Early generations of Kaye of Thorpe, Almondbury

[Ian Goddard]

John Kaye of Woodsome is recorded as having six legitimate sons plus an
illegitimate son and six daughters. Of these the main lines from the
eldest son, Lawrence, and the fourth, Richard are documented in
visitations and the descent from Lawrence to the Lister Kayes is
particularly well known.

Unsurprisingly by the time parish register records start in the C16th
there were many Kaye families in the surrounding area and tracing any of
these back to the appropriate child of the original family is
challenging. Those living in Almondbury are particularly so by the
C17th when we find them in the manorial court records published by Peter
Hurst. However one distinct family in these records is that of Kaye of
Thorpe. (Thorpe was a settlement situated, like Woodsome, on the valley
side leading down to Fenay Beck, and about 1km north of the letter.) It
now appears that they descend from Peter, the third son of John of Woodsome.

From Ellis, Alfred S., (1884). Dodsworth's Yorkshire Notes (Agbrigg).
Yorks. Arch. & Topographical J.
Vol VIII:

A long footnote on Slaithwaite, pp 27-29 ends: "in the same year Maunton
and Cupper make John Rybenden their attorney to deliver seisin of the
above premises to John, son of William Cay, No. 75, according to the
tenor of a grant made to him by them in 49 Edw. III., No. 97. The year
1375 is therefore the exact period of the coming of the Kayes into
Yorkshire.

It ought to have been mentioned that in that year Maunton and Cupper
granted this manor of Slaithwaite to Collan and other chaplains to
enfeof in it, John, son of William Cay, for term of life in fee tail or
fee simple, remainder to his sons Lawrence, William and Peter in
succession remained to any other issue of John, son of William,
remainder to John, his bastard son, remainder to the right heirs, No. 84."

Given that Kayes are documented in Yorkshire at least a century earlier
than this date the statement that this marks their coming into Yorkshire
can be taken with a pinch of salt. However it tells us that Peter was,
in 1375, the most recetly born son. Allowing for a daughter or two in
the interim he may have been born about 1370-72.

From Brown, William, (Ed), (1922), Yorkshire Deeds Vol III, The
Yorkshire Archaeological Society Records Series Vol LXIII.
P 2 :
"6. St. Leonard’s day (Nov. 6), 1391. Grant by William Wodde of Longlay
to Peter de Thorpe, of an acre of land in the upper field (superiori
campo) of Almanbery, on the south side of the public way [regia via) and
abutting on the bam (orinm) of John de Aldolay, paying 4d. a year to the
chief lord on the feast of St. Andrew in winter (Nov. 30). Witnesses,
John Kay, William de Fenay, Adam Barker, John Parkyn, Peter Hudsun, John
Aldolay. Almanbery." with an editor's note:

"Seal: red wax, broken, a series of diagonal lines. Wednesday before St.
George (April 16), 1410. Adam Parkyn, son and heir of Robert Parkyn,
cobbler (sutor), granted the above to Peter Kay of Thorpe. Witnesses,
John Wode, John Parkyn, John Fenay, William Aldolay, Richard Thorpe.
Almanbery."

It's not clear whether the Peter do Thorpe of the main record was Peter
Kaye (the presence of Richard Thorpe in the wtnesses named in the not
suggest there was a separate Thorpe family) but the note makes clear
that there was a Peter Kay[e] of Thorpe by 1410 when Peter, son of John
of Woodsome would have been in his late 30s or so.

"7. Jan. 20, 9 Henry V (1421-2). At a court held at Almanbery, Magot by
ye Brok and John by ye Brok, her son, by Matthew Walker the lord’s
bailiff, surrendered a small garden in Almanbery, lying between the
tenement of Peter Kay on the west and the tenement of the said Magot and
John on the east, in Almanbery, to the use of William Smyth, chaplain,
and Robert Smyth his brother, who were admitted. Fine 4d"

"9. St. Simon and St. Jude, 21 Henry VI (Oct. 28, 1442). Grant by Peter
Kay of Thorp by Almunbery (Almu’ber’) to Robert Kay, Adam Kay, Henry Kay
and Peter Kay, his sons,3 of all his goods and chattels, movable and
immovable, to dispose of as they liked. Witnesses, John Wode of Longlay,
Laurence Wode, Robert Smyth, Thomas Langfeld, Thomas Blake, John Haston.
Thorp by Almunbery."

P 119:
"364. Grant in tail by William Turney, chaplain, and Thomas Coke of
Highbyrton to Robert Kay son of Peter Kay, of a messuage and all their3
4 lands, tenements, rents, etc., in Schelley, with remainders in tail
male to his brothers, Adam, Henry and Peter, and to Joan their sister.
Witnesses, John Byrton, lord of Byrton, Thomas Clayton, Adam Grene,
Richard Brownyll, William Brodehed."

There is an editor's note:
"A copy on paper with no watermark. The date has been omitted but a
comparison with No. 9 shows it must have been executed about 1442."

Although this refers to Shelley the following ties the Shelley property
to Thorpe. Shelley is on the opposite side of the Fenay valley and
closer to its head in the SE. Lepton, mentioned below is also on that
side and more or less opposite Woodsome.

Clay, Charles Travis, (Ed), (1926), Yorkshire Deeds Vol V, The Yorkshire
Archaeological Society Records Series Vol LXIX.

Pp 2-3:
4. Palm Sunday, 1 Edward IV (March 29, 1461). Grant by Alice Kay, widow
of Peter Kay of Almanber’, and Adam Kay of Schelley to John Newell, lord
Monttagu, John Seywell, knt., John Woddrofe of Wolley, Richard
Winteworth, John Kay, and Elias Burton, esqs., of all the said1 lands
and tenements in Almanber’ and Thorphe by Almanber’, and also of a
tenement in Royley within the bounds of Lepton, with a tenement in
Schelley. Witnesses, Richard Bemunt of Qwytteley, John Wodde of Longley,
Henry Bemunt of Lascelhalle. Almanber’.

5. March 22, 1 Henry VII (1485-6). Grant by Edmund Cay, son and heir of
Adam Cay, lately deceased, to Adam Beaumount of Twhonge and William Cay
of Fernley, of all his messuages, lands, tenements, meadows, woods,
pastures, rents, reversions and services, with appurtenances, lying
within the vill and territory of Almanbury, Rowley, hamelet of Lepton,
Shelley, and Clayton, or elsewhere in co. York, which descended to him
in hereditary right after the death of Adam Cay his father or came to
him by any right whatsoever. Also appointment by the same of Laurence
Cay of Almanbury and William Cay the latter’s son as joint attorneys to
enter and deliver seisin. Witnesses, John Cay of Wodesom, esq., Henry
Longley, William Appilyerd, the younger. Almanbury.

6. Oct. 20, 15 Henry VII (1499). Release and quitclaim by Charles Kay,
Miles Kay, and Oliver Kay, to Edmund Kay of all actions, both real and
personal, which they had or could have against him by reason of any
debt, account, trespass, debate, or other cause whatsoever from the
beginning of the world.

7. July 30, 34 Henry VIII (1542). This bill made the xxx day of Julie in
the xxxiiij yere of the reigne of our sovereigne lorde Henry the Eight
[etc] witnessith that Henry Yonge gentilman & Margarete his wife late
wife & executrix to John Beamount of Netherton & John Hill yonger hath
receyvid the day of makynge herof of Peter Kay of Thorpp ixli. sterlynge
the whiche somme of ixli. was delyuerid to the said Peter Kay by the
said John Hill, Margarete Yonge, & Thomas Beamount of the Okes, of the
whiche somme of ixli. sterlynge the said Henry Yonge, Margarete his
wife, & John Hill yonger doth knowleige theymselffs to be well & trulye
contentid satisfied & paid & the said Peter Kay his heires executors &
assignes therof to be discharged & acquytt foreuer by thies presents. In
witnes wherof the said Henry Yonge & John Hill yonger to this present
bill hath putto their seales the d[ay &] yere aboue written. Per me
Harry Yong.

8. June 5, 2 Edward VI (1548). Grant in tail by Peter Kay of Thorpp by
Almonbury, co. York, yeoman, to John Kay, his son and heir apparent, of
all his capital messuage called Thorpp within the bounds of Almonbury,
all lands, meadows, pastures, and woods at Thorpp in his tenure, a
messuage and certain lands and closes in Almonbury in the tenure of
William Kay and Thomas Burnes, a house with a barn (orio) and little
croft in Almonbury in the tenure of Katherine Baldwynson, widow; also
all his messuage in Rowley within the bounds of Lepton, and all lands,
meadows, pastures, and woods in the tenure of John Estwodd with
appurtenances in Lepton, a messuage in Shelley, and all his lands,
meadows, pastures, and woods in the tenure of Agnes Bothe, widow; also a
certain yearly rent of 13s. 4d. from a house, eighteen acres of land and
meadow, and from a. certain close called Aryngell Crofte in Clayton, co.
York. Witnesses, William Fenay, William Perkyn, John Beamount of Okes,
William Tyas, William Sonyer. Thorpp. Dorso: Seisin delivered by the
grantor, July 2, same year, in the presence of the same with the
addition of Thomas Beamount, gent."

A note against the last refers back to Peter's will as 11A in Vol III P3:

'11. April 28, 38 Henry VIII (1546). Receipt from William Romsden of
Longley, gent., to Peter Kaye of Thorppe, yeoman, for the sum of 505.,
due at the feast of St. Andrew the apostle last, “ in full contentacion,
satisfaccion and payment of and for one agreament heretofore made betwix
the said William Romsden on the one partie and the aboue namyd Peter Kay
on the other partie concernynge certen contrauersies and debates, hade
and mouid betwix the same parties, as by the said agreament made in
writynge indentid, berynge date the xxu day of Januarie in the xxxvu
yere of the Kynges maiestie reigne that nowe is (1543-4), more playnely
doth appere.” '

"11A. In the name of God, Amen. Mar. 12, 1559-60. Peter Kaye of Thorppe,
par. Almonburie, yoman. Fyrste I bequythe to Edmonde Kaye, sonne to John
Kaye, one masleyne panne, one greate arke standynge at the bed syde, one
grete arke in the seller and one borde clothe. To Peter Kaye, sonne to
the saide John, one quye, and to Isabell Kaye and Jennat Kaye, doughters
of the same John, [a] quye. To Margarete Rayner, my syster, Vs. To the
saide Edmonde Kaye one iron chymnaye, one chyste bounde w* iron, one
counter, one sylver spoyne and all my waynes, plowghs, yokes, harrowes,
axes, one iron teame wt all others ymplementes and neces¬ saries whiche
I have appertayninge to husbandre and the same to remayne at Thorpe in
the custodie of the sayde John Kaye, my sonne, and hys hayres, and to be
accomptede, usede, and taken in and bye the name of haire lomes.
Resydewe of all goodes to the sayde Peter Kaye, Humfraye Kaye, Isabell
Kaye and Jennat Kaye, chyldren to the sayde John, exors., and the saide
John, ther father, to have the rulle and governance, as well of the
sayde goodes as of the said children. Wytnesses, Willm. Fenay, Gyles
Kaye, and Thomas Wilkynson. Pr. Mar. 26, 1560."

A further item of interest in this is the connection to other branches
of the family, especially Shelley. The Kaye family of Shelley Hall were
descended from Richard, the fourth son of John of Woodsome, but there
appear to have been other Kayes in Shelley (mentioned in the Wakefield
MRs and Kirkburton PRs) with no obvious connection to the Hall and these
might be a branch of the Thorpe family.

The mention of Thong in the feofees of the 1480s is tantalising. Thong
could mean Upper- or Nether-thong according to context but the mention
of Beaumont makes the latter more likely. By the time of the first
Almondbury PRs there was a Kaye family in Netherthong, apparently
already with several branches. Was this also descended from Peter?

[Stewart Baldwin]

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 7:49:40 AM UTC-6, Ian Goddard wrote:
> John Kaye of Woodsome is recorded as having six legitimate sons plus an
> illegitimate son and six daughters. Of these the main lines from the
> eldest son, Lawrence, and the fourth, Richard are documented in
> visitations and the descent from Lawrence to the Lister Kayes is
> particularly well known.
>

...

>
> The mention of Thong in the feofees of the 1480s is tantalising. Thong
> could mean Upper- or Nether-thong according to context but the mention
> of Beaumont makes the latter more likely. By the time of the first
> Almondbury PRs there was a Kaye family in Netherthong, apparently
> already with several branches. Was this also descended from Peter?

Did any of these cadet lines get as far north as Scarborough? The well-documented part of the Kay(e) line I have researched in the area starts with two brothers. One of these was John Kay of Scarborough, "gent." whose will was dated 12 June 1677, proved 22 October 1677 (Prerogative and Exchequer Court of York, registered will, vol. 57, fol. 551). I am a descendant of his brother Ralph Kay of Allerston, co. York, buried at Allerston, 28 December 1686 (will dated 10 April 1686, proved 29 April 1687, Dean of York peculiar). I descend from quite a few families in this area of the North Riding through an ancestor who came to America in the mid-1800's. Many of them lived in nearby parishes with better records where I have had better luck, but Scarborough and Allerston both have only scattered parish registers (surviving as BT's) earlier than the late 1600's. Given that John Kay describes himself as "gentleman" in his will, I have wondered whether he came from a cadet line of the Kayes of Newsome, but my well-documented trail ends at these two brothers. There is a baptism in the Scarborough BT's for a Ralph son of John Key on 7 April 1626 who could be my Ralph Kay, but there are too few surviving years in the registers to get a reasonable picture, and the few records of people in the early to mid-1600's named Kay(e)/Key in Scarborough and Allerston do not fit together that well, suggesting caution in reaching any further conclusions on the scattered evidence I have found. Have your researches in the Kaye family included individuals in this part of North Yorkshire?

Stewart Baldwin

[Chris Dickinson]

I'm a little wary about social status descriptions in this period between town and country. My own studies of West Cumberland in the late seventeenth century might suggest that Whitehaven merchants with money were awarded an inflated status that their country cousins, even if better educated, were denied.

Chris

[Ian Goddard]

There's a Kaye DNA study that indicates that the family is of single
origin. Their website also has a paper by George Redmonds suggesting
that John (of Woodsome), son of William is a John son of William found a
few years earlier in Lancashire. However a John Kaye of Wakefield is
found quite early in the Wakefield manorial rolls - i.e. in the 1270s
through to the early 1300s. It turns out that he was actually a
manorial official and took various opportunities to enrich himself.
After his death a German Kaye, presumably the eldest son and heir, had
to make good on one of these. It looks as if he also had siblings in
Wakefield and there's also one Kaye woman who has gone to Rome - a cse
has to wait for her return although, all too typical of the source, we
never get the outcome.

Later in the C14th there are a few references to Kayes of Wakefield. I
think it may have been yourself who pointed out to me one armigerous
family in Wakefield whose arms bear no resemblence of those claiming
descent from Woodsome so it seems likely that there were contemporary
branches of the family there.

Interestingly I found a few other scattered families in the Yorks. Deeds
- I didn't note them down but must go over them. There were at least a
couple of places well away from Wakefield and also IIRC fairly early.
Assuming that these lines survived and are part of the DNA study it
points to there being a rather earlier common ancestor than anticipated.

There are a few Kayes other then John of Woodsome in the 1379 Poll Tax
records and the surviving published rolls only cover the West Riding.

In short, they're a complicated family but here in the Holme Valley with
the 7 sons born just down the road they're a nightmare. I have several
lines of them which must join up in those brothers. I think I can trace
one or two back to the Shelley/Heath family who descend from Richard and
just happened to stumble on the Peter or Thorpe line in passing and it
helps unpick them a little.

Just to add to the complication Humphrey Kaye of Totties, son of John
Kaye of Mailshaw, had 10 children. (Her daughter Sara, who married a
Humprhrey Wilson clearly inherited her mother's fecundity. She was born
a little after the Armada, died 90 years later a little before the
Glorious Revolution and had 20 children including 3 sets of twins.)

Ian

[Ian Goddard]

On 05/01/2021 16:26, Stewart Baldwin wrote:

> Did any of these cadet lines get as far north as Scarborough?

Undated from Hunmanby, Yorks Deeds Vol VIII p75, no 217 mentions a Hugh
son of Kay. Given the style of epithets - de Gant, de le Stane, son of
etc it looks rather earlier than any of these lines. I've seen my own
surname emerge from "son of Godard" to become a hereditary surname in
Cowick in late C13th/early C14th. This raises the possibility of a Kay
surname arising a lot closer to Scarborough than the West Riding family.

Ian