Richard de Bingham: was he married to Parnelle Warmwell or Alice Bertram or both women????

Michael Rochester

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Feb 10, 2021, 6:32:30 PM2/10/21

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Hi all, I am a descendant of Richard de Bingham via his daughter Agatha, who married Sir Ralph Bellers.

Burkes, Richardson, CP points to Richard de Bingham marrying Pernelle Warmwell, other sources point to Alice Bertram, of the Mitford Bertram family.http://www.themcs.org/churches/Bingham%20St%20Mary%20and%20All%20Saints.html

The Visitations of the County of Nottingham in the Years 1569 and 1614, page 144
↑ The Bingham family in the United States, especially of the state of Connecticut : including notes on the Binghams of Philadelphia, Vol I, part I, page 36

THE PEERAGE 588441

Marshall, George William. The Visitations of the County of Nottingham in the Years 1569 and 1614 (London, 1871) Page 144 at Internet Archive.org

Agatha Bingham 1310-1345
21st great-grandmother
(Sir) James Bellers 1335-1411
Son of Agatha Bingham
Elizabeth Bellard 1350-1377
Daughter of (Sir) James Bellers
Joan Talbot 1375-
Daughter of Elizabeth Bellard
Elizabeth Mallory 1400-
Daughter of Joan Talbot
Elizabeth Eure 1426-1482
Daughter of Elizabeth Mallory
Ralph Bulmer 1445-1486
Son of Elizabeth Eure
(Sir) William Bulmer 1465-1531
Son of Ralph Bulmer
(Sir) John Bulmer 1490-1537
Son of (Sir) William Bulmer
(Sir) Ralph Bulmer 1510-1558
Son of (Sir) John Bulmer
Anne Bulmer 1554-1624
Daughter of (Sir) Ralph Bulmer
Margery Welbury 1575-1606
Daughter of Anne Bulmer
Robert Eden 1590-1662
Son of Margery Welbury
John Eden 1616-1675
Son of Robert Eden
Layton (Laton) Eden Vicar of Hartburn 1645-1735
Son of John Eden
Jane Eden 1710-1798
Daughter of Layton (Laton) Eden Vicar of Hartburn
Margaret Harle 1734-1818
Daughter of Jane Eden
George Eden Meggison 1756-1815
Son of Margaret Harle
Thomas Meggison 1803-1883
Son of George Eden Meggison
Thomas Cuthbert Meggison 1847-1924
Son of Thomas Meggison
Thomas Bernard Meggison 1877-1965
Son of Thomas Cuthbert Meggison
Ernest Joseph Meggison 1914-1995
Son of Thomas Bernard Meggison
Thomas Frederick Meggison 1944-
Son of Ernest Joseph Meggison
Michael Thomas Meggison

Michael Rochester

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Feb 10, 2021, 6:38:21 PM2/10/21

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The Bertram source I believe is from the Visitation of Nottinghamshire:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitations_of_the_County_of_Notting/zS4EAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=bertram

wjhonson

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Feb 11, 2021, 10:27:13 AM2/11/21

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https://www.google.com/books/edition/Leicestershire_Pedigrees_and_Royal_Desce/VpnC3wgof6gC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA26-IA4&printsec=frontcover&bsq=Freville

States that the parents of Agatha were Sir Richard Bingham and Mary FREVILLE
Not only that, but she was a co-heiress so the specific claim should be simple to track

wjhonson

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Feb 11, 2021, 10:56:05 AM2/11/21

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I believe that the Richard to which you referred originally, lived about a century earlier.

Michael Rochester

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Feb 11, 2021, 2:09:32 PM2/11/21

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Thank you! Downloaded book for reference; will attempt to work backwards and get this down right.

Mike

Michael Rochester

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Feb 11, 2021, 2:56:28 PM2/11/21

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Okay.... I checked the book, and the book claims here: "SIR RALPH BELLARS, knight of the shire in 1325, who by Agatha, dau.of Sir Richard Dynham his wife, was father of two sons, Sir James, and Sir Richard."

Richardson says the surname is Agatha BINGHAM not Dynham.

Agatha Bingham was born circa 1308 at England.1 She married Ralph Bellers circa 1335.1
Family
Ralph Bellers b. c 1305
Child
Sir James Bellers+1 b. c 1344, d. a 1411
Citations
[S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. I, p. 350-351.

But digging deeper, some sources say Agatha Bingham Beller's mother is Pernelle Warmwell, others place her mom as Alice Bertram, so there is no consensus here yet here.

Mikw

wjhonson

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Feb 12, 2021, 11:39:50 AM2/12/21

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It seems *far far* more likely that someone has conflated two Ralph Bellers, who married two Agathas to being the exact same person.
However that Agatha Bingham who was co-heiress of her father Sir Richard Bingham Justice of the King's Bench by his wife Margaret Freville was certainly born around 1450 more or less

Michael Rochester

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Feb 13, 2021, 1:02:21 PM2/13/21

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I think the book makes a mistake about Agatha being a Dyneham and not a Bingham. Dyneham can hardly be found in records; Bingham much more so....

wjhonson

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Feb 14, 2021, 12:39:00 PM2/14/21

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On Saturday, February 13, 2021 at 10:02:21 AM UTC-8, kingofr...@gmail.com wrote:
> I think the book makes a mistake about Agatha being a Dyneham and not a Bingham. Dyneham can hardly be found in records; Bingham much more so....

You need to realize that many (most?) of the countryside was illiterate and spellings were not consistent.

DINHAM