The Angevins claimed descent from one Tortulf the Woodman [AKA Tertulle]. He doesnt sound that
noble. And so the queen would also be descended from him. But did he actually exist? I found this
old post in the archives from 1996 about him:
>>
nta...@fas.harvard.edu (Nathaniel Taylor) wrote:
>> >In article <4r68le$
p...@peach.america.net>, "Gerald L. Blanchard"
>> ><
jer...@america.net> wrote:
>>
snip
>> But what about Tertulle? Did he ever exist? Does anyone know
>> of any contemporary source that mentions him. I remember reading
>> that Ingelger, father of Fulk I, had a father called Tordulf or
>> Tortulf the Woodman, who is supposed to have received land
>> from Charles the Bald. Has this ever been verified? Even so
>> if this Tortulf is Tertulle, was he count of Anjou?
>
>I don't have these materials to hand, but for some reason Bachrach seemed
>to accept the (late) evidence of the Gesta consulum andegavorum and
>assumed that the named parents of Ingelger were real people--they may not
>have been counts (or marquesses), but they probably were not 'woodmen'.
>It was a common device of the twelfth-century comital genealogies to
>attribute the line to someone who rose by merit, like a knight errant,
>under the middle or later Carolingians.
>
>Even if Tertullus and Petronilla are historical personages and the
>testimony of the gesta is to be accepted, there is no known genealogical
>link from Ingelger to Charlemagne, and that was the point of the original
>post.
>
>Nat Taylor
It is as you say the 12th century _Gesta Consulum_, which tells
the history of the Angevin dynasty from the 9th century, which
furnishes these genealogical details.
In this source, Tertulle was the son of Tortulf, who it says
was made royal forester at Limelle near Angers by Charles the
Bald. He rose to favour with the king, and his son Tertulle
became a _clientela regis_ at court, and received the benefice
or fief of Chateau-Landon in the Gatinais. But he was not a
count, only a _miles_. The king arranged his marriage to
Petronilla relative of Hugo the Abbot (d.886). Their son Ingelgar
married the grand-daughter of the lord of Amboise, who was also
the niece of Adalard Archbishop of Tours 875-91, and Raino of
Angers 880-905. He served first as viscount of Orleans, then
'prefect of Tours', before becoming Count of Anjou.
So goes the story. However the _Gesta_ is probably not a
reliable source for the 9th century, written as it was so far
removed from the period it describes, and under direction of
Fulk IV: as you say it is doubtful whether Tertulle or Petronilla
existed. Their names are unlikely for the 9th century. The
_gesta_ uses 12th century forms and langauge which would not
be the case if they were genuinely working from 9th century
materials or sources. Moreover even Ingelgar was never count
of Anjou: his son Fulk I only took that title in 929. The
_gesta_ seeks to legitimise the dynasty's ancestral control
of Anjou and the Loire valley, by connecting it to Charles
the Bald and earlier noble families. However in ascribing a
relationship with Hugo the abbot, it may preserve a tradition
that the ancesters of Fulk I served in the retinue of the
9th century Marquis's of Neustria; Robert the Strong (d.866),
Hugo the Abbot (866-86), Odo (886-8), Robert II (886-922).
As their deputy, Ingelgar may well have been viscount of
Orleans and then Tours. While I have yet to locate a Tortulf
or a Tertulle in the sources of the second half of the ninth
century, there are several Ingelgars. I shall keep looking.
tom>>
And presumably never found any evidence. But surely the oldest verifiable ancestor
of the Queen is Egbert of Wessex d839 ?
mike