Strode, Thomas, of Stoke sub Hamdon, Somerset - d 1595
Robert O'Connor
+++++++++
THOMAS STRODE, of Stoke sub Hamdon, Somerset., Born c. 1540. M c. 1566
Theophilia (She M 2nd 6 Aug. 1596 at Stoke sub Hamdon, Anthony Parsons,
"Gentleman", of Martock, Somerset). Bur. 25 April 1595 at Stoke sub
Hamdon - recorded in the burial register as "Thomas Strode, Esquire". He
had issue:
1.John, of Stoke sub Hamdon., Bapt. 11 July 1568 at Stoke sub Hamdon.
Recorded as "aged 16" he matriculated at Broadgates Hall, Oxford University,
26 Feb. 1584/5. Recorded as "son & heir of Thomas Strode, Esq., of Stoke,
Somerset" he entered the Middle Temple as a student, 1586. M Gertrude, d.
of John Hippersley, Esq., & his wife Dorothy, d. of Sir John Horner, Kt., of
Clovert, Somerset.
2.Thomas, Bapt. 21 Nov. 1571 at Stoke sub Hamdon.
3.Elizabeth, Bapt. 14 June 1575 at Stoke sub Hamdon. M c. 1591 Richard
Phelips, Esq., of Corfe Mullen, Co. Dorset. (Born c. 1570 & Died before
1612). Recorded as "Elizabeth late wife of Richard Phelips of Corfe Mullen
deceased" she received a grant of an annuity from her husband's uncle Sir
Edward Phelips out of the Manor of Montacute, 1612. An Exemplification of a
decree in Chancery was issued involving her husband's 1st cousin Sir Robert
Phelips against her, she recorded as "Elizabeth Phelips widow of Richard
Phelips of Corfe Mullen, nephew of Sir Edward Phelips", & her sons Thomas,
Edward & Richard, relating to claims on an annuity granted by Sir Edward
Phelips, 1630-3. Died after 1630-3.
4.Thomas, Bapt. 14 July 1579 at Stoke sub Hamdon.
5.Ann, Bapt. 28 May 1582 at Stoke sub Hamdon.
+++++++++
Can anyone trace the parentage of Thomas Strode d 1595?
With thanks
Robert O'Connor
Reedpcgen
Stoke-sub-Hamdon, Somerset (d. 1595), possibly born about 1540, but you are
probably aware of the likely association with the Strode family of Dorset,
which had a branch bearing the name Thomas in Somerset. It is also interesting
that this Thomas's daughter Elizabeth married Richard Pheilps, esquire, of
Corfe, Mullen, Dorset.
Thomas Strode, of Shepton Mallet, Somerset, died leaving two sons, John and
Edward Strode. Edward's widow Alice Whiting left a will in 1593, which would
seem to place this family at roughly the same period. There was an Edward
Stroude, the elder, of Shepton Mallet, Somerset, who left a will in 1555, PCC
F. 41 More, but I have not checked it. Perhaps more interesting would be the
will of Thomas Strowde, esquire, of Butley, Somerset, in 1544, PCC F. 24
Pynnyng.
Collinson's Somerset, under West-Cranmore, extends this ancestry of Thomas of
Shepton Mallet:
1. Warine de la Strode, of Strode, Dorset, who as supposed to come with the
Conqueror out of Bretange, was father of
2. Sir William Strode, of Strode.
3. Hugh de Strode, liv. 8 Hen. I.
4. Sir John Strode, of Strode.
5. Sir Hugh de Strode.
6. Henry de Strode, m. Maud Fichett Beapre.
7. Hugh Strode m. Beatrice, d. and coh. of Sir John de Button, by Hawise d. and
coh. of Sir Matthew de Furneaux.
8. Henry de Strode m. Elizabeth Brent, d. and h. of John Brent.
9. Richard Strode, m. (1) Margaret, d. and h. of John Gerard, esquire.
10. William de Strode m. Alice, d. and h. of Roger de Ledred, of Somerton,
Somerset. [There was a William Strode, the elder, esquire, of Somerton,
Somerset, who left a will PCC 1500, 6 Moone, and Alice Strowde, of Somerton,
who left a will in 1514, PCC 30 Holder, but I haven't checked these wills.]
11. John Strode, 2nd son, of Shepton Mallet, Somerset, m. Joan Okle, d. of
John.
12. Walter Strode, of Shepton Mallet.
13. Thomas Strode, the father of John and Edward (above).
The arms of this family were Ermine, on a canton sable, a crescent, argent.
Importantly, the SAME arms are given to Strode of Stoke-under-Hambden,
Somerset, in Burke's Armory ["impalement Fun. Ent. Ulster's Office, 1622,
Henry, Lord Folliott, whose wife was Anne, dau. of Sir William Strode, Knt., of
Stoke."].
This would seem to correspond to the Funeral Entry of Sir Henry Folliott, Lord
Ballyshannon, bur. 1622, MS 64-79, Funeral ENtries, Voo. 5, 17 (FHL film
#100,161), which I haven't checked.
CP merely says of Henry's wife, "He m., before 1613, Anne, da. of Sir William
Strode, of Stoke-under-Hampden, Somerset. He d. 10 Nov. 1622, aged about 53.
His widow m., before 1627, Robert (Dillon), 2nd Earl of Roscommon [I.], who d.
27 Aug. 1642. Her will was pr. 1652 in the Prerog. Ct. [I.]."
Given that Henry Folliott was b. about 1571, and his heir by Anne was b. 1613,
she may have been born about 1570-90 (probably closer to the latter date),
making her father "Sir WIlliam Strode" of Thomas's generation, though Thomas
had a daughter Ann bp. at Stoke sub Hamdon 28 May 1582.
If Sir William Strode here was the man of Shepton-Malet who died in 1592, son
of Edward Strode by Alice Whiting, one wonders shy Stoke sub Hamdon is given in
CP instead of Shepton Mallet. However, Collinson does not indicate that
William Strode had a daughter named Anne, though sons and two other daughters
are listed. There is an account of this Shepton Strode family in Somerset
Archaeological Society, v. 30, but it only has charts from Edward and john
down, not prior to their generation, if my memory is correct.
Collinson indicates there is a later Strode MI at Stoke, but did not give the
arms.
Paul
Robert O'Connor
Hamdon. I was aware of a number of Strode families in the Dorset (Parnham)
and Somerset (Shepton Mallet) localities. Perhaps as the PCC wills for the
16th century become available online at the PRO website I will be able to
learn more (they are presently working on the period 1610-1650 having
substantially completed the period 1650-1858).
I note your comment:
>It is also interesting
> that this Thomas's daughter Elizabeth married Richard Pheilps, esquire, of
> Corfe, Mullen, Dorset.
Do you have more information on the Phelips family? Actually, it is from
the marriage of Elizabeth Strode to Richard Phelips that my connection to
this family is traced.
Many thanks
Robert
Mike Gallafent
<reed...@aol.com> writes
>I don't have specific evidence of the parentage of Thomas Strode, esquire, of
>Stoke-sub-Hamdon, Somerset (d. 1595), possibly born about 1540, but you are
>probably aware of the likely association with the Strode family of Dorset,
>which had a branch bearing the name Thomas in Somerset. It is also interesting
>that this Thomas's daughter Elizabeth married Richard Pheilps, esquire, of
>Corfe, Mullen, Dorset.
Thomas STRODE is named as Yeoman Purveyor of the Poultry in the royal
household of Henry VII. He is named in the list as entitled to black
mourning cloth for the funeral of Henry in 1509. He is also named in the
household (with same position) of Henry VIII, being on the list for red
and scarlet cloth for the coronation of Henry & Katherine later that
same year.
'Letters & Papers, Foreign & Domestic of Henry VIII', catalogued &
edited by Brewer & Brodie, Vol. 1, Part 1, HMSO, London 1920.
There are also the published wills of the STRODE family:
William Strode Esq of Somerton, 'Somerset Medieval Wills 1383-1500' by
Rev. F.W. Weaver, Somerset Rec. Soc. (SRS), Vol. 16, 1901.
Alice Stroude of Somerton, 'Somerset Medieval Wills 1501-1530', Weaver,
SRS, 1903.
Edw. Stroude Esq. of Shepton Mallet & Thomas Stroude Esq. of Butleigh,
'Somerset Medieval Wills 1531-1558', Weaver, SRS, 1905.
Mike.
--
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Reedpcgen
>the marriage of Elizabeth Strode to Richard Phelips that my connection to
>this family is traced.
>
I haven't done specific research on this Phillips family, but would assume you
were already aware that the 1623 Visitation of Dorset [HS 20:76] shows that
Richard Phillips of Corfe Mollynn, Dorset, who married Elizabeth, daughter of
Thomas Strode of Stoke vnder Hamden 'in com. Dorset"
was son of John Phillipps of Mountague, Somerset, by the daughter of Sir Thomas
Speake, and sister of Sir George Speak. John was brother of Thomas Phillipps
(father of Sir Thomas, Baronet), and brother of Sir Edward Phillipps, Master of
the Rolls (father of Sir Robert Phillips, liv. 1623).
John, Thomas and Sir Edward are given as sons of Thomas Phillipps of Mountague,
Somerset, by a daughter of "Smith in com. Som'set".
The arms are given as Argent, a chevron between three roses gules. The crest
is, A square beacon on wheels or, fired proper.
Burke's Extinct Baronetage reports that Collins said that Thomas was son of
Richard Phillips, of Dorset, and that Thomas Phylyps was probably the man of
that name who was chief builder and supervisor of the buildings in the town and
marches of Calais (31 Hen. VIII).
It also says that Sir Edward Phelips was elected serjeant-at-law 45 Eliz. I,
was speaker of the first Parliament of James I, that his son Sir Robert was
also MP, and that his son Edward (b. 1613) was MP in the Long Parliament,
represented at time of publication by Charles Phelips, esq., of Briggins Park,
Hants. (Burke's Commoners 3).
I don't see that these arms correspond with any other Phelips/Phillipps family,
so are probably original.
The index to early PCC wills (-1558) shows that there had been a will for
Thomas Philippe of Montacute, Somerset in 1500, "fo. 22 regr. F. at Canterbury"
There was also a will for Robert Philippe of Lyme Regis, Dorset, 1507 (33
Adeane) and Agnes Fylipsse of Lyme Regis in 1518 (16 Ayloffe).
HOP says that John Phelips of Montacute was born by 1533 and living 1558,
having served as MP for Wymouth and Poole, apparently on account of his
"kinsman" Richard Phelips, MP for Dorset. He may have been a servant of the
Marquess of Exeter.
HOP also says that Richard Phelips, MP Dorset 1512, etc., may have been son of
Thomas Phelips of Montacute by his wife Joan, that the elder Thomas was
escheator for the county 1471-9, and died leaving a will in 1501. Richard was
yeoman of the chamber 1509, etc. "In 1527 his cousin John Witcombe of
Somerset named him executor, provided he discharged himself from the troubles
which he then had ‘against the King’"
HOP says that Edward Phelips, b. ca. 1566, d. 1614, was 4th son of Thomas
Phelips, MP, by Elizabeth, daughter of Mathew Smith of Bristol. Thomas was a
lawyer and became Speaker of the Commons (see DNB).
HOP says Thomas Phelips, MP, of Stock Dennis, by Montacute, was born by 1514
and died 1590, 1st son of Richard Phelips MP of Poole (above) by his wife
Emily.
You may already know all this.
Paul
Reedpcgen
Record Society and Collins' History of Somerset.
In vol. 3, pp. 314-15, he states that the "family of Phelips migrated into this
county from Wales, where they were long, anciently estabished, about the time
of Edw. I. and were many years resident at Barringtonn, a few miles distanct
from Montacute. A branch of the family settled at Corf-Mullen, in Dorset,
having received a grant of that manor from Henry VIII."
"The church is dedicated to St. Catherine.... In the north aile [sic] lie the
effigies in stone of David Phelips, esq.; and Anne his wife, who died in 1484;
of Thomas Phelips, es; in armour, who died 1588; E;oza Phelips, 1598; and of
Bridget Phelips 1508 [sic]."
He ends his account of Montacute with, "By Hamden-Hill a Roman vicinal way
conducts us hence to the parish of Stoke-under-Hamden" and then proceeds to
begin the account of Stoke-under-Hamden.
In vol. 2, 292, under Long Ashton, he discusses the family of Smyth:
"The family of Smyth was for many generations seated at Aylburton, near Lidney,
in the county of Gloucester. John SMyth was living there the beginning of the
reign of Henry VI. and was father of RObert Smyth of the same place, who had a
son named John, living also at Aylburton the latter end of the same reign, viz.
27 Heny VI. 1449."
"Which John was father of Matthew Smyth, who married Alice daughter of Charles
Havard of Herefordshire, esq; and died in 1526, leaving issue on eson John, the
purchaser of Long-Ashton, and a daughter married to Thomas Phelips, of
Montacute in this county, esq."
John Smyth, son of Matthew, was sheriff and mayor of Bristol, married Joan
Parr, and had a son Hugh b. 1530, d. 1580.
_In the Certificate of Musters in the County of Somerset. Temp. Eliz. A.D.
1569._ [Som. Rec. Soc. 20], Hundred of Tyntenhull, "Burgh of Montague" [p. 224]
among those who provided armor was listed "Thomas Philippes, esquire, ij
corslets, iij pair of almain rivets furnished, one gelding for a light horseman
furnished." Three pages later [p. 227] in the account of the "Tithing of Stoke
subtus Hamdon" we have, under armor, "Thomas Stroude, gent., a gelding
furnished."
In glancing at published abstracts of wills,
William Strode, 1499 (6 Moone) of Somerton, Somerset, mentions church of
Beaminster, Dorset, wife Alice, and son Richard, with William, Thomas and John
Strode also present.
1510 Alice Stroud, mentions her son John, also reads "John my elder son", he
son Thomas, daughter Alice, also Alice daughter of Thomas Troude, and Thomas
"my elder son." I have not checked the original to see if the original wording
might indicate more than one son named John or Thomas.
1555 Edward Stroude, mentions wife Alice, brother John, children Agnes, Thomas,
Richard, Anne, Jone, Edward and William, who were to have 20 l. at marriage,
and son John.
The Havard ancestry might prove very interesting. In The Genealogist, NS 14 is
presented a connection:
1. Owen Gethin
2. Griffith ap Owen Gethin, m. d. & h. of David Vychan
3. Thomas Griffith m. Jane, d. of Sir ROger Vaughan of Bredwardine
4. Jane married Jenkin Havard and had issue; and another daughter m. Thomas
Havard of Llandew.
Guillim Thomas, son of Thomas, was father of Howell, father of John, father of
Watkin, which Watkin was supposed to be aged 80 in 1584. Watkin's sister Agnes
m. William Havard of Aberbrane.
Paul
Robert O'Connor
was aware of the Phelips entry in the 1623 Visitation of Dorset, in fact
that was my source for the connection to the Strode family.
What I have been able to glean on the Phelips family of Montacute & later of
Corfe Mullen is shown below:
THOMAS PHELIPS, of Montacute, Somerset, England., M Joan. A commission was
granted to Sir William Bonville & others to arrest "Thomas Phelip of Lufton,
Somerset, Yeoman" & to bring him before the King in Chancery, Sept. 1460.
Recorded as "Thomas Phelips late of the parish of Cooling, Co. Kent, alias
of Lufton, Co. Somerset, gentleman" he was granted a pardon in Feb. 1466 for
all offences committed by him before 27 Nov. 1465. Escheator for Dorset &
Somerset, 1471 & 1478. He was recorded as owning land at Montacute, 1479.
M Jane. Died before 7 Oct. 1501. He had issue:
Refs: HoP 1509-58, III, p 103. SDNQ, XXXI, p 2
RICHARD PHELIPS, M.P., J.P., of Montacute, Somerset, Poole & Charborough,
Co. Dorset, Southwark, Co. Surrey & London., Born by 1488. He began his
career as a member of the Household of King Henry VII, & was present at the
King's funeral, & at the coronation of his successor King Henry VIII.
Yeoman of the Chamber, by 1509. Collector of Customs for the Port of Poole,
1511 until 1514 & 1520 until 1527. M.P for Poole, 1512 & 1515. Butler of
Lyme Regis & Weymouth, Co. Dorset, 1520 until 1521. Escheator of Somerset &
Dorset, 1520 until 1521. Commissioner of Subsidy for Dorset, 1523, 1524 &
1533. J.P. for Dorset, 1523 until 1558. M.P. for Melcombe Regis, 1529.
Under Steward of the Manor of Great Canford, Co. Dorset, by 1531. He was
seized of a lease of the Manor of Charborough, by 1531. J.P. for Somerset,
1536 until 1547. Under-Sheriff of Dorset, 1531. Purchased the Manors of
Corfe Mullen & Corfe Hubart, Co. Dorset, c. 1539. Commissioner for
Benevolence, 1544/45. Commissioner for Relief, 1550. M.P. for Wareham or
Weymouth, March 1553. M.P. for Dorset, Nov. 1554. M by 1514 Emily. M 2nd
Emma, widow of John Spring (d 1533). Will dated 24 Jan. 1557/8. Died 1558.
Will Proved at P.C.C., 26 Nov. 1560. He had issue:
Refs: HoP 1509-58, III, pp 103-5. Burke's LG 1972, p 712. Will PCC
THOMAS PHELIPS, M.P., of Sock Dennis by Montacute, Somerset., Born by 1514.
M by 1535 Elizabeth (Died 1598), d. of Matthew Smyth, of Bristol, Co. Glouc.
& his wife Alice, d. of Lewis John, of Bristol (See SMYTH). In March 1533
Thomas Arundell, M.P. asked Cromwell to continue his goodness to 'young
Phelips', for whom his father was probably seeking a place at court. This
attempt to advance his career was jeopardised several months later when he
was accused of instigating a prison break at Ilchester. In the following
year, when Phelips had thrown himself on the King's mercy in the matter,
Arundell wrote again to Cromwell evidently with success, as not long
afterwards Richard Phelips was to ask the minister to take Thomas into his
service. Thomas Phelips did not enter Cromwell's household but instead found
employment with several of the more important families in the south-west.
Member of the Household of Queen Catherine Parr, 1543. M.P. for Wareham,
1545, Oct. 1553 & 1555. M.P. for Melcombe Regis, 1547 & Nov. 1554. M.P.
for Poole, 1558. Thomas joined the opposition to a government measure in
1555, & may have done so again in 1558. His father died shortly before the
accession of Queen Elizabeth I, & with his death Thomas lost his
parliamentary patron and maybe the urge to sit in the Commons. He did not
cut much of a figure in the remaining 30 years of his life. Will dated 25
Sept. 1588 - as his 3 elder sons had proved unsatisfactory, it was his
youngest son Edward whom he made his executor and to whom he left his house
at Montacute, instructing him to pay £650 for it to his eldest brother John.
Died 28 May 1590. Bur. St. Catherine's Church, Montacute. M.I. (tomb).
Will Proved at P.C.C., 1590. I.P.M., 1591. He had issue:
Refs: HoP 1509-58, III, pp 105-6. HSP Dorset 1623, p 76. Burke's LG 1972,
p 712. Will PCC. IPM
JOHN PHELIPS, of Corfe Mullen, Co. Dorset., Born c. 1545. M Elizabeth, d.
of Sir Thomas Speke, Kt., M.P., J.P., of White Lackington, Somerset & his
2nd wife Elizabeth (See SPEKE). He was disinherited by his father; who
settled the Manor of Montacute on his youngest brother Edward, 1587.
Mentioned in his father's will under which he received a bequest of £650
expressly in lieu of his rightful inheritance of Monacute House, 25 Sept.
1588. Recorded as "John Phelips of Corfe Mullen" he entered into a Deed of
Defeasance with his brother "Edward Phelips of the Middle Temple", 1588.
Died after 1588. He had issue:
Refs: HSP Dorset 1623, p 76. Somerset Deeds DD/PH/228/10 & DD/PH/14
RICHARD PHELIPS, of Corfe Mullen, Co. Dorset., Born c. 1570. M c. 1590
Elizabeth (Bapt. 14 June 1575 at Stoke sub Hamdon, Somerset. Recorded as
"Elizabeth late wife of Richard Phelips of Corfe Mullen deceased" she
received a grant of an annuity from her husband's uncle Sir Edward Phelips
out of the Manor of Montacute, 1612. An Exemplification of a decree in
Chancery was issued involving her husband's 1st cousin Sir Robert Phelips
against her, she recorded as "Elizabeth Phelips widow of Richard Phelips of
Corfe Mullen, nephew of Sir Edward Phelips", & her sons Thomas, Edward &
Richard, relating to claims on an annuity granted by Sir Edward Phelips,
1630-3), d. of Thomas Strode, Esq., of Stoke sub Hamdon, Co. Somerset & his
wife Theophilia (See STRODE). By Deed of Settlement, in which he was
recorded as "Richard, second son of John Phelips of Corfe Mullen", his
paternal uncle Edward Phelips settled the advowson & Manor of Thorne Coffin,
Somerset, as security for the payment to him of an annuity, 1589. Recorded
as "Richard Phelips of Corfe Mullen" he leased by deed a house in the Manor
of Muchelney to his 1st cousin Sir Robert Phelips, 1607. Died before 1612.
He had issue:
Refs: HSP Dorset 1623, p 76. Somerset Deeds DD/PH/29 & DD/PH/30, DD/PH/124
& DD/PH/231
Thomas Phelips, of Corfe Mullen, Co. Dorset., Born c. 1595. M before 1623
Dorothy, d. of Thomas Hussey, Esq., of Shapwick & Winterbourne Tomson,
Dorset, & his wife Mary, d. of Thomas Basket, Esq., of Denelishe, Dorset.
He recorded the pedigree of the Phelips family of Corfe Mullen at the
Visitation of Dorset by the Heralds of the College of Arms, 1623. He was
recorded as "son of Elizabeth late wife of Richard Phelips of Corfe Mullen
deceased" in an Exemplification of a decree in Chancery involving his father
's 1st cousin Sir Robert Phelips against his mother, himself & his brothers
Edward & Richard relating to claims on an annuity granted by his great uncle
Sir Edward Phelips, 1630-3. Mentioned in the will of his nephew Henry
Gillingham as "my well beloved uncle Mr Thomas Phelips" under which he was
appointed an overseer, 16 Nov. 1662. Will dated 10 Oct. 1662. Died 1663.
Will Proved at P.C.C., 2 Nov. 1663.
Refs: HSP Dorset 1623, pp 76 & 608. Somerset Deed DD/PH/124. Nephew's
will. Will PCC
Rosie Bevan
> <snip>
> Do you have more information on the Phelips family? Actually, it is from
> the marriage of Elizabeth Strode to Richard Phelips that my connection to
> this family is traced.
>
I don't know how reliable this is, but the official National Trust
booklet "Montacute House" by Malcolm Rogers (1998) gives the following
pedigree for the Phelips family.
1.Thomas Phelips d.1501
+ Jane, widow of Abbott of Pendomer
2.Richard Phelips of Charborough c. 1480-1558
+(1)Emeline
3.Thomas Phelips of Montacute c.1500-1589
+ Elizabeth Smythe of Bristol
4. Sir Edward Phelips (builder of Montacute
House)c.1560-1614
+(1)Margaret Newdigate d.1590
5.Sir Robert Phelips 1586-1638
+ Bridget Gorges
+(2)Elizabeth Pigott d.1638
3.Bartram
3.Henry
3.Edith
+ John Stocker of Poole
+ Sir John Horsey of Clifton Maybank
+(2)Emme, widow of John Spynge
The pedigree continues on but it looks from your description that your
Richard Phelips was son of Thomas Phelips d.1589. I would imagine the
dates of birth for
Richard d.1558 and Thomas d.1589 would be 15-20 years later than
given.
Cheers
Rosie
Robert O'Connor
"Reedpcgen" <reed...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030610214119...@mb-m25.aol.com...
> I took a few moments and just glanced at the wills published by the
Somerset
> Record Society and Collins' History of Somerset.
>
> In vol. 3, pp. 314-15, he states that the "family of Phelips migrated into
this
> county from Wales, where they were long, anciently estabished, about the
time
> of Edw. I. and were many years resident at Barringtonn, a few miles
distanct
> from Montacute. A branch of the family settled at Corf-Mullen, in Dorset,
> having received a grant of that manor from Henry VIII."
According to an article which appeared in Somerset & Dorset Notes & Queries,
Vol XXXI, p 2 he was recorded as “Thomas Phelips late of the parish of
Cooling, Co. Kent, alias of Lufton, Co. Somerset, gentleman” & was granted a
pardon in Feb. 1466 for all offences committed by him before 27 Nov. 1465.
It would therefore appear that the origins of the Phelips family of
Montacute & Corfe Mullen are to be found in Kent rather than in Wales.
Robert O'Connor
Robert O'Connor
"Rosie Bevan" <rbe...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:accbf2a2.03061...@posting.google.com...
> "> >
> Dear Robert
>
> I don't know how reliable this is, but the official National Trust
> booklet "Montacute House" by Malcolm Rogers (1998) gives the following
> pedigree for the Phelips family.
>
> 1.Thomas Phelips d.1501
> + Jane, widow of Abbott of Pendomer
> 2.Richard Phelips of Charborough c. 1480-1558
> +(1)Emeline
> 3.Thomas Phelips of Montacute c.1500-1589
> + Elizabeth Smythe of Bristol
> 4. Sir Edward Phelips (builder of Montacute
> House)c.1560-1614
> +(1)Margaret Newdigate d.1590
> 5.Sir Robert Phelips 1586-1638
> + Bridget Gorges
> +(2)Elizabeth Pigott d.1638
> 3.Bartram
> 3.Henry
> 3.Edith
> + John Stocker of Poole
> + Sir John Horsey of Clifton Maybank
> +(2)Emme, widow of John Spynge
>
> The pedigree continues on but it looks from your description that your
> Richard Phelips was son of Thomas Phelips d.1589.
Actually, Richard was the grandson of Thomas (actually d 1590 according to
his biography in the History of Parliament series, not 1589) and the son of
Thomas' disinherited eldest son John.
I would imagine the
> dates of birth for
> Richard d.1558 and Thomas d.1589 would be 15-20 years later than
> given.
>
> Cheers
>
> Rosie
Thanks for posting Rosie
Robert
Reedpcgen
this same time, 5 Edw. IV.
In a fine concerning land in "Eston in Gordano" "Thomas Philips senior and
Alice his wife, John Philips, Thomas Philips junior, and Robert Philips son of
the said Thomas Philips senior and Alice" were deforciants, the land to be
granted to John Philips and his heirs male, in default to Thomas Philips junior
and his male heirs, in default to Robert Philips and his male heirs, in default
to Thomas Philips senior and his heirs, in default to John Stacy and his heirs,
in default "to remain to John Phlips son of Richard Philips and the heirs of
his body...." Som. Rec. Soc. 22:131, no. 17.
I wonder about that David Phelips and wif who were supposed to have died in
1488.
Where you already aware of the Smyth and Havard ancestry?
Paul
Robert O'Connor
>
> Paul
No. This is entirely new to me.
Robert
David R. Teague
I don't know how reliable this is, but the book IN SEARCH OF THE STRODE
ORPHANS, p. 26, makes "your" Thomas a son of Edward Strode (d. 3 Mar.
1555, Shepton Mallet, Somerset) and Alice Whiting Strode (d. 1593). The
book also refers to Thomas as "of Batcombe;" gives his date and place of
death as "7 June 1625, Batcombe, Somerset;" names his wife as Eleanor
Blanchard; and gives the following in a footnote:
"The children of this marriage were: John Strode, who married Gertrude
Hippisley and his will was probated on 30 Nov. 1635 at Stoke Lane,
Somerset; James Strode of Shepton Mallet, who married Anne Pitt and his
will was probated at Shepton Mallet, Somerset on 22 Jul.1618; and Joyce
Strode, who married William Bisse of Croscomb (his will was probated on
23 Aug. 1625).
The authors, in contrast to their usual habit, give no source for these
assertions -- although it must be remarked in their defense that this
lineage is to them a side trip, their main focus being on the line of
Thomas' younger brother William, who m. Elizabeth Upton. From him, the
authors give the following descendancy (I omit everything but the direct
line in the interest of brevity):
William Strode, m. Elizabeth Upton; 5 children, incl.
William Strode (1589-1666), m. Joan Barnard. 13 children, incl.
Edward Strode of Downside (1629-1703), m. Joan Gunning. 10 children,
incl.
Edward Strode (b. abt. 1669; d. bef/ Sept. 1697, when his father's will
was written); m. (possibly) Susannah Hachett.
This last Edward, they suggest, d. either at sea (acc. to a family
tradition) or not long after removing to Philadelphia, where the estate
of an Edward Strode was administered in 1699 by George Strode, styled as
"chief creditor and nearest of kin" to the deceased. The authors name
four children for this Edward:
Edward;
Jeremiah;
Samuel -- who d. in Loudon Co., Va., in 1765 and whose 2nd wife and
children were Quakers (my own line, incidentally); and
Martha, who m. Morgan Bryan; one of their granddaughters, Rebecca Bryan,
m. Daniel Boone.
David Teague
________________________________________________________________
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Robert O'Connor
""David R. Teague"" <davt...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:20030611.080346.-1...@juno.com...
> Dear Robert (et al.),
>
> I don't know how reliable this is, but the book IN SEARCH OF THE STRODE
> ORPHANS, p. 26, makes "your" Thomas a son of Edward Strode (d. 3 Mar.
> 1555, Shepton Mallet, Somerset) and Alice Whiting Strode (d. 1593). The
> book also refers to Thomas as "of Batcombe;" gives his date and place of
> death as "7 June 1625, Batcombe, Somerset;" names his wife as Eleanor
> Blanchard; and gives the following in a footnote:
Thank you for posting this, but I am at a loss to understand the assertion
that Thomas Strode of Stoke sub Hamdon was the same person as the Thomas to
whom you have referred as being the son of Edward (d 1555) of Shepton Mallet
and as dying in 1625. First, Thomas of Stoke sub Hamdon is recorded as
having been buried at Stoke sub Hamdon on 25 April 1595. Second, his wife
is recorded in the Stoke sub Hamdon parish register at the baptism of his
eldest child as "Theophilia".
I am therefore left wondering how the author of the book to which you have
referred can possibly have confused these two Thomas's?
>
> "The children of this marriage were: John Strode, who married Gertrude
> Hippisley and his will was probated on 30 Nov. 1635 at Stoke Lane,
> Somerset;
This is confusing also as at the Visitation of Somerset in 1623 the husband
of Gertrude Hippersley is recorded as "John Strode of Stoke" - presumably
the son of Thomas Strode of Stoke sub Hamdon baptised there on 11 July 1568?
David R. Teague
On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:34:18 +1200 "Robert O'Connor" <roco...@es.co.nz>
writes:
> ""David R. Teague"" <davt...@juno.com> wrote in message
<snip>
Thank you for posting this, but I am at a loss to understand the
assertion that Thomas Strode of Stoke sub Hamdon was the same person as
the Thomas to whom you have referred as being the son of Edward (d 1555)
of Shepton Mallet and as dying in 1625. First, Thomas of Stoke sub
Hamdon is recorded as having been buried at Stoke sub Hamdon on 25 April
1595. Second, his wifeis recorded in the Stoke sub Hamdon parish
register at the baptism of his
eldest child as "Theophilia".
I am therefore left wondering how the author of the book to which you
have referred can possibly have confused these two Thomas's?
<snip>
Robert,
The only thing I can think of is that, as I said earlier, your Thomas is
a very brief excursus for the authors, whose main focus is on arguing one
particular hypothesis about which of the Strodes came to America and was
the ancestor of a family with such numerous descendants. I would,
therefore, suggest that -- at this one point at least -- they fell into
the old "the name's the same" trap, although they did have either the
good sense or good luck to find a second Thomas Strode who came from the
same area of England as the correct one.
In their defense, the authors do usually make reference to wills, the
Calendars of Patent Rolls, period letters, and parish -- later, Quaker
meeting -- records, and they are careful to distinguish between Sir
William Strode of Devonshire, one of the five MPs whom Charles I went
into Parliament in January 1642 in order to arrest, and Col. William
Strode of Barrington Court, Shepton Mallet, Somerset, the cousin and
contemporary of the other man. (The two William Strodes have always
tended to be confused with each other, even during their lifetimes.)
Anyway, I hope at least some of this helps.
David
Reedpcgen
of which were listed in Marshall or Whitmore's _Guide_ (the thought hadn't
occurred to me before that they might have missed these two important journal
series):
(1) "The Smyths of Ashton Court," by Lewis Upton Way, _Transactions of the
Bristol and Gloucester Archaeological Society, v. 31 (1908), and
(2) _The Ledger of John Smythe, 1538-1550_ (Bristol Record Society, 1975, v.
28).
The 1908 account only briefly covered the early ancestry before John Smyth, the
Mayor of Bristol, and basically repeats what appeared in Collinson's _History
of Somerset_ 2:292, though the later generations are much more thorough
covered.
The Smyth family resided at Aylburton/Ailburton, in the Forest of Dean, but the
ancestry is only known for three generations prior to Matthew:
(1) John Smythe, liv. 1422.
(2) Robert Smythe, by deed dated 1440 gave all his lands and tenements in
Ailburton to his son John.
(3) John Smythe, mentioned with his father in 1440.
(4) Matthew Smythe, will PCC dated 11 Aug. 1526, of Bristol, merchant, to be
buried in the church of the White Friars, Bristol, gave his son John all his
lands in the forest of Dean with God's blessing 'and mine.' The residue was
left to his wife Alice.
(5a) Elizabeth Smythe, m. Thomas Phelips
(5b) John Smythe, Mayor of Bristol, m. Joan
The ledger book provides invaluable evidence for the connection to the Phelips
family (given the apparent loss of the records which verify the three earliest
generations; "Family tradition, based on records which have now [1975]
disappeared..."). There was a muniment room at Ashton Court, but it appears
the documents have now been placed in the Bristol Archives Office.
Matthew Smythe married Alice - apparently not daughter of a Charles Havard,
Esquire, of Hereford, as reported by Collinson, and L. U. Way, _Family Album_,
B.A.O. AC/F14. She was daughter of Lewis John, a Bristol merchant of the late
1400s. They lived on Corn Street in St. Leonard's in a house Alice had
inherited according to the terms of the will of Lewis Mors in 1520.
The will of Lodowic Mors [Morse in the margin] is no. 241 in _Notes or
Abstracts ... The Great Orphan Book and Book of Wills_ (1886), pp. 138-9, dated
7 Feb. 1464, to be buried "in Porticu Eccl'ie" of the Blessed Mary of Redclyff,
Bristol. To wife Joan for life his dwelling house in Oldecornstreet. [sons
Thomas, John and Walter all under age 22] in default of their issue to remain
to Lodowic John, merchant, of Bristol, and his heirs. If the said Lodowic
wishes to inhabit the house, he is to pay Joan 40 s. for life. [snip] two
pipes to John Lewys, brother of the said Ludowic John, two to Joan and Agnes,
daughters of the testator's sister..., and one to Alice, sister of wife Joan.
Proved before the Mayor, etc., Weds. next after feast of the lord's epiphany, 5
Edw. IV, proved previously to the ecclesiastical authorities. The house is
also mentioned in Corn Street deeds (B.A.O. Bundle of Corn Street Deeds.
AC/box 8, XII).
Matthew Smythe and his brother Thomas were both hoopers, but also engaged in
trade, exporting wine and cloth to Ireland, importing fish, etc. He was listed
among the lesser merchants and tradesmen of Bristol in the 1524 and 1525
subsidies (which theoretically record practically everyone who made a living
wage), being assessed for 16 l. in 1526. After his death his widow was
assessed for only 4 l. Alice, his widow, wove cloth, imported wine and oil on
her own, and was enterprising to a great degree. She was eventually assessed
for 10 l.
Though the will of Matthew Smythe was registered in the PCC, the original
survives at Bristol (B.A.O. AC/F7/1).
Matthew's son and heir John Smythe prospered more than almost any other Bristol
merchant of that period. He was granted arms on 9 May 1544. In the subsidy of
1545-8, he resided in St. Leonard's at Corn Street, paying on 100 marks in
lands and 100 l. in goods. He and Nicholas Thorne head the list in the
Benevolence of 1545, with 15 l. each. No one else in Bristol gave above 5 l.
He reckoned his trading profit at 1,427 for 1539-43, and the value of his goods
at Small Street inventories in 1556 totaled 1,641 l. I think he paid 1,000 l.
for Long Ashton.
The ledger book, p. 38, reads [abbreviations extended]:
"Thomas Phelips of montagew my brother in the lawe owith the [blank] day of
October anno dicto 33s 4d to be pd. at all tymes whiche is for so myche he
restithe owynge to me for John Nappar of Martock. ... 1539 itm. the 21 day of
Agost 1539 10 l. which I lent hym in redy monney & sent hit hym by his sarvant
John Tayllor...."
The ledger book on p. 59 of the published version verifies that Thomas Phelips
was son of Richard:
"Master Richard Phelips of Dorsettshire esquyer owith the 11 day of October
1536 32s 1d which is for 55 yerdes frize d'd for hym to John Taylor sarvant to
his son T. Phelips."
p. 273, anno 1546, "Memorandum that my mother Alice Smythe wedo departyd owt of
this worlde to Godward the 16 day of Aprell 1546 abowt 5 of the clock at
afternoone & was buryed the next day betwen 10 & 11 of the clock before none in
the crowde of the parisch churche of Seynt Leonardes in Bristowe."
Her also accounted her inventory, which included 173 l. in ready money, much
"gyllt" and silver, 14 l. in cloth, 100 l. in debts owing her, etc. He then
listed all the bequests made in her will which he was to dispose of, and to
whom they were to go.
I am inclined to thing the reference to Charles Havard is invention, as no
Charles was listed in Bartrum, and as no Parr could be documented by the editor
of the ledger book for the next generation either.
Paul
Rita Gerrard
I got a bit sidetracked down the Shepton Mallett trail, but a more careful
perusal of the Pedigree and Notes of Strode of Parnham on page 130/1 in
Hutchin's History of Dorset, vol 2 - later editions [my original 2 volume
set, dated 1773 is a bit blurry on that page] shows quite clearly your
Thomas STRODE and his wife Theophilia, sister of Sir John Clifton of Stoke
under Hamden.
I quote
"Pedigree of Strode of Parnham
the Genealogy of the ancient and knightly family of the Strodes, co. Dorset,
drawn and collected by Sir John Strode of Parnham and Chantmarle from
ancient pedigrees,evidences and records in his possesssion,1636,aet.75and
continued by his successors.
Arms: Erm.on a canton sa.a crescent arg.
[A]Warinus De La Strode, knt.=
[B]William de la Strode,knt.of Strode=
[C]John de Strode,knt=
[D]Hugh de Strode, esq.=
[E](2?).John de Strode, knt.=
siblings
[F]1.Robert.
[G](3?)Hugh de Strode,knt.=
siblings
1.Peter,ob.s.p
2.John.
[H]Robert de Strode,knt=
[I]John de Strode,knt=
[K]Nicholas de Strode,esq=
siblings
[L]2.John.
[M]Hugh de Strode,knt=Beatrix,dau.and heir of John de BITTON,knt. by Hawisia
his wife, dau. and coheir of
Mat. FURNEAUX, co. Somerset.
[N[Hugh de Strode, knt., of Chalmington=Beatrice, daughter
of.............FITCHET.
[O]Henry de Strode,esq.=Malda, Maud or Matilda,daughter and heir of .....de
BAUPREA.
[P]Hugh de Strode,esq.=Beatrice.......
siblings
[Q]2.Edmund .
Jane
[R]1.Henry de Strode,esq.=Elizabeth, dau.and heir
of John
and Joan BRENT siblings
2.Edmund
[S]Richard de Strode,esq. of Parnham=1.Elisabeth ##dau. and heir** of John
JERRARD
2.Margaret, relict of Walter CHANTMARLE,ob.s.p.
[T]1.William de Strode,esq.=Alice dau. and heir of Roger LEDRED,esq.siblings
2.Edmund
[U]2.William de Strode,esq.=Alianor, dau. of
John
CHEYNE of Pinho,
co
Devon. siblings
1.Richard,ob.s.p.
2.John=dau.of John OKELE-
(Shepton Mallett ancestor)
[W]John de Strode of Parnham,esq=1.Christian,dau.of John POXWELL,esq. of
Strode,in Netherbury
=2.Elizabeth,dau.of Richard POLSHOT(5/3?ISSUE)
[X]1.Robert de Strode of ditto,esq.=Elizabeth,dau.of Reginald, son of
William HODY,
Lord Chief Baron of the Exchequer,t.H.VII.
siblings
2.Giles,ob.s.p.
Dorothy=......HEMERFORD
[Y]1.John de Strode,esq.,born1559,ob.s.p.m.=1.Katherine,dau.of Gregory Lord
CROMWELL issue......cont...
=2.Mary,dau.and heir of Christian HADLEY,relict of
Thomas LUTTEREL of Dunstar Castle.issue.....cont.
siblings
2.Thomas=Theophili, sister of
Sir John CLIFTON of Stoke under
Hamden.
|
issue:
1.John
Thomas
1.Dorothy=Sir John FOLIOT
2.Elizabeth=John PHILPOT of Corfe."
PS:I found a mention on the web of a Henry FOLLIOTT (of/in Ireland)m=Anne
dau of Sir William Stroude of Stoke Under Hamden, Somt. circa 1594. I
wonder who this is?
(..) INDICATES MY NOTES
Note1##In many online STRODE pedigrees give her name (incorrectly-I think)
as Margaret
Note2**Elizabeth also had a half brother, John Gerard by her father John's
2nd wife-Ref: NOTES TO PEDIGREE OF STRODE [T]. (?Isabella de la LYNDE
=1422, John JERRARD of Sandford Orcas - born circa 1331 married 2ndly
approx 15 years after Elisabeth's marriage to Richard Strode, so I
surmise,that as the choicest portions of her fathers estate were given at
her marriage she was deemed to be his heir, as of course she was at the
time).
I have the notes if you want further info and also have now acquired quite a
bit on the Shepton Mallet line.
Also, "The STRODES of Newnham, Devon, who intermarried with those of
Parnham, were a different family, and bore different arms. see Princes's
Worthies of Devon,p.564" Ref:Hutchins Dorset.
Sincerely
Rita A GERRARD
> ______________________________
Reedpcgen
verified by probate records:
Will of John Strode of Perham, Dorset, esquire, w.d. 1 Sep. 1581 33 Darcy 1581
(FHL film #91,961),
to be buried in the church of Beaminster, to my sonne John my Lease of Winsor
parke, unto my sonne Thomas my lease and tearme which remayneth in Oltsam[?]
ffarme, to son George lease of Beaminster Prima, daughter Margaret 500 l.,
daughter Anne 500 l., daughters Dorathie, Brigitte, and Alice 100 l. each, son
Hughe 100 l.
residue to son Rob't (executor), brother Henrie Coker and my brother Thomas
Strode myne Ou[er]seers
w.p. 6 Sep. 1581
Will of Robert Strode of Parham, esq, 1559 PCC 53 Claynay (FHL film #91,936)
w.d. 13 April 1559
-to be buryed within the churche of Bymy[n]ster where my Auncestours have been
wont to be buryed
"Item I give unto my sonne Thomas Strode my lease of Stoke under hamdon my
lease of Aller and ij hundred poundes of Currant money"
"Also I will that my sonne Thomas shalhave all the stuffe at Stoke aforesaide
and the olde wheate and the newe wheate to remayne unto my sonne John
Strode...."
[other material not abstracted]
w.p. 11 Nov. 1559
1564 William Clifton, esq., of Barrington 34 Stevenson (91,942)
w.d. 20 July 1562
"I bequeath to Theophila Clifton my daughter one hundrethe poundes in redie
money"
(under age 16)
w.p. 30 Nov. 1564 by son John Clifton, esquire
It was this William's son who was Sir John Clifton, of Barrington Court,
Somerset, father of Sir Gervase Clifton, MP (b. ca. 1570).
Hutchins' in the notes attached to the Strode pedigree, reads, Note [Y]:
"Thomas, brother of this John was styled of Stoke, seems to have held Gussage
St. Michael in this county, and had issue John, Thomas, Dorothy married to Sir
Thomas Foliot, kt. and Elizabeth married to John Philpot of Corfe."
Robert Strode, father of Thomas Strode of Stoke, married Elizabeth Hody.
Paul
Reedpcgen
of Matlock temp. Eliz (PRO E134/MISC/2623).
He left a will proved in 1613, PCC 41 Capell.
Sir John Clifton, of Barrington, left a will in 1593, PCC 52 Nevell.
Paul
Robert O'Connor
Hamdon is now proven absolutely!
Thank you Paul, Rita and all the other contributors to this thread for
contributing so productively and helpfully.
Best wishes
Robert
Rita Gerrard
Found some information for you.
Sir Thomas BLOUNT, b. circa 1420, Girsby, Lincoln,Died: 1468
son of Sir Thomas BLOUNT and Margery GRESLEY
married 1. Agnes HAWLEY, dau and heir of Sr John HAWLEY,knt of Canons
Utterby in Lincs.
issue: Robert BLOUNT, b. 1459, d. 1514.
" Elisabeth BLOUNT, b. circa 1454, married Richard HANSARD.
married 2.Catherine, dau of Sir Gervase CLIFTON of Clifton, Notts.
issue: Richard BLOUNT.
NOTE:
John Burke,Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland**, Vol. III, R. Bentley,
London, 1834-1838, p. 165, BLOUNT, OF MAPLE-DURHAM.
"Sir Thomas Blount.In 1462, King Edward IV granted him the Manor of Milton
Ross, and other estates in the counties of Leicester and Lincoln, and
appointed him, in thesame year, treasurer of Calais. He married, first,
Agnes, daughter and heir of Sir John Hawley,knt of Canons Utterby, in
Lincolnshire, and had issue, Robert, born in 1459, who died in 1514, and
Elisabeth, m. to Richard Hansard. Sir Thomas esposed, secondly, Catherine,
daughter of Sir Gervase Clifton, of Clifton,Nottinghamshire, and left by
that lady, at his decease, 8th Edward IV 1468, an only son, Richard Blount."
PS.** Ido not have this Publication, only the reference, so this information
should be checked from the original.
Rita A GERRARD