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Parentage of Sir Gilbert Denys of Sistin
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Loren Varga
Oct 24, 2022, 2:27:21 PM10/24/22
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Dear Group: I am looking for information on the parentage of Sir Gilbert Denys of Siston Glos d.1422 MP.
He was married to a Margaret Corbet and a Margaret Russell.
In his article in HOP it states that he may have been a son of a William Denys and other places have him as a son of John Denys of Waterton and his wife Jane Dabernon.
Thnaks in advance for any information.
Regards:
Loren
He was married to a Margaret Corbet and a Margaret Russell.
In his article in HOP it states that he may have been a son of a William Denys and other places have him as a son of John Denys of Waterton and his wife Jane Dabernon.
Thnaks in advance for any information.
Regards:
Loren
Will Johnson
Oct 24, 2022, 4:06:12 PM10/24/22
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Sir Gilbert Deny's wife Margaret Russell was the elder co-heiress of her father Maurice
her sister being Isabel who later married Sir Stephen Hatfield
Her inheritance was slightly odd in that *although* she had a living half-brother Thomas who was clearly the heir male, properties had been entailed on her and her sister Isabel long long before Thomas was born.
Probably her aged father had already decided that his first wife Isabel Childrey was now barren and he had no chance for a male heir. Then she died.
He married secondly Joan Dauntsey
"aged 26" and heiress of her brother Walter who d.s.p. by Ipm 8h5 (1420)
She was thus some 37 to 39 years *younger* then he was, not the scandal it would be today
and they had a son Thomas
This Thomas was born soon enough to himself have an infant daughter, but both the daughter and her father Thomas were dead by 1432 when the remainder of the properties were then split between Margaret and Isabel.
HOP lists some sources C115/K2/6682 ff. 37d-39; C138/17/61; CFR, xiv. 175-6.
I guess the first two must be IPMs but I'm not quite sure how to look them up based on this type of reference
The third is the Calendar of Fine Rolls
Michael Cayley
Oct 25, 2022, 7:07:05 AM10/25/22
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The Fine Rolls entry mentioned by HOP is viewable on internet archives. It is from "Calendar of the Fine Rolls, Vol.XIV, Henry V, A>D> 1413-1422'", HMSO, 1934, pp. 175-6, https://archive.org/details/calendaroffiner14greauoft/page/174/mode/2up. It is an order to the escheator of 4 November 1416. It tells the escheator to give seisin of the property of Maurice Russell (deceased wife Isabel) at Durham (Dyrham), Gloucestershire to Maurice's daughters and their husbands: Margaret and her husband Gilbert Denys knight; and Isabel and her husband John Drayton knight.
I have tracked down one of the other references on HOP. It is on the Mapping the Medieval Countryside website, often a good place to look for IPMs. It is C 138/17/61 mm. 1-2 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/20-488/ - and relates to the partition of Durham between Margaret & Gilbert Denys, and Isabel & John Drayton.
Other entries relevant to Gilbert Denys on Mapping the Medieval Countryside that I have found are. On a quick glance, none of them cast light on Gilbert's parents, but they confirm his marriage to Margaret Russell and his being father of Maurice.
- E 149/107/12 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/20-686A/ (1416 IPM for Maurice Russell, names daughter Margaret as wife of Gilbert Denys)
- C 138/63/27 mm. 1-2 and E 149/126/5 m. 1 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/21-933/ (Gilbert's own IPM of 1422, mentions a kinsman Nicholas Denys and names son Maurice, 14 and more, as heir)
- E 149/126/5 m.2 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/21-933A/ (order to the escheator to take an oath that Gilbert's widow Margaret would not marry without royal permission, and then deliver her dower: his son Maurice was a minor)
- C 138/27/43 mm. 1-2, E 149/110/11 and C 138/27/43 mm. 3-4 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/20-784/ (IPMs of John Drayton, husband of Isabell Russell - refer to the partition of Dyrham between his wife Isabel and her sister Margaret)
- C 139/56/53 mm.1–2 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/23-721/ (1431 proof of age for Gilbert's son Maurice)
I have tracked down one of the other references on HOP. It is on the Mapping the Medieval Countryside website, often a good place to look for IPMs. It is C 138/17/61 mm. 1-2 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/20-488/ - and relates to the partition of Durham between Margaret & Gilbert Denys, and Isabel & John Drayton.
Other entries relevant to Gilbert Denys on Mapping the Medieval Countryside that I have found are. On a quick glance, none of them cast light on Gilbert's parents, but they confirm his marriage to Margaret Russell and his being father of Maurice.
- E 149/107/12 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/20-686A/ (1416 IPM for Maurice Russell, names daughter Margaret as wife of Gilbert Denys)
- C 138/63/27 mm. 1-2 and E 149/126/5 m. 1 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/21-933/ (Gilbert's own IPM of 1422, mentions a kinsman Nicholas Denys and names son Maurice, 14 and more, as heir)
- E 149/126/5 m.2 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/21-933A/ (order to the escheator to take an oath that Gilbert's widow Margaret would not marry without royal permission, and then deliver her dower: his son Maurice was a minor)
- C 138/27/43 mm. 1-2, E 149/110/11 and C 138/27/43 mm. 3-4 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/20-784/ (IPMs of John Drayton, husband of Isabell Russell - refer to the partition of Dyrham between his wife Isabel and her sister Margaret)
- C 139/56/53 mm.1–2 - https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/23-721/ (1431 proof of age for Gilbert's son Maurice)
Andrew Z
Oct 28, 2022, 8:49:59 PM10/28/22
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Although it can be hard to verify, the Golden Grove Book of Pedigrees indicates that Sir Gilbert's father was John Denys of Waterton:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11oLaQtRk5ZnnjVZXAxYgM7rjgXD4DYGQ/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z1sA3DWyEziHH7HfzelPycGSfFZyRv4F/view
John Denys is mentioned in this 1376 charter:
https://archive.org/details/cartaeetaliamuni04claruoft/page/1342/mode/1up
There's also the 1520 Dennis pedigree, but it's hard to make out the writing - let me know if you'd like me to try to take better photos of the upper part of the family tree:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cOUnn3r2Z-HUoGwEHNbLdMjcJJozcDmK/view
All the best,
Andrew
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