info
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Jochi
74 views
Skip to first unread message
Leo van de Pas
Apr 5, 2013, 7:49:39 PM4/5/13
to Gen-Med
A long time ago it was mentioned that Jochi, while a son of Borte, is not a son of Ghenghis Khan.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Based on the work of Zhao Qingzhi, this is a basic overview of the
marriage alliances between the descendants of Genghis Khan and the
Onggirat tribe, one of their principal marital partners.
Dei Sechen and his wife Chotan were the parents of Borte, wife of
Genghis Khan and the mother of his most important children. They had
sons as well, Anchen, Huohu and Ce, and Borte's nephews would serve as
generals to their Chinggisid cousins.
Wochen son of Anchen was made Brigade Commander in 1238 and married
Yesu-Buhua, daughter of Tolui. After Wochen died, his brother Nachen
took over his position and served under Mongke Khan. Nachen's sons
were Woluochen, Tiemur, and Manzitai, each of whom in succession
married Khubilai's daughter Nangjiazhen. Tiemur's son Diwabula (Diao'a-
bula) married Xianggelaji (daughter of Darmabala, son of Zhenjin, son
of Khubilai) and by her was the father of Buda-shili, empress of
Wenzong. Woluochen's daughter, Shiliandali, married Emperor Chenzong
and had by him a son named Deshou, who died young in 1305.
Anchen's daughter Oki-fujin married her cousin Jochi, son of Genghis
and Borte and Anchen's son Chigu married Tumanlun, sister of Jochi.
Chabui, another daughter of Anchen, was one of the wives of Khubilai
Khan.
Tuolian was a grandson of Anchen and a general of Khubilai Khan. In
1287, he was sent to supress the revolt of Naiyan (a great-great-
grandson of Odchigin, younger brother of Genghis Khan). His daughter
was Tiegulun who married Khubilai Khan; his son was Bengbula.
Bengbula's daughter Zhenge was the empress of Wuzong. Bengbula's son
Maizhuhan was the father of Sugedali and Bihan, empresses of Taiding.
Another son of Bengbula, Boluo Temur, was the father of Buyanhudu,
empress of Mingzong.
Chagatai, son of Genghis and Borte, married his cousins Yesulun and
Togen, daughters of Qata. Their father Qata was the son of Daritai,
and Daritai was the brother of Dei Sechen.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Based on the work of Zhao Qingzhi, this is a basic overview of the
marriage alliances between the descendants of Genghis Khan and the
Onggirat tribe, one of their principal marital partners.
Dei Sechen and his wife Chotan were the parents of Borte, wife of
Genghis Khan and the mother of his most important children. They had
sons as well, Anchen, Huohu and Ce, and Borte's nephews would serve as
generals to their Chinggisid cousins.
Wochen son of Anchen was made Brigade Commander in 1238 and married
Yesu-Buhua, daughter of Tolui. After Wochen died, his brother Nachen
took over his position and served under Mongke Khan. Nachen's sons
were Woluochen, Tiemur, and Manzitai, each of whom in succession
married Khubilai's daughter Nangjiazhen. Tiemur's son Diwabula (Diao'a-
bula) married Xianggelaji (daughter of Darmabala, son of Zhenjin, son
of Khubilai) and by her was the father of Buda-shili, empress of
Wenzong. Woluochen's daughter, Shiliandali, married Emperor Chenzong
and had by him a son named Deshou, who died young in 1305.
Anchen's daughter Oki-fujin married her cousin Jochi, son of Genghis
and Borte and Anchen's son Chigu married Tumanlun, sister of Jochi.
Chabui, another daughter of Anchen, was one of the wives of Khubilai
Khan.
Tuolian was a grandson of Anchen and a general of Khubilai Khan. In
1287, he was sent to supress the revolt of Naiyan (a great-great-
grandson of Odchigin, younger brother of Genghis Khan). His daughter
was Tiegulun who married Khubilai Khan; his son was Bengbula.
Bengbula's daughter Zhenge was the empress of Wuzong. Bengbula's son
Maizhuhan was the father of Sugedali and Bihan, empresses of Taiding.
Another son of Bengbula, Boluo Temur, was the father of Buyanhudu,
empress of Mingzong.
Chagatai, son of Genghis and Borte, married his cousins Yesulun and
Togen, daughters of Qata. Their father Qata was the son of Daritai,
and Daritai was the brother of Dei Sechen.
Leo van de Pas
Apr 5, 2013, 7:49:39 PM4/5/13
to Gen-Med
Wjhonson
Apr 5, 2013, 6:52:35 PM4/5/13
to can...@netspeed.com.au, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jochi
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message
Leo van de Pas
Apr 5, 2013, 7:49:39 PM4/5/13
to Gen-Med
Nichol...@yahoo.com
Apr 5, 2013, 10:35:44 PM4/5/13
to
Jochi's paternity is the subject of much debate, but The Secret
History of the Mongols implies that Borte was already pregnant with
him when she was captured (The Secret History of the Mongols: The Life
and Times of Chinggis Khan, ed. Urgunge Onon, 2001); Genghis Khan
himself, when recalling the incident, says that the Merkits "robbed me
of my wife and unborn son." For whatever reason, most proponents of
the 'Jochi was illegitimate' argument seem to ignore this passage.
Mongol couplies lived together in close quarters, inside the same
yurt, and it would've been obvious quite quickly that Borte was
pregnant when her menses stopped. Both she and her husband could've
been very aware that she was pregnant before she was captured. It is
true that Genghis and Borte's other son, Chagatai, openly questioned
his brother's paternity, but Jochi was the firstborn son and Chagatai
must've known that casting doubts on his brother's paternity was the
surest way to discredit him. The other 'evidence' is that Jochi's name
means 'visitor, guest' in the Mongol language, but at the time he was
born his parents were guests in the orda of Genghis Khan's blood-
brother Jamuka, and his name was probably a reference to that (also,
it is doubtful that Genghis Khan, who always acknowledged Jochi as his
son, would do something like name him "bastard" or suchlike).
History of the Mongols implies that Borte was already pregnant with
him when she was captured (The Secret History of the Mongols: The Life
and Times of Chinggis Khan, ed. Urgunge Onon, 2001); Genghis Khan
himself, when recalling the incident, says that the Merkits "robbed me
of my wife and unborn son." For whatever reason, most proponents of
the 'Jochi was illegitimate' argument seem to ignore this passage.
Mongol couplies lived together in close quarters, inside the same
yurt, and it would've been obvious quite quickly that Borte was
pregnant when her menses stopped. Both she and her husband could've
been very aware that she was pregnant before she was captured. It is
true that Genghis and Borte's other son, Chagatai, openly questioned
his brother's paternity, but Jochi was the firstborn son and Chagatai
must've known that casting doubts on his brother's paternity was the
surest way to discredit him. The other 'evidence' is that Jochi's name
means 'visitor, guest' in the Mongol language, but at the time he was
born his parents were guests in the orda of Genghis Khan's blood-
brother Jamuka, and his name was probably a reference to that (also,
it is doubtful that Genghis Khan, who always acknowledged Jochi as his
son, would do something like name him "bastard" or suchlike).
Wjhonson
Apr 6, 2013, 9:59:43 AM4/6/13
to Nichol...@yahoo.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
0 new messages