Talbot Stonor connection?

[jma...@msn.com]

I noticed in Kingsford's Stonor Letters that Gilbert Talbot 3rd Baron Talbot (d, 1387) addressed Edmund Stonor (d. 1382) as his very dear cousin. I realize cousin has many possible meanings, but I am not seeing one unless it is through Edmund's wife who appears to be a daughter of Gerard de Lisle.

[jma...@msn.com]

On Monday, October 11, 2021 at 11:07:42 PM UTC-4, jma...@msn.com wrote:
> I noticed in Kingsford's Stonor Letters that Gilbert Talbot 3rd Baron Talbot (d, 1387) addressed Edmund Stonor (d. 1382) as his very dear cousin. I realize cousin has many possible meanings, but I am not seeing one unless it is through Edmund's wife who appears to be a daughter of Gerard de Lisle.

Not the best written question, but the answer appears to be Gilbert's grandmother (Ann Butler of Wem) was the sister of William Butler of Wem. William's great granddaughter was Edmund Stonor's wife, Elizabeth Le Strange. Second cousins once removed?

[ache...@gmail.com]

An interesting possibility- The Stonors/Stonards of Loughton, in Essex might be associated with these Oxfordshire Stonor's, if the arms on the monument of Francis Stonor, Esq., son of George Stonard, Esq. (the Keeper of Ongar Forest) are to be believed. Said George perhaps being the ancestor of Sarah Barefoot, wife of Thomas Wiggan of Hampton, NH. I had initially discounted the possibility of an Essex-Oxfordshire association, since the Stonor/Stonard arms noted in the Visitation of Essex did not match those of the main Oxfordshire line.

From Visitation of the County of Suffolke; by William Hervey, Clarenceux King of Armes, 1561; Pub. 1868, London; Vol. II, pg. 299

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitation_of_Suffolke/6BoaAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Stonard+Loughton&pg=PA299&printsec=frontcover

Re: Francis Stonor/Stonard of Knowles Hill in Stapleford Abbot, son of George Stonard of Loughton-

Quote- "The Arms of Stonor, or Stonard, Asure, 2 bars dancettee Or, a chief Argent, as they appeared on these monuments in Loughton and Stapleford, are precisely the same as those of Stonor, of Stonor in Oxfordshire, in whom the Barony of Camoys is now vested. There can be little doubt that the Stonors, of Loughton and Stapleford, are a branch of that family, although we are unable to point out the common ancestor."

The apparent discrepancy between the Arms noted in the Visitation of Essex and that of monument to Francis Stonard is mentioned in the notes on page 7 of Loughton-in-Essex Part II. Several family wills follow.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Loughton_in_Essex/rAQVAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Arms+Stonor+Loughton&pg=RA2-PA7&printsec=frontcover

To restate Sarah's possible (dependant upon sealing Sarah and siblings to John their presumed father)

John Stonerde, Yeoman (1st of Loughton with 40 year lease), had wives Joanne & Katherine
George Stonard, Esq. of Loughton & Mary
Katherine Stonard (sister of Francis, Esq.) & Thomas Barfoot, Gent of Lambourne
Edward Barfoot, Gent. of Lambourne & Winifred Hildersham
Thomas Barfoot, Gent. of Lambourne & Sarah Culverwell (dau. Rev Ezekiel Culverwell)
John Barefoot, Gent. & Mary Goodman (dau. Thomas Goodman/Godman, Esq. of Leatherhead, Surrey)
perhaps parents of siblings
Sarah Barfoot & Thomas Wiggan of Hampton, NH
Mary Barfoot & Dr. Henry Greenland of Piscataway, NJ
Dep. Gov./Capt./Chirugeon Walter Barfoot of Kittery, ME and other Piscataqua environs

Thanks for the post, I apologize for any typos, and best regards to all
Richard

[ache...@gmail.com]

This particular history suggests that Sir William Stonor (b. c. 1450), son of Thomas Stonor, Esq. and Joan de la Pole, also had 3 brothers- Thomas, John, and Edmund. That would place the later brother's births between say 1450 and 1465, since there were also at least 4 daughters born to the couple.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_History_and_Antiquities_of_the_Count/zyYgAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=sTONOR+Essex&pg=PA99&printsec=frontcover

The brother John would be of approximately the right age to have been the same as John Stonerd/Stonor/Stonard who was the yeoman of Loughton in Essex, hence perhaps explaining the use of the arms of the Oxfordshire branch on the Loughton monuments.

[ache...@gmail.com]

And yes that could suggest a royal descent from Edward I via Joan, the illegitimate daughter of Sir Wm. de la Pole.

[ache...@gmail.com]

Pg. 53 & 54. John and son George certainly turn up in Loughton with considerable financial means compared to their neighbors.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Loughton_in_Essex/rAQVAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=John+Stonard+George+Loughton+100&pg=RA2-PA12&printsec=frontcover

Not exactly peasant farmers.

[ache...@gmail.com]

And according to this pedigree chart, John's will mentions a brother Thomas (seemingly depicted as elder on the chart) which would fit with the offspring of Thomas Stonor and Joan de la Pole. He also seems to have had a daughter named Jane who is said to have married William Webster. Named for her mother perhaps?

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Miscellanea_Genealogica_Et_Heraldica/l1tIAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Jane+Stonerde+William+Webster&pg=PA105&printsec=frontcover

[ache...@gmail.com]

John Stoner/Stonard's Essex will dated 24 April 1532 would be interesting to view if anyone has access. If it mentions in-laws or cousins named Cottesmore, Barantyne or Harcourt it could further cement him to prospective parents Thomas Stonor & Joan de la Pole (some of their daughter's known husbands).

Also at the other end of this prospective lineage to the New World, if anyone finds say an Oxford or Cambridge, etc. Alumnus citation for Walter Barfoot/Barefoot about 1650's (since he practiced as a surgeon) that would perhaps name his father.

Thanks,
Richard