Mother of Margaret Stafford

[bat...@hotmail.com]

Hey gang,

I was looking through Roskell's "House of Commons 1386-1421" and in his
bios on some of the Stafford MPs reference is made to Margaret, the wife
of Sir John Stafford. Roskell says she was the daughter of Ralph, 1st
Earl of Stafford, by his first wife Katherine Hastang.

I was always under the impression (from Burke's Peerage) that Margaret
was one of Ralph's 4 daughters by his 2nd wife Margaret d'Audley
(granddaughter of Joan of Acre).

Does anyone know which is the correct mother of this Margaret Stafford?

Best regards, ---------Brad Verity

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

[Robert O'Connor]

> I was looking through Roskell's "House of Commons 1386-1421" and in his
> bios on some of the Stafford MPs reference is made to Margaret, the wife
> of Sir John Stafford. Roskell says she was the daughter of Ralph, 1st
> Earl of Stafford, by his first wife Katherine Hastang.
>
> I was always under the impression (from Burke's Peerage) that Margaret
> was one of Ralph's 4 daughters by his 2nd wife Margaret d'Audley
> (granddaughter of Joan of Acre).
>
> Does anyone know which is the correct mother of this Margaret Stafford?

Weis in Line 55 of his Ancestral Roots 7th Edition (page 60) also lists
Margaret Stafford as the daughter of the 1st Earl of Stafford's 1st wife.

Robert O'Connor

[John Ravilious]

Wednesday, 24 January, 2001

Hello Robert and Brad,

What I have on this familial group:

.1. Ralph de Stafford, K.G., Baron of Stafford, created Earl of Stafford 5 Mar 1350/51; d. 31 Aug 1372

m 1) Katherine de Hastang (d before 6 Jul 1336)

issue:

...1. Margaret de Stafford, m. John de Stafford, of Bramshall, co. Stafford
...2. Joan de Stafford, m. Nicholas Beke

m 2) Margaret de Audley, daughter of Hugh de Audley, Earl of Gloucester and Margaret de Clare; d. 16 Sept 1348

issue:

...1. Joan de Stafford, m. John de Cherleton, 3rd Lord Cherleton
...2. Elizabeth de Stafford, m. Sir John de Ferrers, 4th Lord Ferrers of Chartley
...3. Beatrice de Stafford, m. Thomas de Ros, 4th Lord Ros
...4. Hugh de Stafford, 2nd Earl of Stafford
...5. Katherine de Stafford, m. John de Sutton, of Dudley, co. Worcester

{sources: CP, and PA, 2nd ed.}

I understand there was another son (by Margaret de Audley), on whom I have no other information at present.

Good luck, and good hunting.

John

"Robert O'Connor" <rjuoc...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was looking through Roskell's "House of Commons 1386-1421" and in his
> > bios on some of the Stafford MPs reference is made to Margaret, the wife
> > of Sir John Stafford.  Roskell says she was the daughter of Ralph, 1st
> > Earl of Stafford, by his first wife Katherine Hastang.
> >
> > I was always under the impression (from Burke's Peerage) that Margaret
> > was one of Ralph's 4 daughters by his 2nd wife Margaret d'Audley
> > (granddaughter of Joan of Acre).
> >
> > Does anyone know which is the correct mother of this Margaret Stafford?
>

> Weis in Line 55 of his Ancestral Roots 7th Edition (page 60) also lists
> Margaret Stafford as the daughter of the 1st Earl of Stafford's 1st wife.
>
> Robert O'Connor
>
>
>

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[p.sutton]

John

The other son was Ralph de Stafford 1st son and heir by Margaret de Audley.
He married 1st Nov. 1344, Maud eldest dau. and coheir of Henry of Grosmont,
Duke of Lancaster. He was dead in 1347. (CP XII/1 p. 177).

Joan Stafford, daughter of Ralph, Earl of Stafford's second marriage to
Margaret de Audley, was first of all married to John Lord Cherlton who died
13 Jul 1374 she then married Gilbert, Lord Talbot as his second wife. She
died before 1397.

There was some debate last July regarding the wife of Sir Nicholas Beke
which I don't think was resolved.

Sir Nicholas de Beek died in 1369. In the Collection for a History of
Staffordshire Volume: 1925 p. 109 it states from a suit at Stafford Assizes
in July, 1402, we learn definitely that he (Sir Nicholas Beke) was the son
of Mary (otherwise Mariota) de Bek, and that he himself married a wife named
Joan; while from a suit also heard at Stafford in August, 1408 we know that
he and Joan were both living at Lady day, 1348 (SHC XV, pages 114 and 122
Plea Rolls 1387-1405). However, the surname is not quoted in any source I
have seen.

As to Ralph de Stafford's children by Katherine de Hastang I have not seen
any direct evidence that there were any other children from this marriage
apart from Margaret.

I am not sure how likely it would be for him to have 2 daughters both called
Joan who lived to adulthood. Have you got a reliable source for the
marriage to Sir Nicholas Bek?

Peter Sutton

[Adrian Fray]

Hi,

I also have Margaret Stafford as the daughter of Ralph Stafford and
Katherine Hastang.

Did you know that Margaret was distantly related to her husband, John
Stafford?

John's father was William, his father was William, and his father was a
William who was brother to Hervey Stafford (d 1237). Their parents were
Millicent Stafford and Hervey Bagot (d 1214).

Margaret was one of the 4 dau of Ralph (1st Earl of Stafford) and Katherine
Hastang. Ralph's father was Edmund (1st Lord Stafford, d 1308), his father
was Nicholas (d 1287), his father was Robert (d 1261), and his father was
the Hervey Stafford (d 1237) who was the brother of William Stafford, the
gt. grandfather of John Stafford.

John and Margaret had a son Ralph. He had 2 sons Humphrey and Fulk. Humphrey
had sons John and Humphrey, and it was this Sir Humphrey Stafford of Grafton
who was killed in Cade's Rebelion. He had sons Humphrey and Richard.
Humphrey married Katherine Fray, and was executed 1Hen VII. After his
execution, the archbishop sent his personal effects to Agnes Fray (nee
Danvers, mother of Katherine), together with a letter (at Kew PRO).

I hope that this may be of interest. It was obtained from Worcestershire
VCHs, documents at the Worcs. CRO, Kew PRO, and a book on the Staffords
(misplaced my reference to the latter).

Adrian

<bat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:94it6k$s8l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[KAD...@aol.com]

Would it be possible for you to post the four daughters names and spouses.

Thanks.

Karen

[John Ravilious]

Thursday, 25 January, 2001

Hello Peter,

Thanks for the information re: Ralph (dvp) de Stafford.

I will check through my notes re: the de Stafford family concerning the Joan de Stafford -Nicholas de Bek/Beke connection - I don't have a direct citation, as this is unfortunately not a direct line I was documenting thoroughly at the time. My own lines trace through Beatrice de Stafford (wife of Thomas de Ros) and Hugh de Stafford, 2nd Earl of Stafford.

Good luck, and good hunting.

John

[bat...@hotmail.com]

Adrian,

Many thanks to you for the information below, as well as thanks to
everyone who's posted with a response.

It seems clear that Margaret was Ralph, 1st Earl of Stafford's daughter
by his first wife, and not by Margaret d'Audley.

Curious that Margaret bore the same first name as her stepmother, which
is probably what made "Burke's Peerage" assume she was Margaret
d'Audley's daughter. Still, Margaret was a very common 14th century
name.

Well, one less line of descent for my future website, which I hope to
have up sometime this year. I'm covering all of the 14th and 15th
century descendants of Edward I. There's so much misinformation in
secondary sources and web databases that my goal is for the website to
have the most up-to-date info on Edward I's medieval descendants.

Thanks again for the Margaret Stafford info!

Best regards, ----------Brad Verity

[Marsha Hallett]

Dear Adrian, This has helped me immensely! I had Margaret as the dau. of
Margaret too. Hmmm...Guess she gets a new mom now.
I didn`t have the connections for John, hubby of Margaret.
However,on the Ralphs and Humphreys, can you send me some dates and places,
so if I do have them I can get them hooked in correctly? My Staffords are a
mish-mash...I would dearly love to have every Stafford in the right family.
Thanks,
Marsha

[Marsha Hallett]

> I am not sure how likely it would be for him to have 2 daughters both
called
> Joan who lived to adulthood>

> Peter Sutton

Dear Peter, I have her as Jane! That works...
Marsha

[Marsha Hallett]

> I understand there was another son (by Margaret de Audley), on whom I
have no other information at present.
>
> Good luck, and good hunting.
>
>
> John

Dear John, I have that other son as:
Ralph de Stafford, b. abt 1340
md. 1 Nov 1344 as a child
d.1347, aged 7
His "wife" was Matilda Plantagenet,
b. 4 Apr 1335, d. 10 apr 1362
Her real husband was William IV von Wittelsbach, Duke of Bavaria.
She was the dau. of Henry de Grosmont Plantagenet and Isabel de Beaumont.
Sources are: Plantagenet Ancestry by Faris, and Tompsett`s Genealogy of
Royalty on the Internet.
I hope this is 1: correct and 2: helpful!
Marsha

[p.sutton]

Marsha

I would like it to work for me as well!

Do you know of any contemporary source which shows that Ralph 1st Earl of
Stafford had a daughter called Jane and that Sir Nicholas Beek was married
to someone with the name Jane?

Peter Sutton

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use...@rootsweb.com [mailto:use...@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of
> Marsha Hallett
> Sent: 29 January 2001 19:27
> To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Mother of Margaret Stafford
>
>