Identity of John de Beauchamp, Papal envoy in 1363
Douglas Richardson
Some time ago, I discussed the marriages of John Beauchamp, of Powick,
co. Worcester (died 1389), which individual is known to have married
(1st) Joan de Cherleton and (2nd) Elizabeth ____. I stated that the
2nd marriage took place in or before 1363, based on records found in
the published Papal registers for that date which are assigned to John
Beauchamp of Powick.
This past month I had the opportunity to examine the published papal
registers again, as well as the published transcripts of the original
entries found in the registers of Pope Urban V. These entries
indicate that a certain John de Beauchamp, Knt., was sent in 1363 with
two other individuals by Edward the Black Prince as an envoy to the
Pope Urban V. On their arrival, the pope granted various indults to
John de Beauchamp and his wife, Elizabeth. The editor of the
published papal registers assigned some of these entries to John de
Beauchamp, of Powick. But, since John of Powick was only 25 years of
age in 1363, he would seem to be an odd choice for the Black Prince to
send as an envoy to the Pope.
While the published papal registers state that John de Beauchamp is
identified as "kinsman of the Earl of Warwick," as best I can
determine, the registers of Pope Urban V make no such identification.
Unfortunately, the two volumes of the registers of Pope Urbain V to
which I had access are completely unindexed, so I probably missed the
entries which refer to John de Beauchamp as "kinsman of the Earl of
Warwick."
According to the published papal petitions, John de Beauchamp
requested a papal indult to visit Denney Abbey in Cambridgeshire,
where his wife, Elizabeth's mother was a nun. Yet, the published
papal letters state that John and Elizabeth Beauchamp's daughter,
Elizabeth, is the person who was the nun at Denney Abbey. In this
case, I found the reference in Urban V's registers which mention
Elizabeth's mother, but did not find the reference to the daughter.
As for the identification of John de Beauchamp, I thought he would be
easily identified by checking the published Registers of Edward the
Black Prince. Indeed, various John de Beauchamps are named in these
volumes, including John de Beauchamp (brother of the Earl of Warwick)
and John de Beauchamp, of Holt, co. Worcester (a kinsman of the Earl
of Warwick). With the multiplicity of John de Beauchamp's, most of
whom are not assigned a residence, I found it difficult to quickly
determine which man might have been the papal envoy.
All the same, it is tempting to identify the papal envoy as John de
Beauchamp, of Holt, as he was born about 1319, and thus would have
been about 44 at the time of the papal visit. The Black Prince
clearly knew John de Beauchamp, of Holt, as indicated by the following
two records involving the manor of Hawridge, co. Buckingham, evidently
a holding of the Beauchamp family of Holt:
Register of Edward the Black Prince 1 (1930), pg. 57:
Date: 14 Mar. 1347. Order to John de Houton, the prince's yeoman and
keeper of his fees, to stay until the quinzaine of Trinity next the
demand which he is making against John de Beauchamp in the manor of
Harugge [Hawridge], and in the meantime to release on good security
any distress taken from him."
Register of Edward the Black Prince 4 (1933), pp. 399-400:
Date: 26 Oct. 1361. Order to Thomas Gerveis, keeper of the prince's
fees in the county of Bukyngham, - inasmuch as Isabel Beauchamp of
Holte has shewn to the prince a charter (copy enclosed) whereby
William Mauduth, sometime earl of Warrewik, granted the manor of
Haurugg [Hawridge] to a certain John de Beauchaump, her ancestor, to
be held of the earl and his heirs by certain services, and has
complained that the said Thomas, supposing the manor to be held of the
prince, has distrained her for homage and other services which she
says she is not bound to render to the prince…".
I'm unable to identify Isabel Beauchamp, of Holt, unless she is the
same person as Elizabeth, wife of the papal envoy in 1363. Indeed, I
find that a John and Isabel de Beauchamp of the diocese of Worcester
were granted a papal indult in 1345 (see below).
As for John de Beauchamp, of Holt, he subsequently became Esquire to
the Household of King Edward III and Steward of the Household under
King Richard II. In 1387, he was granted by King Richard II the
dignity of "peer and baron of the realm of England" as Johanni de
Beauchamp de Kyderminster (the first instance of a barony created by
patent).
As for the marital history of John de Beauchamp of Holt, Complete
Peerage states that he was "married between 1327 and 1373-4 [sic]" to
Joan, daughter and heiress of Robert le Fitz Wyth [see Complete
Peerage, 2 (1912): 45-46 (sub Beauchamp)]. My records show that Joan
le Fitz Wyth was born in 1352. If correct, Joan was surely a much
younger second wife, as John de Beauchamp was born about 1319, being
aged 8 at his father's death in 1327. They had a son and heir, John,
born about 1378, when his father was approximately 59 years of age.
I've found nothing else which might indicate the identity of the papal
envoy in 1363. However, given the chronology, the known assocation of
John de Beauchamp of Holt with Edward the Black Prince, and other
factors mentioned above, it seems likely that the envoy in 1363 was
John Beauchamp of Holt, rather than his much younger cousin, John
Beauchamp of Powick. If correct, it would mean that both John
Beauchamp, of Holt, and John Beauchamp, of Powick, had wives named
Elizabeth. This matter deserves further study.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
- - - - - - - - - - -
Cal. Papal Regs.: Letters 3 (1342-1362) (1897), pg. 161:
8 Kal. April 1345. John Beauchamp and Isabella his wife, of the
diocese of Worcester. Indult to choose confessors, who shall give
them, being penitent, plenary remission at the hour of death.
Cal. Papal Regs.: Letters 4 (1342-1362) (1897), pg. 3:
Date: 2 Kal. Sept. 1363. To Edward, Prince of Wales and Aquitaine.
The pope has received his envoys, Ostense, Bishop of Sarlat, John de
Bellocampo, knight, and Master Philip de Godeford, D.C.L. and has
given them more fully, along with these presents, a verbal answer to
be carried to the prince. [Indexed by editor pg. 552 sub "Beauchamp,
John de, knight (of Powick), envoy of Prince Edward to Urban V.")
Cal. Papal Regs.: Letters 4 (1362-1404) (1902), pg. 31:
Date: 3 Kal. Sept. 1363. To John de Bellocampo, knight, and Elisabeth
his wife, of the diocese of Worcester. Indult to enter, once a year,
with six honest matrons, the monasteries of Denney, in the diocese of
Ely, in which their daughter Elisabeth is a nun, and Newestede in that
of London [cf. J.T. Rosenthal, Nobles and the Noble Life 1295-1500
(1976): 182].
Cal. Papal Regs.: Letters 4 (1362-1404) (1902), pg. 36:
Date: 4 Kal. Dec. To John de Bellocampo, knight, and Elisabeth his
wife, of the diocese of Worcester. Indult to choose their confessor,
who may also give leave to religious of mendicant orders to eat
flesh-meat at the table of the said knight on lawful days [cf. J.T.
Rosenthal, Nobles and the Noble Life 1295-1500 (1976): 182].
Cal. Papal Regs.: Letters 4 (1362-1404) (1902), pg. 36:
17 Kal. Dec. 1363. Relaxation, during ten years, of a year and forty
days of enjoined penance to penitents who on the principal feasts of
the year visit and give alms for the repair of the chapel of
Trimpeleie, Kedermynstere.
- - - - - - -
Cal. Papal Regs.: Petitions 1 (1342-1419) (1896), pg. 457:
1363. John de Bellocampo, knight. For license to mendicant friars to
eat met in his presence, and in that of his wife Elizabeth. Granted
for six years. Avignon, Kal. Sept.
John de Bellocamp, knight, kinsman of the earl of Warwick. For
license that he and his wife Elizabeth may choose their confessors.
Granted for ten years.
The same. For plenary remission to them at the hour of death.
Granted.
The same. For a portable altar. Granted.
The same. Whereas the said Elizabeth's mother is an enclosed
Minoress, he prays for license that she may visit her mother,
accompanied by six fit persons. Granted, but she is not to east or
spend the night.
- - - - - - -
Cal. Papal Regs.: Petitions 1 (1342-1419) (1896), pg. 471:
Date: 1363. John de Bellocampo, knight, kinsman of the earl of
Warwick, and Elizabeth his wife. For an extension of the license of
six years to religious to eat meat at their table. Granted, for the
said John in perpetuity. Avignon, 4 Kal. Dec.
The same. For extension of the faculty to choose their confessors
for ten years to their life. Granted. Dated as above.
Cal. Papal Regs.: Petitions 1 (1342-1419) (1896), pg. 493:
Date: 1364. John de Bellocampo, knight, kinsman of the Earl of
Warwick. That he and Elizabeth his wife, and their household, may
have the sacraments administered to them by any fit priest, and in any
decent place. Granted for him and his wife. Avignon, 3 Non. May.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Urbain V (1362–1370): Lettres Communes 1 (1954), pg. 38.
Date: 30 Aug. 1363. "919. Johanni de Bellocampo, militi, et
Elizabet, ejus uxori, Wigornien. dioc., conceditur altare portatile."
Date: 30 Aug. 1363. "920. Eisdem conceditur ut missam, antequam
illucescat dies, liceat ipsis per proprium sacerdotem facere
celebrari."
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Urbain V (1362–1370): Lettres Communes 2 (1964), pg. 90:
Date: 30 Aug. 1363. "5676. Johanni de Bellocampo, militi, et
Elizabet, ejus uxori, Wigornien. dioc., licentia ingrediendi cum
decentibus et honesties vestibus ac sex matronis in monasteries de
Dennya, Elien. dioc., in quo mater dicte Elizabet monialis existit, et
de Neuwestede, Londonien. dioc., ord. s. Clare, semel in anno
dumtaxat, de assensu earum que ipsis monasteries prefuerint, dummodo
inibi non comedant, nec pernoctent, conceditur."
- - - - - - - -
Urbain V (1362–1370): Lettres Communes 2 (1964), pg. 220:
Date: 30 Aug. 1363. "6497. Johanni de Bello Campo, militi, et
Elizabeth, ejus uxori, Wigornien. dioc., conceditur ut, si forsan ad
loca ecclesiast. interdicto supposita declinare contigerit, liceat in
illis, clausis januis, excommunicates et interdictis exclusis, non
pulsatis campanis et summisa voce, ipsis cum familiaribus suis
domesticis, missam et alia divina off. facere celibrari."
Date: 30 Aug. 1363. "6498. Eisdem conceditur ut valeant eligere
confessorem, qui pro commissis ipsis debitam absolutionem impendat,
nisi forsan talia fuerint propter que Sed. Apost. sit merito
consulenda, presentibus post decennium minime valituris."
- - - - - - - - -
Urbain V (1362–1370): Lettres Communes 2 (1964), pg. 222:
Date: 1 Sep. 1363. "6515. Johanni de Bello Campo, militi, et
Elizabet, ejus uxori, Wigornien. dioc., conceditur ut confessor suus,
cum frequenter religiose persone ord. mendicantium declinent ad mensam
hospitiumque suum, possit eisdem personis licentiam concedere vescendi
carnibus in hospitio dicto, illis diebus dumtaxat quibus esus carnium
communiter prohibitus non existit, presentibus post sex annos minime
valituris."
Chris Phillips
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Some time ago, I discussed the marriages of John Beauchamp, of Powick,
> co. Worcester (died 1389), which individual is known to have married
> (1st) Joan de Cherleton and (2nd) Elizabeth ____. I stated that the
> 2nd marriage took place in or before 1363, based on records found in
> the published Papal registers for that date which are assigned to John
> Beauchamp of Powick.
Thanks for posting those interesting extracts.
I'm not sure how to resolve the rather confusing evidence, but at any rate
it looks impossible for the 1345 item to relate to John Beauchamp of Powick:
> Cal. Papal Regs.: Letters 3 (1342-1362) (1897), pg. 161:
> 8 Kal. April 1345. John Beauchamp and Isabella his wife, of the
> diocese of Worcester. Indult to choose confessors, who shall give
> them, being penitent, plenary remission at the hour of death.
According to my notes the Powick John was said to be aged 23 years and more
in 1362, which would make him only a small child in 1345. Moreover, as
discussed in April, there was what looks like a pre-marital settlement on
him and his first wife Joan de Cherleton in April or May 1351.
Which also makes it difficult for him to have a daughter, by a subsequent
marriage, old enough to be a nun in 1363. But maybe the daughter is just a
misinterpretation, and it was the mother-in-law who was a minoress
(whichever John Beauchamp she was the mother-in-law of).
On another tack, if there were another couple named John and
Isabella/Elizabeth at large in the diocese of Worcester, and if it were this
_other_ couple that the minoress belonged to, how would that affect the
problem of identifying the wife of John Beauchamp of Powick?
In January 2001 you wrote:
<<
I've considered the possibility that Elizabeth de Beauchamp might be
the daughter of Nicholas de Pever (or Peyvre), Knt., who held the
manor of Willian, co. Hertford at his death in 1361. However,
according to VCH Bedford 2 (1912): 440 and VCH Buckingham 3 (1925):
394, Sir Nicholas Pever's widow, Avice, married in 1366 or 1367
William de Clopton. Since Elizabeth de Beauchamp's mother was clearly
an enclosed nun in 1363, she presumably would not be the same person
as Sir Nicholas Pever's widow, Avice de Clopton.
>>
If the minoress belonged to another Elizabeth, wife of John Beauchamp (and
equally if the interest in William does belong to the Powick couple), this
objection to the Pever idea would evaporate, wouldn't it?
Chris Phillips
> says she is not bound to render to the prince.".
> Urbain V (1362-1370): Lettres Communes 1 (1954), pg. 38.
>
> Date: 30 Aug. 1363. "919. Johanni de Bellocampo, militi, et
> Elizabet, ejus uxori, Wigornien. dioc., conceditur altare portatile."
> Date: 30 Aug. 1363. "920. Eisdem conceditur ut missam, antequam
> illucescat dies, liceat ipsis per proprium sacerdotem facere
> celebrari."
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Urbain V (1362-1370): Lettres Communes 2 (1964), pg. 90:
>
> Date: 30 Aug. 1363. "5676. Johanni de Bellocampo, militi, et
> Elizabet, ejus uxori, Wigornien. dioc., licentia ingrediendi cum
> decentibus et honesties vestibus ac sex matronis in monasteries de
> Dennya, Elien. dioc., in quo mater dicte Elizabet monialis existit, et
> de Neuwestede, Londonien. dioc., ord. s. Clare, semel in anno
> dumtaxat, de assensu earum que ipsis monasteries prefuerint, dummodo
> inibi non comedant, nec pernoctent, conceditur."
>
> - - - - - - - -
> Urbain V (1362-1370): Lettres Communes 2 (1964), pg. 220:
>
> Date: 30 Aug. 1363. "6497. Johanni de Bello Campo, militi, et
> Elizabeth, ejus uxori, Wigornien. dioc., conceditur ut, si forsan ad
> loca ecclesiast. interdicto supposita declinare contigerit, liceat in
> illis, clausis januis, excommunicates et interdictis exclusis, non
> pulsatis campanis et summisa voce, ipsis cum familiaribus suis
> domesticis, missam et alia divina off. facere celibrari."
>
> Date: 30 Aug. 1363. "6498. Eisdem conceditur ut valeant eligere
> confessorem, qui pro commissis ipsis debitam absolutionem impendat,
> nisi forsan talia fuerint propter que Sed. Apost. sit merito
> consulenda, presentibus post decennium minime valituris."
>
> - - - - - - - - -
> Urbain V (1362-1370): Lettres Communes 2 (1964), pg. 222:
Douglas Richardson
"Chris Phillips" <c...@medievalgenealogy.org.uk> wrote in message news:<bj7s25$fb1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> Douglas Richardson wrote:
> > Some time ago, I discussed the marriages of John Beauchamp, of Powick,
> > co. Worcester (died 1389), which individual is known to have married
> > (1st) Joan de Cherleton and (2nd) Elizabeth ____. I stated that the
> > 2nd marriage took place in or before 1363, based on records found in
> > the published Papal registers for that date which are assigned to John
> > Beauchamp of Powick.
>
>
> Thanks for posting those interesting extracts.
>
> I'm not sure how to resolve the rather confusing evidence, but at any rate
> it looks impossible for the 1345 item to relate to John Beauchamp of Powick:
>
> > Cal. Papal Regs.: Letters 3 (1342-1362) (1897), pg. 161:
> > 8 Kal. April 1345. John Beauchamp and Isabella his wife, of the
> > diocese of Worcester. Indult to choose confessors, who shall give
> > them, being penitent, plenary remission at the hour of death.
>
> According to my notes the Powick John was said to be aged 23 years and more
> in 1362, which would make him only a small child in 1345. Moreover, as
> discussed in April, there was what looks like a pre-marital settlement on
> him and his first wife Joan de Cherleton in April or May 1351.
The 1345 entry could not apply to the Powick man. But conceivably it
could apply to John de Beauchamp, of Holt, who likely had an earlier
marriage than his known late date marriage to Joan le FitzWyth.
I believe that the papal envoy was actually John de Beauchamp, of
Holt, for a couple of other reasons which I failed to include in my
earlier post. According to the papal registers, the envoy was a
knight. To be a knight in the medieval period, it required a man to
hold approximately three to five manors. John de Beauchamp, of Holt,
would seem to fit this prerequisite. I know he held Holt, co.
Worcester, as well as Hawridge, co. Buckingham. At some point, he
also evidently held Kidderminster, co. Worcester.
Furthermore, in the rapid succession of indults, the Pope granted two
unusual ones to John de Beauchamp and his wife as follows:
Cal. Papal Regs.: Petitions 1 (1342-1419) (1896), pg. 457:
1363. John de Bellocampo, knight. For license to mendicant friars to
eat met in his presence, and in that of his wife Elizabeth. Granted
for six years. Avignon, Kal. Sept.
- - - - - - -
Cal. Papal Regs.: Petitions 1 (1342-1419) (1896), pg. 471:
Date: 1363. John de Bellocampo, knight, kinsman of the earl of
Warwick, and Elizabeth his wife. For an extension of the license of
six years to religious to eat meat at their table. Granted, for the
said John in perpetuity. Avignon, 4 Kal. Dec.
These two indults suggest that John de Beauchamp was somehow
associated with a religious house which was very close to his home.
In fact, I find that right after John Beauchamp and Elizabeth his wife
were granted these various indults, another one was granted as
follows:
Cal. Papal Regs.: Letters 4 (1362-1404) (1902), pg. 36:
17 Kal. Dec. 1363. Relaxation, during ten years, of a year and forty
days of enjoined penance to penitents who on the principal feasts of
the year visit and give alms for the repair of the chapel of
Trimpeleie, Kedermynstere.
I do not know what the chapel of "Trimpeleie" in Kidderminster was,
but John de Beauchamp could well have been its patron. If John de
Beauchamp resided at Kidderminster, and if this chapel was nearby, it
could explain why "religious" and "mendicant friars" might be eating
at his table. The original request for the indult for the chapel of
"Trimpeleie" came from a priest, by the way, not John de Beauchamp.
However, it seems a good bet that John de Beauchamp brought the
petition for "Trimpeleie chapel" with him from England and turned it
in with his requests for own indults.
> Which also makes it difficult for him to have a daughter, by a subsequent
> marriage, old enough to be a nun in 1363. But maybe the daughter is just a
> misinterpretation, and it was the mother-in-law who was a minoress
> (whichever John Beauchamp she was the mother-in-law of).
I agree on both points. However, we are dealing with registered
copies, not the originals. It would seem a clerical error of some
nature was made as to who was the nun at Denney.
> On another tack, if there were another couple named John and
> Isabella/Elizabeth at large in the diocese of Worcester, and if it were this
> _other_ couple that the minoress belonged to, how would that affect the
> problem of identifying the wife of John Beauchamp of Powick?
>
> In January 2001 you wrote:
> <<
> I've considered the possibility that Elizabeth de Beauchamp might be
> the daughter of Nicholas de Pever (or Peyvre), Knt., who held the
> manor of Willian, co. Hertford at his death in 1361. However,
> according to VCH Bedford 2 (1912): 440 and VCH Buckingham 3 (1925):
> 394, Sir Nicholas Pever's widow, Avice, married in 1366 or 1367
> William de Clopton. Since Elizabeth de Beauchamp's mother was clearly
> an enclosed nun in 1363, she presumably would not be the same person
> as Sir Nicholas Pever's widow, Avice de Clopton.
> >>
>
> If the minoress belonged to another Elizabeth, wife of John Beauchamp (and
> equally if the interest in William does belong to the Powick couple), this
> objection to the Pever idea would evaporate, wouldn't it?
>
Yes, I agree. I've since revised my statements in the Plantagenet
Ancestry manuscript. I now state that Elizabeth, 2nd wife of John de
Beauchamp, of Powick, could possibly have been the daughter of
Nicholas de Pever. I've removed that statement that this Elizabeth's
mother was an enclosed nun in 1363. If the papal envoy in 1363 was
John de Beauchamp, of Holt, it would be his mother-in-law who was the
nun in 1363, not the mother-in-law of John de Beauchamp, of Powick.
> Chris Phillips
Ian Cairns
news:5cf47a19.03090...@posting.google.com...
> My comments are intersperced below. DR
>
> "Chris Phillips" <c...@medievalgenealogy.org.uk> wrote in message
news:<bj7s25$fb1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> > Douglas Richardson wrote:
<snip>
> Cal. Papal Regs.: Letters 4 (1362-1404) (1902), pg. 36:
> 17 Kal. Dec. 1363. Relaxation, during ten years, of a year and forty
> days of enjoined penance to penitents who on the principal feasts of
> the year visit and give alms for the repair of the chapel of
> Trimpeleie, Kedermynstere.
>
> I do not know what the chapel of "Trimpeleie" in Kidderminster was,
> but John de Beauchamp could well have been its patron. If John de
> Beauchamp resided at Kidderminster, and if this chapel was nearby, it
> could explain why "religious" and "mendicant friars" might be eating
> at his table. The original request for the indult for the chapel of
> "Trimpeleie" came from a priest, by the way, not John de Beauchamp.
> However, it seems a good bet that John de Beauchamp brought the
> petition for "Trimpeleie chapel" with him from England and turned it
> in with his requests for own indults.
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=379005&Y=278265&A=Y&Z=3
may point the way to Trimpley
Whence
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~attwood/attwood_by_robinson.htm
contains a transcript of:
THE
ATTWOOD FAMILY
WITH
HISTORIC NOTES & PEDIGREES
By JOHN ROBINSON
Author of
"Descriptive Guide to the Lough and Noble Models of Busts and Statuary;"
"The Delaval Papers;" "The Legends and Traditions of the Coast;" "Past
Vicars of Newcastle;" Sunderland Worthies;"
Etc., etc.
Eighty Illustrations
PRINTED FOR PRIVATE CIRCULATION,
BY HILLS AND COMPANY, 19 FAWCETT STREET, SUNDERLAND
1903.
with
"In the reign of Edward III. (1327) is mentioned the seat of the Attwoods at
Wolverley. On the death of Sir John Attwood in Richard II.'s time, his lands
in Gloucestershire passed to his heir, John Beauchamp, of Holt, the son of
his daughter. In Worcester Cathedral is an altar tomb on which are the
effigies of Lord Beauchamp, of Holt, and his wife, daughter of the above Sir
John Attwood. Beauchamp was beheaded in 1388, the year of the famous battle
of Chevy Chase. In the Church of Holt are the arms of William de Bois, Abbot
of Evesham, with an Abbot's mitre. He received his pallium from Pope Clement
VI., at Avignon, France. The arms of the De Bois are the same as those of
the Attwoods, as seen in Southwick Church. Nash, in his History of
Worcester, says the Attwoods of Wolverley were the most ancient family in
the county. Sometimes they are called from the Latin De Bosco, and from the
French De Bois. One of the family founded the Chantry of Trimpley, and had
considerable estates in Kidderminster, Rushock, Nordroyke, Worcester, and
other parts of the country. Their arms were a lion rampant with a double
tail. The Attwoods descended from this ancient family, and our North Country
Branch of the house were direct descendants from the pious Sir John Attwood,
so called by Bishop Wakefield. He was a generous friend of the Church, and
endowed the same with lands in every parish where he had possessions. But
the alliances of the Attwoods in the great families of the Kingdom did not
cease in the days of the Plantagenets, the Capets of France, or the Houses
of Beauchamp and Dudley. The grandfather of Mr. Edward Attwood, of
Southwick, married in 1716, Rachel Maria Gaunt, who was a descendant of
Ralph Gaunt, Lord of alost, Flanders, and a descendant of the family of "Old
John of Gaunt, time honoured Lancaster".
I sit back and wait for the Chevy Chase jokes...
Regards
Ian
Douglas Richardson
As a followup to Ian Cairns' good post, I had a chance to examine the
available records of the Beauchamp family of Holt, co. Worcester
today. Surprisingly, it appears that there was an extra generation of
this family which was entirely overlooked by the editor of Complete
Peerage, he having collapsed two John de Beauchamps into one
individual. The two successive generations of John de Beauchamps are
separated into their respective lives and marriages below. It appears
it was the senior John de Beauchamp who was the papal envoy in 1363.
And, it was the junior John de Beauchamp who was created Lord
Beauchamp of Kidderminster in 1387. The material not only corrects
Complete Peerage, but also the index of the published Papal Registers,
the editor of which mistakenly identified the 1363 papal envoy as John
Beauchamp, of Powick, a distant kinsman of this family.
The two successive John de Beauchamp's listed below are in the
ancestry of one colonial immigrant, namely Jane Haviland, as well as
H.R.H. Charles, Prince of Wales.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
BEAUCHAMP FAMILY OF HOLT, CO. WORCESTER:
I. JOHN BEAUCHAMP, Knt., of Holt, co. Worcester, Hawridge, co.
Buckingham, etc., Knight of the Shire for Worcestershire, 1352, son
and heir of Richard de Beauchamp, of Holt, co. Worcester, by his wife,
Eustache, born about 1319 (aged 8 in 1327). He married before 8 Kal.
Apr. 1345 (date of indult) ISABEL (or ELIZABETH) ATTWOOD, daughter of
Robert Attwood, Knt. They had three sons, John, Knt. [Lord Beauchamp
of Kidderminster], William, and Thomas, and one daughter, Elizabeth.
He was in the sea fight at Sluys in 1340, and served in the French
wars "from the time of the passage to Normandy all the while the king
was abroad." In 1343 he and his wife, Isabel, received a papal indult
for plenary remission. He fought in the king's company at Crecy, and
was subsequently at the siege of Calais. He returned to England by
Michaelmas 1348, at which time he bought a small estate at Hanley
Child, and settled it on himself and his wife, Isabel, for life, with
successive remainders to his sons, William and Thomas. Afterwards he
went back to the wars in France, and seems to have served in the
Poitiers campaign. In 1357 he obtained a grant of £12 yearly for his
good service. In 1363 he served as a papal envoy for Edward the Black
Prince. SIR JOHN DE BEAUCHAMP died before 1367.
References:
Cal. Papal Regs.:Petitions 1 (1342-1419) (1896): 457, 471, 493. Cal.
Papal Regs.: Letters 3 (1342-1362) (1897): 161; 4 (1342-1362) (1897):
3, 31, 36. VCH Worcester 3 (1913): 403 404 (cites Nash, I, 600).
Register of Edward the Black Prince 1 (1930): 57 (Date: 14 Mar. 1347.
Order to John de Houton, the prince's yeoman and keeper of his fees,
to stay until the quinzaine of Trinity next the demand which he is
making against John de Beauchamp in the manor of Harugge [Hawridge],
and in the meantime to release on good security any distress taken
from him."); 4 (1933): 399-400 (Date: 26 Oct. 1361. Order to Thomas
Gerveis, keeper of the prince's fees in the county of Bukyngham, -
inasmuch as Isabel Beauchamp of Holte has shewn to the prince a
charter (copy enclosed) whereby William Mauduth, sometime earl of
Warrewik, granted the manor of Haurugg [Hawridge] to a certain John de
Beauchaump, her ancestor, to be held of the earl and his heirs by
certain services, and has complained that the said Thomas, supposing
the manor to be held of the prince, has distrained her for homage and
other services which she says she is not bound to render to the
prince…"). Urbain V (1362–1370): Lettres Communes 1 (1954): 38; 2
(1964): 90, 220, 222. A. de Orleton Cal. of Reg. of Adam de Orleton
Bishop of Worcester 1327 1333 (Pub. Worcestershire Hist. Soc. n.s. 10)
(1979): 56, 205.
II. JOHN BEAUCHAMP, Knt., of Holt and Merrington (in Elmley Lovett),
co. Worcester, Hawridge, co. Buckingham, etc., son and heir of above,
Esquire of the King's Chamber, Justice of North Wales, Steward of the
Household to King Richard II, son and heir. He married about 1370
JOAN FITZ WITH, daughter and heiress of Robert Fitz With. She was
born 25 Mar. 1352. They had one son, John, Knt. [2nd Lord Beauchamp
of Kidderminster]. He served under John of Gaunt in the Spanish
campaign of 1372. In 1373, as "John de Beauchamp, the king's esquire
(armigero)," he and his heirs were granted a yearly fair "in the place
called ‘Le Rode' in the parish of Holte, co. Worcester." He was
granted by King Richard II the dignity of "peer and baron of the realm
of England" as Johanni de Beauchamp de Kyderminster (the first
instance of a barony created by patent) 10 Oct. 1387. In 1384 he
obtained a license from the king of all the temporalities of the Alien
Priory at Astley, co. Worcester, which has been granted him by the
abbot of St. Taurinus in Normandy, for a term of many years on payment
of a large sum of money. In 1385 he was knighted in the Scottish
expedition. He acquired the manor of Kidderminster Burnell, co.
Worcester from Hugh Burnell, and, in 1385-6, the reversion of the
manor of Kidderminster Biset, co. Worcester from Walter Romsey, Knt.
In 1385-6 two ponds stocked with fish were granted to him for life by
his cousin, Thomas de Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick. His wife, Joan, was
living in 1386. SIR JOHN BEAUCHAMP, 1st Lord Beauchamp of
Kidderminster, with two others, was impeached by parliament of treason
at the instance of the Lords Appellant, and was beheaded on Tower Hill
12 May 1388, and was buried in Worcester Cathedral, his honours
forfeited. In 1389, on payment of the sum of 1,200 marks, his manor
"called Astley Priory" and other lands were granted to his cousin,
Thomas de Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick.
References:
VCH Worcester 2 (1906): 181-182; 3 (1913): 109, 160-162 (arms of
Beauchamp of Kidderminster: Gules a fesse between six martlets or),
403 404, 504; 4 (1924): 338. D.N.B. 2 (1908): 29. Cal. IPM 7 (1909):
7. C.P. 2 (1912): 46. Cal. Charter Rolls 5 (1916): 228. VCH
Buckingham 3 (1925): 367-368. VCH Warwick 6 (1951): 46.
Ed Mann
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@earthlink.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: Identity of John de Beauchamp, Papal envoy in 1363
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> The two successive John de Beauchamp's listed below are in the
> ancestry of one colonial immigrant, namely Jane Haviland, as well as
> H.R.H. Charles, Prince of Wales.
I have the line to Jane Haviland (below), but can someone briefly show the line to Prince Charles?
Selected Descendants of John de Beauchamp
1 Sir John de Beauchamp aka: Knt. ref #: (see notes) 1319 - 1367
+Isabel Attwood aka: Elizabeth Attwood ref #: (see notes)
2 Sir John de Beauchamp aka: Knt. / 1st Baron Beauchamp of Kydderminster ref #: Ä197-31 - 1388
+Joan le FitzWyth ref #: (PA179:5) 1352 - 1383
3 Sir John Beauchamp aka: Knt. / 2d Baron Beauchamp of Kydderminster ref #: Ä197-32 1376/77 - 1420
+Isabel Ferrers ref #: PA179:8 - 1410
4 Margaret Beauchamp ref #: (PA180:7) 1400 -
+Sir John Wysham aka: Knt. ref #: (PA180:7) - 1432
5 Alice Wysham ref #: PA180:6 - 1487
+John de Gyse aka: John Guise ref #: (PA180:6) 1430 - 1485
6 Sir John Gyse aka: Knt. / John Guise ref #: PA180:5 - 1501
+Anne Berkeley ref #: (PA180:5)
7 John Gyse aka: John Guise ref #: PA181:4 1485 - 1556
+Tacy Grey aka: Tacy de Grey ref #: (PA181:4) 1490 - 1558
8 William Gyse ref #: PA181:3 1514 - 1574
+Mary Rotsey ref #: (PA181:3) - 1558
9 John Gyse ref #: PA181:2 1540 - 1587/88
+Jane Pauncefoot ref #: (PA181:2) - 1587
10 Elizabeth Gyse ref #: PA181:1 1576 -
+Robert Haviland ref #: (PA181:1) 1576/77 - 1648
11 Jane Haviland ref #: (PA181:1) 1612 - 1639
Reference shown is only one of possibly several sources for this
individual. Not all data shown is necessarily from this source.
References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of
the Princess of Wales_, [page].
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
NK1 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_One_, [page].
NK2 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_Two_, [page].
O = Hardy, Colonial_Families_of_the_Southern_States_of_America, [pg].
PA = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, 2d ed. [page:para].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat lector.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.
WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat lector.
WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page] Caveat lector.
> prince."). Urbain V (1362-1370): Lettres Communes 1 (1954): 38; 2
Douglas Richardson
Thanks so much for taking the time to post Jane Haviland's descent
from the two John de Beauchamp's of Holt, co. Worcester. You're a
definite "plus" asset to the newsgroup! Keep up the good work.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
edl...@earthlink.net ("Ed Mann") wrote in message news:<006301c37486$02ca7c10$6401a8c0@ed>...
> <edited>
>
> FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
>
> Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@earthlink.net
>
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Jay
Holt line, John Beauchamp, son of William de Beauchamp (d. 1268) and
Isabel Mauduit?
Also has their been any progress in finding identity of the wife of
William and Isabel's son Walter-progenitor of the Powyck branch of
Beauchamps?
_Jay
> prince?"). Urbain V (1362?1370): Lettres Communes 1 (1954): 38; 2
> (1964): 90, 220, 222. A. de Orleton Cal. of Reg. of Adam de Orleton
> Bishop of Worcester 1327 1333 (Pub. Worcestershire Hist. Soc. n.s. 10)
> (1979): 56, 205.
>
> II. JOHN BEAUCHAMP, Knt., of Holt and Merrington (in Elmley Lovett),
> co. Worcester, Hawridge, co. Buckingham, etc., son and heir of above,
> Esquire of the King's Chamber, Justice of North Wales, Steward of the
> Household to King Richard II, son and heir. He married about 1370
> JOAN FITZ WITH, daughter and heiress of Robert Fitz With. She was
> born 25 Mar. 1352. They had one son, John, Knt. [2nd Lord Beauchamp
> of Kidderminster]. He served under John of Gaunt in the Spanish
> campaign of 1372. In 1373, as "John de Beauchamp, the king's esquire
> (armigero)," he and his heirs were granted a yearly fair "in the place
> called ?Le Rode' in the parish of Holte, co. Worcester." He was
Chris Phillips
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> As a followup to Ian Cairns' good post, I had a chance to examine the
> available records of the Beauchamp family of Holt, co. Worcester
> today. Surprisingly, it appears that there was an extra generation of
> this family which was entirely overlooked by the editor of Complete
> Peerage, he having collapsed two John de Beauchamps into one
> individual. The two successive generations of John de Beauchamps are
> separated into their respective lives and marriages below. It appears
> it was the senior John de Beauchamp who was the papal envoy in 1363.
> And, it was the junior John de Beauchamp who was created Lord
> Beauchamp of Kidderminster in 1387. The material not only corrects
> Complete Peerage, but also the index of the published Papal Registers,
> the editor of which mistakenly identified the 1363 papal envoy as John
> Beauchamp, of Powick, a distant kinsman of this family.
Thanks for those further interesting details.
I still haven't quite straightened out in my own mind which of the various
references we've been discussing relate to which of the 3 John Beauchamps
(two of Holt, and one of Powick), and I'm a bit confused about the Attwood
connection.
You have John marrying by 1345 Isabella/Elizabeth the daughter of Robert
Attwood, but the extracts on the web page cited by Ian Cairns make her the
daughter of John Attwood, who is said by one of them (Nash's Worcestershire)
to have died in 15 Richard II (1391 or 1392) and to have been succeeded by
his grandson John Beauchamp. I noticed that the extracts conclude with
Grazebrook casting doubt on the Beauchamp-Attwood marriage altogether. At
any rate, John Beauchamp the younger was dead by 1391, so he couldn't have
succeded an Attwood grandfather at that time.
The extracts from the papal register seem to tie together Kidderminster with
the John and Elizabeth who were connected with Denney. I had a quick look at
the account of Denney in the Cambridgeshire VCH (vol. 2, p. 295), and it's
interesting to see that in 1351 there was a nun there named Emma Beauchamp.
VCH identifies her "almost certainly" with the first abbess of Bruisyard,
Suffolk (founded in the mid 1360s) and possibly as "Emma", abbess of
Waterbeach in 1348. It goes on to discuss the licence for John Beauchamp and
Elizabeth to visit their "daughter" Elizabeth, there, suggesting that Emma
may have been John's sister (and thinking that John was probably JB of
Powick).
Perhaps the presence of Emma at Denney might explain why Elizabeth chose to
go there, whether Emma was her aunt or her son-in-law's sister. VCH
Worcestershire (vol. 3, p. 404) does mention a daughter of the elder John
Beauchamp called Elizabeth, who had a grant towards the maintenance of
herself her nephew in 1390. Perhaps that makes it less likely that the
minoress was the couple's daughter?
I'm still confused by the appearance of Isabel Beauchamp of Holt in 1361,
who seems to have been a Beauchamp by birth judging from her reference to
her ancestor John de Beauchamp. Is this the same woman as the daughter
Elizabeth who appears in 1390?
And finally, is there any possibility that the John and Elizabeth Beauchamp
who appear in the record from the 1370s you cited, in connection with
Willian, Hertfordshire, are really the Holt couple rather than the Powick
couple? VCH doesn't seem entirely definite about the elder John Beauchamp
dying by 1367, and in a way it seems natural that it would be the same
couple who were connected with Denney Abbey. But then I can't see why the
Attwoods would have Hertfordshire interests...
Chris Phillips