Douglas and Dacres

[PEhle...@aol.com]

Sir James Douglas (1388-?) = ?
Joan (Mary) Douglas = William Dacres (1360-1399)
Thomas Lord Dacre of Gilsland (1387-1457) = Philippa Neville (1386-1453)

Can anyone identify the mother of Joan Douglas? Does anyone have her paternal
or maternal ancestry>
TIA
Regards
Phyllis

[ED MANN]

Joan was illegitimate, and her mother is, AFAIK, unknown.

Ancestors of Joan Douglas

Generation No. 1

1. Joan Douglas. She was the daughter of 2. James Douglas. She
married (1) William de Dacre. He was the son of Hugh de Dacre and Ela
Maxwell.

Child of Joan Douglas and William de Dacre is:
i. Thomas de Dacre, born 27 Oct 1387 in Naworth Castle, Gillesland,
England; died 5 Jan 1457/58; married Philippe Neville Bef. 20 Jul 1399.

Generation No. 2

2. James Douglas, died 19 Aug 1388 in Otterburn. He was the son of 4.
William Douglas and 5. Margaret de Mar.

Child of James Douglas is:
1 i. Joan Douglas, married William de Dacre.

Child of James Douglas is:
i. William Douglas, died 1427 in France; married Elizabeth Stewart.

Generation No. 3

4. William Douglas, died 1384. He was the son of 8. Archibald
Douglas. He married 5. Margaret de Mar.
5. Margaret de Mar, died Bef. 1418. She was the daughter of 10.
Donald de Mar and 11. Isabel Stewart.

Children of William Douglas and Margaret de Mar are:
2 i. James Douglas, died 19 Aug 1388 in Otterburn; married in (never
married); married in (never married); married (3) Isabella Stewart 25
Sep 1371.
ii. Isabel Douglas, died 1419 in (d.s.p.); married (1) Malcolm
Drummond; married (2) Alexander Stewart Bef. 1419.

Child of William Douglas and Margaret is:
i. George Douglas, died Aft. 14 Sep 1402 in (of plague) in England;
married Mary Stewart 1397.

Generation No. 4

8. Archibald Douglas, died 1333. He was the son of 16. William
Douglas and 17. Elizabeth Steward.

Child of Archibald Douglas is:
4 i. William Douglas, died 1384; married (1) Margaret de Mar; met (2)
Margaret in (never married).

10. Donald de Mar, died 12 Aug 1332. He was the son of 20. Gratney de
Mar and 21. Christian de Bruce. He married 11. Isabel Stewart.
11. Isabel Stewart.

Children of Donald de Mar and Isabel Stewart are:
i. Thomas de Mar, died Abt. 1374 in (d.s.p.).
5 ii. Margaret de Mar, died Bef. 1418; married William Douglas.

Generation No. 5

16. William Douglas. He married 17. Elizabeth Steward.
17. Elizabeth Steward.

Children of William Douglas and Elizabeth Steward are:
i. James Douglas, died 1330 in Theba, Spain; married in (never
married).
8 ii. Archibald Douglas, died 1333.

20. Gratney de Mar, died Bef. 1305. He was the son of 40. Donald de
Mar and 41. Helen verch Llewellyn. He married 21. Christian de Bruce.
21. Christian de Bruce, died Abt. 1357. She was the daughter of 42.
Robert Bruce and 43. Margery de Carrick.

Children of Gratney de Mar and Christian de Bruce are:
10 i. Donald de Mar, died 12 Aug 1332; married Isabel Stewart.
ii. Ellen de Mar, died Aft. 1341; married John Menteith Abt. 1321.

--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.

Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com

References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of
the Princess of Wales_, [page].
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat emptor.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.
WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat emptor.
WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page]

[William Addams Reitwiesner]

EDL...@MAIL2.LCIA.COM (ED MANN) wrote:

Note that this marriage of William and Margaret occurred shortly before 13
November 1357, and that their son James, Earl of Douglas (number 2 above),
was born around 1358. Note also that James's alleged grandson Thomas Lord
Dacre of Gilsland was born at Naworth Castle on 27 October 1387. Which
means that James would have to be a grandfather at 29.

Apart from the chronological difficulties, there's no record evidence that
James had any such daughter. See the second edition of Cokayne's *Complete
Peerage*, vol. IV, p. 6, note (g).

William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com

"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc."