Fw: THE OPDENGRAEFF ANCESTRY IN THE CANTICLE OF CLEVES
OPDENGRAAF26
1. What we really need from your expertise---is a complete INTERNET LISTING
AND PRINTOUT of all 63 KINDERMACHER LINES of the House of Cleves---all known
descendants of Johann II der Kindermacher (1458--1521)---including the three
NOBLE BORN lines, the eight MORGANATIC lines, and the alleged 52 PROLETARIAN
lines known as the KINDER VON CLEVE (Kinder von Kleve) whether listed
euphemistically as natural or unregistered or directly as bastard and
illegitimate.
2. We (the royal WE) beg you for this information---for several PERSONAL
reasons: ONE, We have taken a vow of poverty. TWO, We are already poor.
THREE, there is no more money in the Royal Coffers for genealogical
investment. FOUR, We wish to keep the PEACE between the Roman Catholics of
the West, the Greek Orthodox of the East, and the Protestant Reformation of
the North (at least until WE get this needed information).
3. We (the royal WE) beg you for this information---for several
GENEALOGICAL reasons: ONE, We do not completely understand the relationship
between the alleged CANTICLE OF CLEVES and the alleged CANTING HERALDRY on
the alleged FOUR OP DEN GRAFF WINDOWS OF KREFELD (A.D.1630)---two of which
windows are listed as EXTANT as of their reappearance in Krefeld in 1981.
TWO, We believe the Kindermacher lines were granted permission to live on
the SCHEUTEN ESTATE from which several of these families became over that
150 year period (1482--1632) Protestant in persuasion and signers of the
Mennonite Confession of Dordrecht (1632). THREE, We believe the ONLY HARD
EVIDENCE of the correct Altena lineage from the House of Cleves---is the
correct alignment of the Canting Heraldry against the SCRIBBLE AND GARBLE of
our humble effort to rescue the alleged CANTICLE OF CLEVES from the dustbin
of lost history (Historia, not Hysteria). FOURTH, We believe this small
part of the QUEST FOR THE HOLY GRAIL saga is legitimate
RESEARCH---regardless of the linguistic limitations of the
Presenter---Otherwise, THE INVALID HIMSELF, our Johann Wilhelm von Kleve
(1652--1609), stands as the alleged father of the Mennonite lord bishop of
Krefeld, one Hermen op den Graff van de Aldekerk (1585--1642)---due to the
unchallenged heraldry of THE HOLY MARY of the Arms of Julich of Panel A, the
LOHENGRIN SWAN of the Arms of Cleves of Panel D, and the alleged TRIPLE
HEART SHIELD of the Arms of Dusseldorf of Panel G---at the same time the
alleged CANTING HERALDRY of Panel E remains to haunt us for another 38 years
(the figure wearing the ermine robe of a bishop or baron of the Order of the
Holy Roman Empire)---Is it Hermen op den Graff??? (the ermine above the
embankments???) the morganatic or natural son of the Nun de Aldekerk???
4. After some 400 years---WE would sincerely like to know whether our
alleged Altena line of the House of Cleves descends from the Protestant side
of Aldekerk or the Roman Catholic side through the alleged Sister Anna of
the Resurrection (Anna Anastasis op den Graeff) of the Cloister of
Aldekerk---in morganatic union with the Monastic Canon of Cologne who just
happened to be (in the same lifespan) the Protestant Bishop of Munster---THE
INVALID HIMSELF, our Johann Wilhelm von Kleve (1562--1609).
5. Thank you for your contribution---and critical review---and
cross-examination---of any of this data.
Sincerely, your Krefeld and Germantown Cousin and Richfield Relative---Glenn
Wayne Miller opdeng...@msn.com ///
----- Original Message -----
From: "OPDENGRAAF26" <OPDENG...@email.msn.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:32 PM
Subject: THE OPDENGRAEFF ANCESTRY IN THE CANTICLE OF CLEVES
> Dear Medieval Researchers---Greetings from Philadelphia.
>
> 1. I was introduced to your list by our distant cousin Janet Ariciu of
Missouri (several weeks ago) and have spent some time browsing and searching
your Archives in an attempt to orient myself as to how to proceed.
>
> 2. My original emails with Janet and several other distant cousins concer
ned the lines of Awbrey (Aubrey) and Frey and Levering and Penn and Van de
Walle and Op den Graff (Opdengraeff, Op den Graeff, Updegraff, Updegrave,
ETC) as the assorted genealogical data collected by Samuel Whitaker
Pennypacker (1843--1916), Governor of Pennsylvania.
>
> 3. There is even speculation or documentation (or both) of a line of
Opdengraeff--Lucken--Potts--Barnhill--Roosevelt leading to President
Theodore Roosevelt and his neice First Lady Anna Elearnor Roosevelt---an
alleged line which has not appeared to date in any of the published works of
Mr. Gary Boyd Roberts.
>
> 4. We (the royal WE) claim no scholarship for ourself (ourselves)---and
therefore bow in genuine humility---and beg your help---in coming to
objective and rational terms with our 38 year old foundling (and adopted
BABY)---which we have christened (in the liturgy of sorting out the SCRIBBLE
FROM THE GARBLE) according to our understanding (or misunderstanding) of the
data---THE OPDENGRAEFF ANCESTRY IN THE CANTICLE OF CLEVES.
>
> 5. The July 2001 Update of this CANTICLE is a document printout of about
28 pages---which we will email to you at your request---should you choose to
get involved with this multifaceted mystery.
>
> 6. In our latest Update and Presentation---we have bypassed the
PISO--JOSEPHUS problem, diplomatically challenged the Laurence Gardner
research (while learning much from the exposure), and recited the extended
family of the Holy Grail as it emerges by revelation from the text of the
canonical New Testament (the format which we believe has been agreed upon by
the Roman Catholic Church of the West, the Greek Orthodox Church of the
East, and the Protestant Reformation of the North)---then proceeding along
the alleged line of the House of Bethany and Septimania---through the
Pellimore line of Lohengrin of Nijmegen and the House of Teisterbant and
Cleve---through the Altena lines of the United Dukedom of Julich and Cleves
and Berg---to the alleged line of OP DEN GRAFF as it appears in the Canting
Heraldry of the Op den Graff Windows (A.D.1630).///// For our Krefeld
Cousins and Richfield Relatives---we include several pages of the
Updegrave--Miller line in Pennsylvania.
>
> 7. OUR PROBLEM---and your hoped for CONTRIBUTION TO THE RESEARCH---Are we
dealing with one of the 52 Kindermacher lines of the House of Cleves (Johann
II der Kindermacher von Kleve 1458--1521) or through other morganatic and
natural and proletarian and unregistered and illegitimate and bastard and
non-hereditary lines of a CRESCENT SON (a second son)---such as the INVALID
HIMSELF---our JOHANN WILHELM VON KLEVE (1562--1609) the alleged Graaf van de
Aldekerk (count of the old church) of the Scheuten family manuscripts of
Krefeld and Weirhof and Cologne (Koeln)---the alleged Graff op den Graeff
van Altena (count of the embankments of Ancient Altena)---whose mother MARIA
VON HABSBURG (1531--1581) the Princess Imperial, the Princess of Germany,
the Princess of Bohemia and Hungary, the Archduchess of Austria, the Duchess
of Julich and Cleves and Berg, the Countess of Ravensburg and Ravenstein, as
the Graffin van Altena (the countess von Elten, comtesse d'Eltene) is
alleged to hav!
> e born the "ancient Altena title" as GRAFFIN OP DEN GRAEFF VAN ALTENA
(countess of the embankments of Altena---the "Graeff" of Julich and Kleve
and Berg).
>
> 8. Thank you for your consideration in giving us needed direction---and
for your interest in our quest---to rest after some 38 years of enthrallment
and captivity---and to get to THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER---by helping us to
sort out the GOLD from the STRAW.
>
> Sincerely your Krefeld and Germantown Cousin---and fellow
researcher---Glenn Wayne Miller opdeng...@msn.com ///
>
>
Nathaniel Taylor
OPDENG...@email.msn.com (OPDENGRAAF26) wrote:
>1. What we really need ... is a ... listing ... of all 63 KINDERMACHER LINES
>of the House of Cleves---all known descendants of Johann II der Kindermacher
>(1458--1521) ...
>
>3. ... We do not completely understand the relationship
>between the alleged CANTICLE OF CLEVES and the alleged CANTING HERALDRY on
>the alleged FOUR OP DEN GRAFF WINDOWS OF KREFELD (A.D.1630)---two of which
>windows are listed as EXTANT as of their reappearance in Krefeld in 1981...
>Sincerely, ... Glenn Wayne Miller opdeng...@msn.com ...
Dear Glenn,
You may get a response to your question about Johann II of Cleves, but I'm
sure you would get a greater response if your request was more concise and
to the point, and perhaps voiced in the singular.
Now, I can not help you with your query. But I am very curious: what is
the 'Canticle of Cleves' to which you allude? 'Canting heraldry' is
simply heraldry that embeds some pun or clever reference, often homonymous
with some name or epithet borne by the owner of the arms. A canticle is a
verse, like a hymn (compare the various 'canticles' in the Bible: the
canticle of the Virgin, the canticle of Simeon, etc.). So what is the
'Canticle of Cleves'?
Nat Taylor