de Bohun, le Bon, and Bone
Michele Chavez
Hi Everyone,
I'm working on a Bone line that claims descent from the de
Bohun's through a "marriage" between Richard le Bon of Scotland,
who supposedly married his distant English cousin, Margaret de
Bohun. According a book called The Bone Family in America,
Margaret's family had Richard and Margaret's marriage annulled
shortly after the birth of their son John. She then married Hugh
de Courtenay and had 17 more children.
The only evidence of the marriage that the book's author was able
to find was in a library at Oxford among de Bohun family papers,
which said that Margaret's marriage to de Courtenay was her
SECOND marriage.
Also, Richard le Bon's line was supposed to have descended from
the de Bohuns but his branch was estranged from the English
branch when his ancestor supported the losing side between Prince
Henry and Henry II.
The book says:
"When Prince Henry revolted against his father in 1173, Sir
Robert de Bohun was one of his associates. In the next year, the
situation became critical when Prince Henry persuaded William the
Lion, King of Scotland, to joint him in the war against his
father...The battle ended in a complete route of the rebellious
forces; King William was captured and imprisoned, Sir Robert [de
Bohun] fled to Scotland...the rift between the de Bohuns was too
great; it is believed that Sir Robert never saw his father or
brother Humphrey again...
"About 1323, Sir Richard le Bon de Bohun, a descendant of the
Scottish branch of the family mentioned earlier, was sent to
England on a special mission. He visited his cousins, the family
of Humphrey, the seventh Baron de Bohun, and fell in love with
Margaret. They `married' and had a son, John. Before the latter
was a year old, the family had the marriage annulled and Lady
Margaret was married shortly thereafter (August 11, 1325) to Sir
Hugh de Courtenay III (1303-77), Earl of Devon. Sir Richard and
his infant son lived in Scotland. The Scottish family soon
thereafter dropped the de Bohun; so the son was known as John le
Bon....
"The Scottish branch of the de Bohun family consists of shadowy
figures of the past from 1183, when Sir Robert de Bohun settled
on a fief granted him by King William the Lion, until 1610 when a
descendant of Sir Robert's migrated to Northern Ireland. The
English branch appeared many times in records of the period
(1066-1447) as noted in Chapter VIII above. Genealogists of the
Bone family have discovered some records of the Scottish branch
in libraries, museums, and record offices in Edinburgh, Glasgow,
Belfast, Londonderry, and London. As a result of tedious
checking, begun in 1870-71, a list of direct male descendants
from Sir Robert to William Bone of Pennsylvania has been
compiled.
(0) Humphrey, third Baron de Bohun (1109-87)
(1) Sir Robert `le Bon' de Bohun (b. c1153); to Scotland in
1174-83.
(2) Sir Richard `le Bon' de Bohun (b 1181)
(3) Sir William le Bon de Bohun (b. 1215)
(4) Sir Henry le Bon de Bohun (b. c1243)
(5) Sir Richard le Bon de Bohun (1271-1325)
(6) Sir Richard le Bon de Bohun (1297-1357)
(7) John le Bon (1324-1391)
(8) Humphrey le Bon (d. 1408) ?
(9) William le Bon (d. 1435)
(10) Robert le Bon (d. 1478)
(11) John le Bon (d. 1514)
(12) John le Bon (d. 1513)
(13) John Bone (d. 1547); had two sons (or brothers named Bone)
who migrated to the English midlands prior to 1549
(14) Robert Bone of Scotland (d. after 1573)
(15) James Bone of Scotland (d. 1609/10)
(16) Robert Bone of Scotland (d. 1609/10); had two sons who left
Scotland; Thomas to English Midlands in 1610, and
(17) Robert Bone: to Northern Ireland in 1610. He had five
sons, the two youngest of whom left Ireland; Thomas for the West
Indies and George to the Virginia colony, both in 1650/51; his
eldest
(18) William Bone (d. Northern Ireland 1674)
(19) John Bone of Ulster (1649-1720); had five sons (eldest
Humphrey --d.s.p.;.); the second of whom as
(20) William Bone (1670-1728): migrated in 1692 to that part of
Chester County, Pennsylvania, which later became Lancaster
County.....
"One of the most interesting, yet traumatic, stories in the
history of the Bone family took place in 1325 when Lady Margaret
de Bohun was forced to leave her husband, Sir Richard de Bohun,
and her infant son, John, a few months old, and marry Hugh de
Courtenay, Earl of Devon. Sir Richard and his infant son settled
on their Scottish land and ties with the English relations were
evidently severed....When John le Bon de Bohun reached adulthood,
he dropped the de Bohun and the family thereafter became known as
le Bon until early in the sixteenth century when they began using
Bone....
"One of the problems of the Bone genealogists has been to find a
record of the marriage of Lady Margaret and Sir Richard le Bon de
Bohun. Family legend connected the Bones with the de Bohuns and
had it that the Bones were direct descendants of King Edward I.
Dave Bone in his 1870-90 records shows Margaret de Bohun, Edward
I's granddaughter, as the mother of John le Bon of Scotland. In
1926, I copied from some of Dave's material the following note,
scribbled on yellow lined paper, `Sir Richard le B de B
(1297-1357) m. c1323 Lady Margaret de Bohun (1305-91), dau of Sir
Humphrey and Lady Eliz. de B. - (An 1324/25): one son John (b.
1324).' It was thought that the AN of Dave's stood for
`annulment.' Hwever, there are some problems: No record has
been found of Margaret's marriage to Sir Richard, yet there are
records in volumes on the peerage, published in the seventeenth
and eighteenth centuries, giving her marriage to Sir Hugh de
Courtenay....Attempts have been made to find contemporary records
or references to her marriage to Sir Richard and/or to an
annulment in libraries, record offices; even in the Vatican
library...
"I finally received some help from two sources: from Dr. Wallace
Notestein, eminent Professor of English History (medieval period)
at Yale, and from a manuscript in the Bodleian Library of Oxford
University....Dr. Notestein showed an interest in my query and
stated that the royal family not only might have obtained a papal
annulment, but also might have been successful in having the
marriage deleted from all known records...
"There is one more inportant and interesting piece of evidence
which I found in the winter of 1945-46. At the time I was
teaching history at Shrivenham University, located in the village
of Shrivenham, near Swindon, and not far from Oxford, England. I
had a special permit to use the libraries at Oxford University.
Through the help of Sir Richard Livingstone, Vice Chancellor of
Oxford, a librarian was assigned to help a few of us with some
special projects. I consulted him about `my married problem.'
He finally located some very old documents, `Le Courtenay (Devon)
Familie, MSS' in the Bodleian Library. I read the old pages and
became fascinated. I suddenly found a clue....I copied the
following, "...Hugh de Courtenay, earl of Devon, died in 1340.
He was suc. by his son Hugh, b. Jl. 12, 1303; mar. Aug. 11, 1325,
to Lady Margaret de Bohun, as her second husband. She was a
granddaughter of Edward I and daughter of the Earl of Hereford
and Essex. He was kn. 1327; they had eight sons and nine
daughters...."
I'd appreciate comments on the possible validity of this
information and would like to know if anyone else here is
researching this particular line and found similar stories.
Sorry to be so long-winded.
Michele Chavez
mch...@qnet.com
http://www.av.qnet.com/~mchavez
Nathaniel Taylor
In article <3411be81...@news.av.qnet.com>, mch...@qnet.com (Michele
Chavez) wrote:
>I'm working on a Bone line that claims descent from the de
>Bohun's through a "marriage" between Richard le Bon of Scotland,
>who supposedly married his distant English cousin, Margaret de
>Bohun. According a book called The Bone Family in America ...
Please provide author's name, date and place of publication.
> ... "As a result of tedious checking, begun in 1870-71, a list of direct
> male descendants from Sir Robert to William Bone of Pennsylvania has been
> compiled."
>(0) Humphrey, third Baron de Bohun (1109-87)
>(1) Sir Robert `le Bon' de Bohun (b. c1153); to Scotland in
>1174-83.
...
>(6) Sir Richard le Bon de Bohun (1297-1357)
[who allegedly married Margaret de Bohun]
...
>(20) William Bone (1670-1728): migrated in 1692 to that part of
>Chester County, Pennsylvania, which later became Lancaster
>County.....
This line seems fishy both in the male-line descent from Bohuns and in the
alleged marriage of Richard 'le Bon' to Margaret de Bohun. Victorian
"genealogists" crafting Anglo-Norman descents often wanted to have their
cake and eat it too--that is, they hoped to show a male-line link to a
family of the Norman period, and then also 'prove' a maternal descent from
a more recent (and often royally-descended) daughter of the main line of
that family, as if to redouble the claim of some obscure modern family to
represent an ancient powerful one. This fits that pattern and should
cause one to be doubly insistent on proof of each individual in each
generation of the alleged pedigree.
This observation does not itself prove this line invalid, but should be
food for thought. The author of your source describes the compilation of
the pedigree in the 1870s as 'tedious checking'. While this might be
taken to imply that the pedigree was compiled the right way (i.e. with
careful, time-consuming research), it more clearly shows that the (second)
author didn't appreciate the value or intrinsic interest of careful work
in the sources. Another reason to be dubious.
The first step in reviewing this pedigree is to establish with independent
proofs the origins of the Pennsylvanian in Northern Ireland, and, working
backwards, in Scotland.
--
Nat Taylor
Michele Chavez
Hi Nat,
nta...@fas.harvard.edu (Nathaniel Taylor) wrote:
>Please provide author's name, date and place of publication.
TITLE: History of the Bone family of America: descendants of
William Bone I to the mid-nineteenth century and some of his
ancestors.
AUTHOR(S): Bone, Robert Gehlmann, 1906- (Main)
PUBLISHED: Normal, Ill., 1972-
DESCRIPTION: v. illus. 28 cm.
NOTES: INCOMPLETE CONTENTS: v. 1. 1692-1850.
SUBJECTS: Bone family.
LC CALL NO.: CS71.B7111972
DEWEY CLASS NO.: 929/.2/0973
FORMAT: Book
LCCN: 73-152735 //r91
>> ... "As a result of tedious checking, begun in 1870-71, a list of direct
>> male descendants from Sir Robert to William Bone of Pennsylvania has been
>> compiled."
>
>>(0) Humphrey, third Baron de Bohun (1109-87)
>>(1) Sir Robert `le Bon' de Bohun (b. c1153); to Scotland in
>>1174-83.
>...
>>(6) Sir Richard le Bon de Bohun (1297-1357)
>[who allegedly married Margaret de Bohun]
>...
>>(20) William Bone (1670-1728): migrated in 1692 to that part of
>>Chester County, Pennsylvania, which later became Lancaster
>>County.....
>
>This line seems fishy both in the male-line descent from Bohuns and in the
>alleged marriage of Richard 'le Bon' to Margaret de Bohun. Victorian
>"genealogists" crafting Anglo-Norman descents often wanted to have their
>cake and eat it too--that is, they hoped to show a male-line link to a
>family of the Norman period, and then also 'prove' a maternal descent from
>a more recent (and often royally-descended) daughter of the main line of
>that family, as if to redouble the claim of some obscure modern family to
>represent an ancient powerful one. This fits that pattern and should
>cause one to be doubly insistent on proof of each individual in each
>generation of the alleged pedigree.
>
>This observation does not itself prove this line invalid, but should be
>food for thought. The author of your source describes the compilation of
>the pedigree in the 1870s as 'tedious checking'. While this might be
>taken to imply that the pedigree was compiled the right way (i.e. with
>careful, time-consuming research), it more clearly shows that the (second)
>author didn't appreciate the value or intrinsic interest of careful work
>in the sources. Another reason to be dubious.
Thank you, Nat, for your comments. Even though this Bone line is
not my own (it's actually my ex-husband's and, therefore, my
son's] I don't want to accept anything that doesn't have evidence
to support it. The director of the Family History Center I
volunteer at told me that it is easier to do your own research
than it is to recreate someone else's research, but that I could
use it as a guide (i.e. places to look for records).
>
>The first step in reviewing this pedigree is to establish with independent
>proofs the origins of the Pennsylvanian in Northern Ireland, and, working
>backwards, in Scotland.
Sounds like a plan. Right now, I haven't gotten that far back.
I'm still working on the descendents:
1. John A. Jr BONE was born circa 1785 Rowan, North Carolina. He
married Martha Overstreet on 1 Feb 1814 Swaneetown, Illinois. He
died on 15 Aug 1855 Hickman, Kentucky.
[Some] Children of John A. Jr Bone and Martha Overstreet were as
follows:
2 i.Infant BONE was born in 1816 Hopkins, Kentucky.
3 ii.Nancy BONE was born circa 1822. She married John
William McWhorter on 3 Apr 1842 in Hickman Co, Kentucky. She died
in 1904. She was buried in 1904 in the McWhorter Family
Graveyard, Hickman, Kentucky.
There are hundreds of Bones in Hickman County. I've tried to
keep track of them all and it is quite confusing. I've put quite
a few into my database, but don't know for sure who is connected
to whom. And I've avoided putting any of the information from
the book into my data. There is a pedigree that I found on one
of the 1st two World Family Trees that must have come from a
similar source and somehow the compiler either neglected to put
in several generations and left some gaps or the estimated World
Family Tree dates were 200 years off. That made even a newer
"genealogist" (one year) such as myself just a wee bit
suspicious, even before I got my hands on the microfilm of the
book.
I did find reference (I'll have to look for where I put it) to a
history book that details the Scots migration from Scotland to
Northern Ireland to Pennsylvania to North Carolina, and hope to
find a copy of it and read it.
I certainly appreciate the comments of someone with more
experience. I haven't told my ex-husband or son of the claims of
this line and won't unless there are some facts to back them up.
It does feel good to have someone to discuss this with!
Michele Chavez
mch...@qnet.com
http://www.av.qnet.com/~mchavez/
Warwick J.Empson
mch...@qnet.com (Michele Chavez) wrote:
Michelle,
This is quite an interesting story you tell.
>The only evidence of the marriage that the book's author was able
>to find was in a library at Oxford among de Bohun family papers,
>which said that Margaret's marriage to de Courtenay was her
>SECOND marriage.
snip
>"About 1323, Sir Richard le Bon de Bohun, a descendant of the
>Scottish branch of the family mentioned earlier, was sent to
>England on a special mission. He visited his cousins, the family
>of Humphrey, the seventh Baron de Bohun,
Iv'e always known this Humphey as "Humphrey de Bohun VIII,
Earl of Hereford"??
>and fell in love with
>Margaret. They `married' and had a son, John. Before the latter
>was a year old, the family had the marriage annulled and Lady
>Margaret was married shortly thereafter (August 11, 1325) to Sir
>Hugh de Courtenay III (1303-77), Earl of Devon.
I think there might be a few discrepancies though.
Firstly Margaret would have been only 12 years old at the time of her
alleged marriage to Sir Richard. While it wasn't unusual for girls to be
betrothed at a young age, to have a child at the age of 12/13 would I
think be a bit too young??
> Sir Richard and
>his infant son lived in Scotland. The Scottish family soon
>thereafter dropped the de Bohun; so the son was known as John le
>Bon....
>
>I'd appreciate comments on the possible validity of this
>information and would like to know if anyone else here is
>researching this particular line and found similar stories.
I too have the deBohun family in my ancestry.
But in reality, I can't comment as to the validity of your
information, as my research has been on other of Humphrey VIII's
family and descendants.
Cheers,
.................Warwick Empson.
sonya...@yahoo.com
taf
> I am not sure where this will show up in the thread. I am checking to see
> how Robert Bone Thompsone Bonares deBohun is showing up in my lineage with
> the Thompsons. Can anyone help me with why the name would be like that?
taf
Andrew Lancaster
I guess the bigger point to make is that any name which is a single easy-to-pronounce syllable is going to literally have one or more possible explanations in every language. The neutral hypothesis is thus that names with the basic form of Bo-n have NUMEROUS origins even if we restrict ourselves to the geographically small area around the English channel and north sea.
Justin Bone
> This is a set of old surnames I am interested in because of my wife's Flemish Boons (who I know have cousins in the US). When I first started looking at such surnames I came across all the typical theories, connecting all Boons to Bohuns. I have since seen a 16th century parish register which translated the surname into Latin for a bean, which is what boon means in Dutch. But I also remain open to the idea that the surname in this part of Europe comes from Bononia (Boulogne-sur-Mer, older Dutch Bonen) because I have seen in older records that Boon and Bonen, Boonen etc were often interchangeable. I doubt that these surnames come from Romance Bon or any old Frankish personal names, at least in this part of Europe.
>
> I guess the bigger point to make is that any name which is a single easy-to-pronounce syllable is going to literally have one or more possible explanations in every language. The neutral hypothesis is thus that names with the basic form of Bo-n have NUMEROUS origins even if we restrict ourselves to the geographically small area around the English channel and north sea.
lancast...@gmail.com
pj.ev...@gmail.com
Aubrey Bone
My direct ancestry goes to a William Bone, my 8th great-grandfather born about 1697.
As one may imagine, there were many that went with the same given name.
I'm trying to make the connection with Margaret and Sir Richard le Bon de Bohun.
Aubrey Bone