Courtenay
*2nd Wife of Francis Bryan:
.. +Joan Fitzgerald b: IRL d: 2-Jan-1564/65
6 Francis Bryan b: Abt. 1549 Munster, IRL
.. +Ann Smith
5 Elizabeth Bryan d: Abt. 17-Jul-1546 London, ENG
.. +Nicholas Carew d: 3-Mar-1539/40 Tower Hill, London, ENG
6 Isabel Carew
.. +Nicholas Saunders d: 17-Dec-1587
6 Mary Carew
.. +Arthur Darcy b: Abt. 1505 d: 3-Apr-1561
6 Margaret Carew d: 1532
.. +Henry Guildford, Sir
4 Elizabeth Bryan
Always optimistic--Dave
John Harrison
The monumental brass of Sir Robert de Bures you saw is one of the finest
remaining examples of this art form. The catalog, "Monumental Brass
Facsimiles (Studio Brasses, 1991) describes the brass of Sir Robert as
follows:
"This brass has long been valued for the beauty of its engraving and
many regard it as the finest military brass in existence. Sir Robert's
successful career was based on royal service. He seems to have been one
of Edward I's main aides in the administration of Wales after Edward's
conquest of the country as well as being a member of the royal
bodyguard.
"The lion underfoot turns his head in the same way as on the brass of
the elder Sir John d'Abernoun, but has no spear shaft to bite upon. The
armour compares with that on the brass to Sir Wm. Setvans. In this
brass the mail coif and mittens cover the head & hands. The surcoat is
long and has a deep split up the front for ease in riding, but seems to
have been plain, not, as was more usual, worked with the arms of the
deceased. The thighs are covered by gamboised cuisses, a quilted
defence for the thigh, and the poleyns (knee caps) attached to them.
The sword belt has a plaited hanger, the most frequently depicted type
at this period (p.15)."
The information I have on the descendants of Sir Robert comes from
Bures of Suffolk, England. Chauncey R. Burr, NY, Aldus Printers, Inc.
1926. As with many genealogies of the period, it is comprehensive, but
I cannot attest to its accuracy--please remember the many warnings on
this list about secondary sources.
Hope this helps.
John Harrison
1. NICHOLAS DE1 BURES was born Abt. 1224 in Magna Bures, Suffolk,
England.
Notes for NICHOLAS DE BURES:
Bures of Suffolk, England. Chauncey R. Burr, NY, Aldus Printers, Inc.
1926. p. 3.
Children of NICHOLAS DE BURES are:
2. i. ROBERT DE2 BURES, b. Abt. 1250, Suffolk, England; d. September
1331, Acton Hall, Bures, Suffolk, England.
ii. JAMES DE BURES, b. Abt. 1250.
Generation No. 2
2. ROBERT DE2 BURES (NICHOLAS DE1) was born Abt. 1250 in Suffolk,
England, and died September 1331 in Acton Hall, Bures, Suffolk,
England. He married (1) ALICE. He married (2) HILLARY LE FERMER 1311,
daughter of SIR JOHN LE FERMER.
Notes for ROBERT DE BURES:
Knight Crusader about 1270
Lord of Foxherd Manor, Essex, Lord of Township of Acton 1316, Sheriff of
Suffolk.
Knight Templar of Jerusalem
Held manors of Magna Bures, Foxherd, and Westant.
"Robert and James his brother profer service of 1/4 part of a knight's
fee. --Parliament Writs.
Bures of Suffolk, England. Chauncey R. Burr, NY, Aldus Printers, Inc.
1926. p. 1.
More About ROBERT DE BURES:
Fact 2: Parish church of Acton (All Saints) in the Lady Chapel
Notes for ALICE:
Inquest post mortem, 30 Edward I.
Bures of Suffolk, England. Chauncey R. Burr, NY, Aldus Printers, Inc.
1926. p. 3.
Children of ROBERT BURES and ALICE are:
3. i. ANDREW DE3 BURES, b. Abt. 1302, Bures, Acton, Suffolk, England; d.
12 April 1360, Bures, Acton, Suffolk, England.
ii. WILLIAM DE BURES, b. Abt. 1303, Bures, Suffolk, England.
Notes for WILLIAM DE BURES:
Unmarried--a priest.
iii. MICHAEL DE BURES, b. Abt. 1304, Bures, Suffolk, England; d. Aft.
1373, Suffolk, England; m. MARY DE WHELNETHAM.
iv. JOHN DE BURES, b. Abt. 1305, Bures, Suffolk, England; m. ALICE DE
REPPS, Abt. 1320, Suffolk, England.
Generation No. 3
3. ANDREW DE3 BURES (ROBERT DE2, NICHOLAS DE1) was born Abt. 1302 in
Bures, Acton, Suffolk, England, and died 12 April 1360 in Bures, Acton,
Suffolk, England. He married ALICE DE REYDON Abt. 1320, daughter of
JOHN DE REYDON.
Notes for ANDREW DE BURES:
Succeeded to all lands of his father and step-mother in 1318. Lord of
many manors: Foxherd, Leyham, Bowthorp, Wychambrooke, Great
Waldingfield, Whersted, Reydon.
"...Andrew de Bures was lord of the manor of Foxherd, Essex, in 1286, at
which time Sir Walter FitzHumphrey of Pentlow conveyed this manor to him
along with the advowson of the church. In 1329 it had passed into the
possession of Edmund le Boteler, who in that year granted the manor and
advowson of Foxherd to Robert de Bures and Hillary his wife and their
heirs with remainder to Andrew de Bures, son of Robert de Bures and his
first wife Alice, and his heirs (Fleet of Fines)." Bures of Suffolk,
England. Chauncey R. Burr, NY, Aldus Printers, Inc. 1926. p. 3.
Buried in the chancel at Acton, inscription read "Hic iacet ANDREAS DE
BURES & ROBERTUS DE BURES filius ejusdem ANDREE militis, qui ANDREAS
obijt 12 die Aprilis anno dom. 1360 et dictus ROBERTUS obijt 7 die mens
Octob. ann. dom. 1361, quorum animabus propitietur Deus." Bures of
Suffolk, England. Chauncey R. Burr, NY, Aldus Printers, Inc. 1926. p.
5.
Notes for ALICE DE REYDON:
Brought with her dowery the manor at Bowthorp in Norfolk, Leyham,
Whersted, and Reydon, in Suffolk.
Children of ANDREW BURES and ALICE REYDON are:
4. i. ANDREW DE4 BURES, b. Abt. 1325, Bures, Acton, Suffolk, England; d.
1376, Suffolk, England.
ii. ROBERT DE BURES, b. Abt. 1335, Bures, Acton, Suffolk, England; d.
07 October 1361, England; m. JOAN DE SUTTON.
Generation No. 4
4. ANDREW DE4 BURES (ANDREW DE3, ROBERT DE2, NICHOLAS DE1) was born
Abt. 1325 in Bures, Acton, Suffolk, England, and died 1376 in Suffolk,
England. He married (1) ALICE SPENCER. He married (2) CECILY
CHAMBERLAIN.
Children of ANDREW BURES and ALICE SPENCER are:
5. i. ANDREW DE5 BURES, b. Abt. 1350, Suffolk or Essex, England.
ii. JOHN DE BURES, b. Abt. 1352, Bures, Acton, Suffolk, England; d.
Aft. 1418.
iii. MARGARET DE BURES, b. Abt. 1354, Bures, Acton, Suffolk, England;
m. WILLIAM SAMPSON.
iv. DAUGHTER DE BURES, b. Abt. 1356, Bures, Acton, Suffolk, England; m.
SHELTON.
Generation No. 5
5. ANDREW DE5 BURES (ANDREW DE4, ANDREW DE3, ROBERT DE2, NICHOLAS DE1)
was born Abt. 1350 in Suffolk or Essex, England. He married CATHERINE
CHILTREN.
Notes for ANDREW DE BURES:
Of Bromptons, Colne Engaine, Essex. Held court at Brompton's Sept.
1402.
Notes for CATHERINE CHILTREN:
Said to be the daughter of a Norman baron. --Burr (1926)
Child of ANDREW BURES and CATHERINE CHILTREN is:
6. i. WILLIAM DE6 BURES, b. Abt. 1370, Bromptons, Colne Engaine, Essex,
England.
Generation No. 6
6. WILLIAM DE6 BURES (ANDREW DE5, ANDREW DE4, ANDREW DE3, ROBERT DE2,
NICHOLAS DE1) was born Abt. 1370 in Bromptons, Colne Engaine, Essex,
England. He married ELIZABETH ROOS.
Notes for WILLIAM DE BURES:
Of Brompton's Manor, Essex
Bures of Suffolk, England. Chauncey R. Burr, NY, Aldus Printers, Inc.
1926. p. 4-5.
Notes for ELIZABETH ROOS:
Roos family owned Roos manor, Rodwinter, Essex, from 1350-1419.
Children of WILLIAM BURES and ELIZABETH ROOS are:
i. WILLIAM7 BURES, b. Abt. 1430, Foxherd, Essex, England; d. Aft. 1511,
Foxherd, Essex, England; m. JOAN MARKHAM.
Notes for WILLIAM BURES:
Succeeded to the Bures estates
Held court at Brompton's 1480 & Foxherd, 1486 when he recovered seisin
of the manor from Thomas, Earl of Ormond. Bures of Suffolk, England.
Chauncey R. Burr, NY, Aldus Printers, Inc. 1926. p. 4-5.
Notes for JOAN MARKHAM:
Bures of Suffolk, England. Chauncey R. Burr, NY, Aldus Printers, Inc.
1926. p. 4-5.
ii. ANDREW BURES, b. Abt. 1432, Foxherd, Essex, England.