John Thwaites b. 1360, wife Joan de Thornton, need ancestry of
don
was Joan de Thornton b. ca. 1370?
Can't find anything on internet.
Thanks
Don
WJho...@aol.com
In a message dated 1/26/2010 9:46:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
donm...@hotmail.com writes:
-----------------
Toss out those dates. They are not based on anything.
They are bad guesses, based solely on when his children and grandchildren
*died*.
Which is the worst kind of guess.
Come forward two generations and then start looking for *primary*
documentation, then you'll be on the right foot.
Will Johnson
John
FWIW (not necessarily very much), John Thwaites of Thwaites who
married as his 1st wife Joan Thornton is shown in one of several
pedigrees of various Thwaites families in "Yorkshire
Pedigrees" (edited by J. W. Walker), published as vol . 96 of the
Harleian Society's Visitation Series in 1944. Offhand I don't know
the provenance of this specific pedigree - you'd have to check the
cited volume for that.
This John Thwaites, who married 1st Joan, dau. of Robert Thornton and
2nd Isabellla, dau. of Sir William Ryther, is indicated as having a
will dated 22 Jan 1462, so it's very unlikely if not impossible that
he was born ca. 1360. In this pedigree John's father is said to be
Thomas Thwaites of Thwaites (no wife indicated) who was son of another
Thomas (of Harewood 1353 and of Gainsborough 1367) and his wife
Margaret.
Caveat lector....
Louise Staley
wrote:
I am not aware that the ancestry of John Thwaites is known but I have
a source that says he died in 1469.
Source: Thweatt, Silas Allen, Nine Hundred Years of Thweatt (Alhambra,
California, Alhambra Review Printing Company, 1959), P 26. "There was
a John Thwaites of Denton (temp) Henry VI, a lawyer of considerable
repute, who was legal advisor to Thomas, Lord Clifford. John Thwaites
died at Denton in 1469." From "Upper Wharfedale" by H. Speight, p.
175.
Louise
wjhonson
>
> I am not aware that the ancestry of John Thwaites is known but I have
> a source that says he died in 1469.
>
> Source: Thweatt, Silas Allen, Nine Hundred Years of Thweatt (Alhambra,
> California, Alhambra Review Printing Company, 1959), P 26. "There was
> a John Thwaites of Denton (temp) Henry VI, a lawyer of considerable
> repute, who was legal advisor to Thomas, Lord Clifford. John Thwaites
> died at Denton in 1469." From "Upper Wharfedale" by H. Speight, p.
> 175.
>
> Louise
The 1469 would appear to be a guess as to when his 1462 Will was
actually probate. Evidently the year is not certain, perhaps the
original document is hard to read. You can see this uncertainty
mentioned here
http://books.google.com/books?id=TqJCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA454#v=onepage&q=&f=false
in Dugdale's Visitation of Yorkshire, page 454
Will Johnson
ljbl...@gmail.com
>
> Would anyone have any ancestry of John Thwaites b. ca. 1360 whose wife
> was Joan de Thornton b. ca. 1370?
> Can't find anything on internet.
> Thanks
> Don
>
>
> -----------------
>
> Toss out those dates. They are not based on anything.
> They are bad guesses, based solely on when his children and grandchildren
> *died*.
> Which is the worst kind of guess.
>
> Come forward two generations and then start looking for *primary*
> documentation, then you'll be on the right foot.
>
> Will Johnson
> Would anyone have any ancestry of John Thwaites b. ca. 1360 whose wife
> was Joan de Thornton b. ca. 1370?
> Can't find anything on internet.
> Thanks
> Don
Sir John Thwaites of Tate born about 1390ish, had two wives Isabel Ryther and Jane Thornton. His Father John Thwaites was born in about 1360 and his wife was Joan DeThornton.
I am also trying to confirm which children descended form with mother Isabel or Jane.
I see that this is a very old email. But if you have EVER figured this out... I am more than interested, cause there is something amiss!!
Thank you,
Lisa Blackburn
John Watson
John Thwaite's father is not known with any certainty, but he was probably Thomas Thwaites of Lofthouse who was living in 1411.
John Thwaites of Lofthouse near Harewood, Yorkshire married Joan daughter of Robert Thornton of York about 1423-4:-
3 July 1425, Order to William Ormesheved, mayor and escheator of York, to take the fealty of John Thwaytes who has taken to wife Joan daughter and heir of Robert Thornton, and cause the said John and Joan to have full seisin of all the lands in his bailiwick which the said Robert Thornton held of the king in chief or was seised of in his demesne as of fee on the day of his death, as the king for one mark paid in the hanaper has respited until Martinmas next the homage due from John by reason of his having issue by Joan.
Calendar of Fine Rolls, vol. 15, Henry VI: 1422-1430 (1935), 98.
John Thwaites married secondly, about 1439, Isabel daughter of William Rither: -
1439-40, Nos Will'ms Ryther ch'l'r et Robertus de Thwaytes clericus, dedimus Johani de Thwaytes et Isabellae vxori eius et haaredibus masculis de corporibus suis legitime procreatis medietatem Manerii de Denton etc. pro defectu' rem' Thomae de Thwaytes filio praed'c'i Joh'is et haeredibus masculis, pro defectu' rem' Matildae vxori Johannis Myddelton filiae praed'c'i Johannis Thwaytes et haeredibus masculis, pro defectu' rem' rectis haeredibus praed'c'i Joh'is Thwaytes &c. Dat apud Denton anno 18 H. 6.
"Genealogical Memoranda Relating to the Family of Vavasour", Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica, New Series, vol. 2 (1876), 275.
Thomas Thwaites and Maud Thwaites, wife of John Middleton, were the children of John's first marriage to Joan Thornton.
Regards,
John