bonville family shute and chewton devon 1400 1491
tish
thank you for the information. that you have sent to me. but with
lord william bonvilles
son john bonville. what i need is evidence that he was illegitimate.
so if i have to find out who the real mother was i either need his
mums will or deeds
to the property. also i need john bonvilles coat of arms this would
tell me if he was illegitimate.
is there anyway that you could prove this.
thank you for your help
patricia
Renia
> to mr stewart
>
>
> thank you for the information. that you have sent to me. but with
> lord william bonvilles
>
> son john bonville. what i need is evidence that he was illegitimate.
Why?
> so if i have to find out who the real mother was i either need his
> mums will or deeds
If he was illegitimate, then his mother was not likely to have been of
the class to have left a will. Some father's named their bastards in
their own wills, so perhaps you could try and see if his father left a
will. The best place to start that search, is online at the National
Archives.
As to any deeds, again, it is doubtless his mother was of the class to
own property, though it is possible. But you need to know her name
before you can search for her deeds. Any pertinent deeds may still be in
private hands, or they may be deposited in any number of Records Offices
or other repositories. You could begin a search for these through A2A,
again, through the National Archives.
> to the property. also i need john bonvilles coat of arms this would
> tell me if he was illegitimate.
If John Bonville was illegitimate, then he would not be entitled to bear
his father's coat of arms. The only way he could bear arms, was if he
was knighted himself. You need to research the Bonville coats of arms to
find out if he bore arms himself. If he did, then his coat of arms may
be published in a book. You might be really lucky and find such a book
online. But the only way to find out, is to spend a fortune at the
College of Arms by way of a query to them.
> is there anyway that you could prove this.
No, it is up to you to prove this.
Douglas Richardson
There is a good discussion of John Bonville, the illegitimate son of
William Bonville, Lord Bonville, at the following weblink:
You can be certain that John Bonville was illegitimate. At the death
of Lord Bonville, his heir was his great-granddaughter, Cecily
Bonville, later wife of Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset. Because Lord
Bonville died without any surviving male issue, certain Bonville
family estates which had been settled on male issue were subsequently
claimed by Lord Bonville's younger brother, Thomas Bonville. These
propertes passed to Thomas Bonville's descendants.
The matter regarding the failure of Lord Bonville's legitimate male
issue is set forth is most of the published sources on the Bonville
family.
Best always, Douglas Richardson
Douglas Richardson
There is a pedigree chart of Thomas Bonville's descendants published
in A History of the Castles, Mansions, and Manors of Western Sussex,
pg. 42. It may be viewed at the following weblink:
As indicated by this chart, Thomas Bonville [younger brother of
William Bonville, Lord Bonville] had two sons named John Bonville by
different wives. These two John Bonville's are separate and distinct
men from Lord Bonville's illegitimate son, John Bonville, of
Ivybvridge, Devon.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
John
> Tish ~
>
> There is a pedigree chart of Thomas Bonville's descendants published
> in A History of the Castles, Mansions, and Manors of Western Sussex,
> pg. 42. It may be viewed at the following weblink:
>
>
> As indicated by this chart, Thomas Bonville [younger brother of
> William Bonville, Lord Bonville] had two sons named John Bonville by
> different wives. These two John Bonville's are separate and distinct
> men from Lord Bonville's illegitimate son, John Bonville, of
> Ivybvridge, Devon.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
The account in the source in the above URL of Thomas Bonville having
sons named John by both of his two wives is at considerable variance
with the account in Vivian's edition of the Visitations of Devon
(available at the BYU Library website). Vivian says that Thomas had
one son John, by his first wife Joan Poynings, and that John had two
daughters by each of his two wives Jane/Joan Wibbery [or Wybury] and
Katherine Wingfield. Elwes and Robinson, the authors of the source
cited above, may have been confused because Vivian says that Jane
Wibbery was the daughter of Lora Gorges (Thomas Bonville's 2nd wife)
by her 1st husband John Wibbery.
In other words, Thomas Bonville had a single son John by his 1st wife,
and this son John married twice. After Thomas' 1st wife died, he
subsequently married his son's mother-in-law Lora Gorges Wibbery who
was then a widow. This would not be unusual and, barring evidence to
the contrary, seems more likely than Thomas Bonville having two sons
named John. In fact, the latter case is impossible if John's wife
Jane Wibbery was in fact the daughter of Lora Gorges.
But these John Bonvilles (one or two) are peripheral at best to the
original topic of this thread (and its predecessors) which seek a John
Bonville who had a daughter Cecily who supposedly married a James
Nott. No such Bonville/Nott marriage appears in any pedigree of the
Bonvilles that I'm aware of, and no evidence has been provided that
supports this supposed marriage. Without such evidence, a connection
to any John Bonville in the documented family is just a guess.
Douglas Richardson
The record below may interest you. It is a Chancery Proceeding dated
1493-1500, involvinhg Alice Dennis, the widow of John Bonville (the
illegitimate son of Sir William Bonville, Lord Bonville).
Alice Dennis' mother, Jane Challons, who is mentioned in the lawsuit
below has royal ancestry by way of her descent from the Beauchamp
family of Ryme, Dorset and Hatch Beauchamp, Somerset.
For the Challons-Dennis-Bonville connection, see Misc. Gen. et
Heraldica, 2nd Series 2 (1888): 76-78.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + +
National Archives, .C 1/185/28 (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
catalogue/search.asp)
Record Summary
Scope and content:
Alice, late the wife of John Bonvile, and daughter and heir of Jane
Denyse. v. John Wright, of Honyngton.: Detention of deeds relating to
the manors of Combralley, Allescombe, and Buckerell, the moiety of the
manor of Chalonsley and other land in Venchannonys, Ottery St. Mary,
and Honiton.: Devon.
Covering dates 1493-1500
Availability Open Document, Open Description, Normal Closure before
FOI Act: 30 years
Held by The National Archives, Kew
Douglas Richardson
The book, Devonshire Wills, by Charles Worthy (1896), pg. 429-430
discusses the family of John Bonville, the illegitimate son of Sir
William Bonville, Lord Bonville. It identifies the mother of his
wife, Alice Dennis, as a St. Albyn, and states that she in turn was
the daughter of a Challons. This material may be viewed at the
following weblink:
Whether Alice Dennis' mother or grandmother was a Challons, she still
has a descent through the Challons family from the Beauchamp family as
stated in my earlier post.
Can you provide your documentation that your Cecily Nott was a
Bonville?