Elizabeth le Latimer, wife of John de Camoys and Ralph de Ufford
Douglas Richardson
Back in July 2010, I posted evidence relating to the existence of a
hitherto unknown daughter of William le Latimer, Knt., 3rd Lord
Latimer, and his wife, Elizabeth Botetourt. This daughter was
Elizabeth le Latimer, who was living in 1365-6, as the wife of Ralph
de Ufford. See a copy of my earlier post below.
William le Latimer, Knt., and his wife, Elizabeth Botetourt, had one
other proven child, namely their son and heir, William la Latimer,
Knt., 4th Lord Latimer, who died in 1381
An abstract of the 1380 will of William le Latimer, Knt., 4th Lord
Latimer, is published in Nicolas,Testamenta Vetusta 1 (1826): 108. It
may be viewed at the following weblink:
Nicolas, Testamenta Vetusta 1 (1826): 108.
According to the terms of the will, William le Latimer, Knt., 4th Lord
Latimer, bequeathed the manor and advowson of the church of Wotton,
Surrey to his "cousin" Thomas Camoys. Clearly there was a near
relationship between the two men for Lord Latimer to have bequeathed
Thomas Camoys a manor. I've always assume that Thomas Camoys was Lord
Latimer's nephew, but did not have evidence to prove it. The only
other relative named in Lord Latimer's will was his daughter and
heiress, Elizabeth.
Reviewing my Camoys notes, however, I see that Thomas Camoys' father,
Sir John de Camoys, was living as late as 1362, when he disappears
from the records. My research indicates that in 1382–3 an Elizabeth
Camoys, possibly his widow, was paid 50s. by Sir Edward Courtenay,
Earl of Devon out of his manor of Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire [see
Devon & Cornwall Notes & Queries, 35 (1983): 156]. Sir Edward
Courtenay was the son-in-law of Sir John de Camoys, his wife being
John de Camoys' daughter, Maud.
Assuming we are dealing with the same person, it seems rather certain
that Elizabeth le Latimer, sister of William le Latimer, 4th Lord
Latimer, married (1st) before 1354 Sir John de Camoys (living 1362),
and (2nd) before 1365-6 Ralph de Ufford, and that she was living as
late as 1382-3, when she was granted 50s. by her son-in-law, Sir
Edward Courtenay, Earl of Devon. I also asssume that the document
dated 1365-6 to which Elizabeth la Latimer's seal was attached
involves property she held in dower of her Camoys marriage; otherwise,
under normal circumstances, her current husband Ralph de Ufford would
have joined her in the document.
This arrangement of the Latimer family gives the following 17th
Century New World immigrants a new descent from King Henry II of
England by way of Botetourt and Latimer families:
Samuel Argall, Charles Barham, Joseph Bickley, Charles & Leonard
Calvert, St. Leger Codd, James Cudworth, Henry Filmer, Henry Fleete,
Warham Horsmanden, Anne Lovelace, John & Margaret Nelson, Katherine
Saint Leger, Mary Johanna Somerset, Rose Stoughton.
Besides Elizabeth (le Latimer) (Camoys) Ufford, my research indicates
that there was yet another Latimer sibling who has gone unnoticed. In
1366 I find that William le Latimer, 4th Lord Latimer, founded a
chappellenie in Prières Abbey in Brittany in memory of his deceased
brother, Robert le Latimer, Knt. [see Jones, Recueil des Actes de Jean
IV, Duc de Bretagne 1 (1980): 129]. This evidence may be viewed in
part at the following weblink:
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
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COPY OF EARLIER POST
Dear Newsgroup ~
In my previous post, I discussed the heraldic evidence of a deed
executed in 1365-6 by a certain Elizabeth Latimer, allegedly wife of
the younger Robert de Ufford [see Waters, Chester of Chicheley 1
(1878): 329; Complete Peerage, 8 (1898): 1 (sub Ufford)]. The deed
and its accompanying seal were recorded by Robert Glover, and may be
found in Glover's Collections in the College of Arms, Volume A, folio
22b. This deed and its seal are elsewhere discussed in print in
Collectanea Topographica et Genealogica, 5 (1838): 154–155.
Accordiing to Coll. Top. et Gen. material, the deed was executed by
Elizabeth Latimer, wife of Ralph (not Robert) de Ufford. Attached to
the deed in question was the seal of Elizabeth Latimer displaying the
arms of Ufford Earl of Suffolk, differenced with a label, impaling the
coat of Latimer, and between the words of the circumscription,
‘Sigillum Elizabethe Ufford,’ are three shields of the arms of
Botetourt.
Due to the configuration of the arms on this seal, the author of the
Coll. Top. et Gen. item expressed his opinion that this seal belonged
to "a daughter of that William le Latimer who married Botetourt's
daughter." This is because the arms of Ufford are impaled with
Latimer, which would normally be the configuration for a Latimer woman
who was the wife of an Ufford husband. Later Waters and Complete
Peerage, 8 (1898):1 (sub Ufford) raised the question that this
Elizabeth Latimer's husband's name might not be Robert de Ufford,
rather than Ralph de Ufford as recorded by Glover; in fact, Waters
accepted that this deed was executed by Elizabeth Botetourt, wife
successively of William le Latimer and Robert de Ufford the younger.
However, the seal itself proves this is not correct as the Ufford arms
are impaling Latimer, meaning that Latimer was the lady's maiden name,
not the name of her former husband. Also, the deed indicates that
Elizabeth Latimer was then wife of Ralph de Ufford. There is no
evidence whatsover that Robert de Ufford the younger was living as
late as 1365-6. In fact, he last occurs in records in 1344, a full
21-22 years before the date of this deed. There is evidence that
Robert de Ufford the younger was dead before 1362.
Having given the matter some thought, I concur with the author in
Coll. Top. et Gen. that this deed was executed by Elizabeth Latimer,
wife of Ralph de Ufford, which woman was a daughter of William le
Latimer and his wife, Elizabeth Botetourt. While the seal can not be
used as evidence that Botetourt was this lady's maiden name (as I
stated in my previous post), due to the appearance of three shields of
the arms of Botetourt on the seal, this is good evidence that
Botetourt was this Latimer lady's mother's maiden name. It was a
common practice in this period for high born women to place their
mother's arms on their seal, usually off to the side of the main set
of arms which displays the woman's arms impaled with that of their
husband.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Douglas Richardson
"Notice" of the seal of Elizabeth Latimer, wife of Ralph de Uford,
dated 1365-6 is mentioned in the book, Index to the Additional
Manuscripts Preserved in the British Museum (1849): 467. This
reference may be seen in the following weblink:
The seal is evidently discussed in Additional MS. 5485, folio 106.
Douglas Richardson
As noted in my earlier post today, Thomas Camoys, was a legatee in the
1380 will of his uncle, William le Latimer, K.G., 4th Lord Latimer
(died 1381), by which he inherited the manor of Wotton, Surrey.
In 1375, some years before the date of this will, William le Latimer,
4th Lord Latimer, was also granted various tenements and houses in
Calais by the king formerly held by John Dayre, with remainder in male
tail to Thomas Camoys [see Cal. Patent Rolls, 1374–1377 (1916): 117].
On William le Latimer's death in 1381, the Calais property duly passed
to Thomas Camoys [see Cal. Close Rolls, 1381–1385 (1920): 61].
Eventually the property fell to Thomas Camoys' younger son, Sir Roger
Camoys. In 1465 Sir Roger Camoys in turn granted an inn called
“Nettelbedd” with two tenements in St. Nicholas, Calais to his nephew,
William Hastings, Lord Hastings [see Rpt. on MSS of the late Reginald
R. Hastings 1 (Hist. MSS Comm. 78) (1928): 273, 275–276]. Presumably
this is the same property granted back in 1375 to William le Latimer.
In 1372 William le Latimer, 4th Lord Latimer, paid 1000 marks to have
all the lands of Emeline, widow of Edward de Courtenay, during the
nonage of Emeline's son and heir, Edward Courtenay [future Earl of
Devon] [see Cal. Close Rolls, 1369–1374 (1911): 407, which record may
be viewed at the following weblink:
http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FHMedieval2&CISOPTR=60959&REC=12
The marriage of young Edward Courtenay is not mentioned in this
record, but records show that Edward Courtenay married sometime before
31 May 1383 to William le Latimer's niece, Maud Camoys (sister of
Thomas Camoys above).