Hastings Pedigree
Cristopher Nash
but following the long and illuminating discussion among Alan B Wilson, Kay
Allen and Richard Borthwick concerning in particular (among others) the
marriage and descendents of Hugh de Hastings (d. before 1166) and Erneburga
de Flamville (though Kay had last-minute doubts there):
May I ask whether everybody is ok about: Robert de Hastings of Little
Easton m. Maud de Flamville-->daughter Aelicia/Delicia who married (1)
Ralph de Cornhil and (2) ca 1199 Geoffrey/Godefrey de Louvain/Lovaine (who
d. bef 26 Apr 1226)?
If so, should I take it that this is the Robert in Richard B's précis of
Sanders, vis.: a Robert de Hastings presumably of Little Easton who d.
about 1190 having m. an Isabel (da. of William s. of Walter Fitz Other) and
left a da. Alice? And if so, has anybody an idea how that would work?
Thanks!
Cris
Cristopher Nash
designed to gain a very helpful answer. Of course the two Roberts may well
be the same, and he simply had two wives (Maud de Flamville and Isabel
grdda. of Walter Fitz Other). What I'm really asking is for help in
sequencing Robert among the Hastings and his wife among the Flamvilles (if
that is right). Cheers for your patience!
Cris
Richard Borthwick
doubt that they are the same family group. Roger (II) de F. (d.1169) and
his wife Juetta de Arches (d.about 1206) had a daughter Maud (d.after 1219)
who married Robert de Hastings (d.about 1190). If Robert has a wife Isabel
(and there is some doubt about this) she would have been his first wife. I
think Moriarty is probably right in thinking Maud to be the mother of Alice.
Robert was son of William (d.1162/66) and Hawise ? de Guerres (d.after
1219). William was the son of Robert fitz Walter (d.about 1128). Debate has
centred on whether his father Walter was Walter fitz Other (Windsor) or
Walter the Deacon (otherwise known as Walter fitz Tedric). Moriarty opts
for the first alternative and then in a later extended note of correction
for the latter. Keats-Rohan *Domesday People* I:454 says that Walter the
Deacon was brother (not son) and heir of Tedric (Theoderic) in the lands in
Essex which became known as the barony of Little Easton and that Robert
fitz Walter (aka de Windsor) was Walter's son. Moriarty and Keats Rohan
both come to roughly the same conclusion based on the work of L Landon "The
Barony of Little Easton and the Family of Hastings" in *Trans. Essex Arch.
Soc.* vol xix. In addition K-R cites B Dodwell "Charters relating to the
Honour of Bacton" in Stenton Miscellany (but precisely what this Stenton
work is titled I don't know - a quick look at the bibliography hasn't
enlightened me!).
It is likely that Robert fitz Walter married a dau. of Walter fitz Other
according to Moriarty and both he and K-R note that Robert fitz Walter's
sister, Edith married (1) Ralph steward of Bury St Edmunds and (2) Maurice
de Windsor.
Why the names 'Windsor' and 'Hastings' were used by members of Robert's
family is something of a mystery. The fitz Other family linked Robert's
family and that of Hastings and the adoption of such surnames was a very
fluid matter at this stage of surname development.
Kay gave the full details of the Moriarty papers in the course of the
Hastings discussion. on Maud de Flamville and her ascendants see Farrer
*Early Yorkshire Charters* I:420 and II:89-95.
>
Alan B. Wilson
en...@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Cristopher Nash) wrote:
Here is how I have put it together, in descent formats (relying
primarily on Moriarty, #544 in the source list.)
FITZOTHER DESCENT
(1) 1 Walter FitzOther Lord of Eton (Bucks)[82, 366:16],[411, p. 470
(table 12)],[455, p. 589],[353, p. 130],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20],[544]
castellan of Windsor[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20]
d. aft 1100[411, p. 470 (table 12) +],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20 +]
& Beatrice[82, 366:17],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20]
(2) 1.1 William of Windsor[455, p. 590],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20]
(2) 1.2 Robert Lord of Little Easton[353, p. 130],[455, p. 589],[544]
Lord of Little Easton (Essex)
d. ca 1128[353, p. 130 +],[544, +]
(3) 1.2.1 William Lord of Little Easton[353, p. 130],[455, p.
589],[544]
Lord of Little Easton (Essex)[353, p. 130]
d. 1162/1166[353, p. 130],[544, + (bef 1166)]
& Hawise de GUERRES[544]
d. aft 1219[544, +]
(4) 1.2.1.1 Isabel (/Delicia)[353, p. 130],[455, p. 589]
b. Of Little Easton (Essex)
(4) 1.2.1.2 Robert de HASTINGS[74],[233],[455, p. 589],[544]
b. of Little Easton (Essex) England[74]
d. ca 1190[353, p. 130 +]
& Maud de Flamville Lady[74],[544]
d. aft 1219[544, +]
(5) 1.2.1.2.1 Alice HASTINGS[74],[233],[353, p.
130],[455, p. 589],[544]
b. Of Little Easton (Essex)[353, p. 130]
& Godfrey de Lovaine[74],[455, p. 589],[544]
d. ca 26 Apr 1226[74]
custodian of the castle Eye (Suffk) England[74]
m. ca 1199[233]
(6) 1.2.1.2.1.1 Matthew (de Louvaine) DESSEX
Sir[41],[74],[233],[455, p. 589]
b. of Little Easton (Essex) England[74]
custodian of the honour of Eye (Essex)[74]
d. Jun 1258[233]
& Muriel [74],[233]
d. aft 1275[74]
(2) 1.3 Gerald de Windsor Constable of Pembroke[74],[82,
366:08*],[411, p. 470 (table 12)],[41, "Kerry" vii, 200-216; "Offaly" x,
10-20]
. Constable of Pembroke Castle[74]
d. bef 1136[74],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20 +]
& Nesta ferch Rhys[74],[82, 366:09*],[411, p. 470 (table 12)],[41,
"Offaly" x, 10-20]
(3) 1.3.1 Maurice FitzGerald Lord[74],[82, 366:04],[233],[411,
p. 470 (table 12)],[41, "Kerry" vii, 200-216; "Offaly" x, 10-20]
b. ca 1100[74],[82],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20 *]
Lord of Lanstephen, Wales; Steward of St. Davids[74]
d. 1 Sep 1176, Wexford (Leinster) Ireland[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20]
& Alice of Montgomery[74],[82, 366:05],[233],[41, "Kerry" vii,
200-216]
m. ?
(4) 1.3.1.1 Gerald FitzMaurice Baron of Offaly[74],[82,
366:02],[41, "Kerry" vii, 200-216; "Offaly" x, 10-20]
b. ca 1150[74],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20 *]
I Baron of Offaly[74]
d. bef 15 Jan 1203/1204[74],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20 +]
& Eve de BERMINGHAM[74],[82, 366:03],[41, "Kerry" vii,
200-216; "Offaly" x, 10-20]
d. bef 1226[74],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20 +]
(5) 1.3.1.1.1 Maurice fitz Gerald Baron of
Offaly[74],[82],[41, "Kerry" vii, 200-216; "Offaly" x, 10-20]
b. ca 1190[74],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20]
II Baron Offaly; Lord of Lea[74]
d. 1257, monastery of Youghal[74],[41, "Offaly" x,
10-20 +@]
br. monastery of Youghal[41, @]
Mo. Justicar of Ireland[74]
& Juliane de COGAN[82],[41, "Offaly" x, 10-20 ("Juliane")]
b. ca 1215[82]
(6) 1.3.1.1.1.1 Maurice fitz
Maurice[82],[233],[41, "Kerry" vii, 200-216; "Offaly" x, 16, n. a]
of Offely[233]
Lord of Offaly, Ireland[74]
d. 1286[74],[41, "Kerry" vii, 200-216; +]
& Emmeline Longespee[82],[233],[41, "Kerry" vii,
200-216]
b. ca 1250, of Sutton (Nhants) England[74],[82]
d. 1291[82]
m. ca 1266[74]
(3) 1.3.2 ? de Windsor[490],[543]
& William de HASTINGS[490],[543],[484]
d. aft 1130[543, +]
(4) 1.3.2.1 Hugh de HASTINGS Lord of Fillongley[455, p.
266],[483, p. 32],[543]
Lord of Fillongley (Warks([455, p. 266]
& Erneburga de FLAMVILLE[455, p. 266],[483, p. 32],[543]
(5) 1.3.2.1.1a William HASTINGS*[484],[455, p. 266],[543]
steward to Henry II[455, p. 266]
d. bef 1 Apr 1182[543, +]
& Maud BANASTER[455, p. 266],[543]
(6) 1.3.2.1.1a.1 Henry de HASTINGS[455, p. 266],[543]
d. bef 1194[455, p. 266],[543, +]
(6) 1.3.2.1.1a.2 William de HASTINGS[74],[455, p.
266],[543]
& Margaret BIGOD[74],[455, p. 266]
(5) 1.3.2.1.1b William HASTINGS*[484],[455, p. 266],[543]
steward to Henry II[455, p. 266]
d. bef 1 Apr 1182[543, +]
& Ida of Ewe[455, p. 266]
(5) 1.3.2.1.2 Richard de HASTINGS Rector of
Barewell[455, p. 266]
rector of Barewell (Leics)[455, p. 266]
(5) 1.3.2.1.3 Mahant de HASTINGS[455, p. 266]
(5) 1.3.2.1.4 Thomas HASTINGS[484],[543]
of Gissing (Norfolk)
d. 1182/1189[490, +],[543, + (bef 1194/5)]
(6) 1.3.2.1.4.1 Hugh de HASTINGS[483, chart
facing p. 87],[484],[482, ii, 421],[490],[525],[543]
of Gissing (Norfolk)[490]
d. bef 1204[483, chart facing p. 87],[490, +
(ca 1203)]
& Helen of Allerston[483, chart facing p.
87],[482, ii, 421],[490],[525],[543]
d. bef 1231[490],[543, +]
m. ca 1194/1195[490, =],[543, =]
FLAMVILLE DESCENT
(1) 1 Hugh de FLAMVILLE[483, p. 29]
. 1122[483, p. 29]
(2) 1.1 Roger de FLAMVILLE[483, p. 29]
d. bef 1170[483, p. 29+]
& Ivetta (Juetta) de ARCHES[74, see 136:25],[483, pp. 2, 29],[104, p.
140],[82, 353:07*]
d. 1206[74, see 136:25 +]
(3) 1.1.1 Agnes de FLAMVILLE[483, p. 72]
& William de PERCY[483, chart facing p. 87]
d. bef 1204[483, p. 72]
(4) 1.1.1.1 Alice de PERCY[483, chart facing p. 87],[41, v,
416, n. d]
& Adam de STAVELEY[483, p. 89, chart facing p. 87],[41, v,
416, n. d]
d. ca 1218[483, chart facing p. 87 +]
(5) 1.1.1.1.1 Alice de STAVELEY[483, p. 90, chart
facing p. 87],[41, v, 416, n. d]
d. 1250/1253[483, chart facing p. 87 +]
& Ranulf Fitz Henry[472, i, 89],[483, p. 28],[41, v,
416, n. d],[542]
d. aft 1235[472, i, 89]
m. 1211[483, chart facing p. 87 =]
(4) 1.1.1.2 Walter de PERCY[483, p. 31]
(3) 1.1.2 Maud de Flamville Lady[74],[544]
d. aft 1219[544, +]
& Robert de HASTINGS[74],[233],[455, p. 589],[544]
b. of Little Easton (Essex) England[74]
d. ca 1190[353, p. 130 +]
(4) 1.1.2.1 Alice HASTINGS[74],[233],[353, p. 130],[455, p.
589],[544]
b. Of Little Easton (Essex)[353, p. 130]
& Godfrey de Lovaine[74],[455, p. 589],[544]
d. ca 26 Apr 1226[74]
custodian of the castle Eye (Suffk) England[74]
m. ca 1199[233]
(5) 1.1.2.1.1 Matthew (de Louvaine) DESSEX
Sir[41],[74],[233],[455, p. 589]
b. of Little Easton (Essex) England[74]
custodian of the honour of Eye (Essex)[74]
d. Jun 1258[233]
& Muriel •[74],[233]
d. aft 1275[74]
(3) 1.1.3 Hugh de FLAMVILLE[483, p. 29]
d. 1212[483, p. 30]
Sources
41. Cokayne, George Edward, 1825-1911, Vicary Gibbs (ed.), The complete
peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, and the United Kingdon, London: The
St. Catherine Press, ltd., 1910-1959. 13 v. in 14.
74. Weis, Frederick Lewis, Ancestral roots of certain American colonists
who came to America before 1700; 7th ed., with additions and correctiuons
by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr. ; assisted by David Faris, Baltimore, MD:
Genealogical Publishing Co., 1992.
82. Call, Michel L., Royal Ancestors of Some American Families ; Pedigree
Charts., Printed by the author, 1991.
233. Schwennicke, Detlev (ed.), Europaische Stammtafeln : Stammtafeln zur
Geschichte der europaischen Staaten / begrundet von Wilhelm Karl Prinz zu
Isenburg ; fortgefuhrt von Frank Baron Freytag von Loringhoven ; neue
Folge herausgegeben von...., Marburg: Stargardt, 1978-<1995 >.
353. Sanders, I. J., English Baronies: a study of their origin and
descent, 1086-1327, Oxford: The Clarendon Press, 1960.
411. Barlow, Frank, William Rufus, Berkeley: University of California
Press, 1983.
455. Burke, Sir Bernard, Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages
of the British Empire, Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1996.
Reprinted from edition originally published in London by Burke's Peerage, 1883.
482. Page, William (ed.), Victoria History of the Counties of England,
The: Yorkshire North Riding, London: Constable, 1914.
483. Clay, Charles, Early Yorkshire Families, Yorkshire Archaeological
Society, 1973.
484. Cleveland, Duchess of, The Battle Sbbey roll. With some account of
the Norman Lineages, London: John Murray, 1889.
490. Allen, Kay, "Re: Hastings Pedigree," soc.genealogy.medieval, 20 Aug 1998.
Refers to G. Andrews Moriarty, "The Origin of the Hastings," English
Origins of New England Families from NEHGS Register, 1st series, Vol. II:
686-696.
525. Borthwick, Richard, "Re: 15 Generation Table of the Ancestors of Sir
Leonard," GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, 16 Jul 1998.
543. Moriarty, G. Andrews, "The origin of the Hastings," NEHGR, xcvi, Jan
1942, 36-48.
544. Moriarty, G. Andrews, "Hastings, barons of Little Eston, C. Essex,
England," NEHGR, ci, Oct 1947, 291-295.
--
Alan B. Wilson
abwi...@uclink4.berkeley.edu
Cristopher Nash
and Alan for a putting all my loose members in a lucid consecutive Big
working Picture. The Farrer was my starting point (along with CP and the
usuals), but this wonderfully synthesizes stuff new to me and gives good
places to go on from. (Honest, I can't recall a more finely wrought
matter-of-hours convergence here of helpful thinking on a tricky -- and, I
know, still many-hitch-laden -- line.) I'll study (and compare) with
relish and any other sauce you fancy - I'm extremely grateful to you both.
Cris