Maurice de Craon/Creon
Gidne
I was wondering if anyone may help me distinguish which Maurice de
Craon I have in my family line.
The Maurice de Craon which I believe belongs to my tree was father of
Guy (Wido) II de Craon and son of Alan de Craon. He was b. ca 1132, d.
ca 1188.
I have his wife as Clarice with no more information about her. Her
identity as a wife is confirmed by a charter in 1166.
I am assuming that my Maurice's identity and descent/ancestry is
different from that of the Maurice de Craon who married Isabel de
Beaumont???
What I would like to know is whether 'my' Maurice was
a) the appointed keeper of the castle of Ancennis and governer of
Maine and Anjou
b) one of the pleripotentiaries on the part of the King in the
treaties between he and Philip (or Louis?) King of France
c) one of the quasi troubadours, who along with his son Peter, wrote
poems and songs "chansones de Maurice et de Pierre de Craon, poetes
Anglo-Normad du XII seicle"
Many thanks for any help along the way!
All the best,
Pamela
jonathan kirton
I have just received in the last week a copy of Daniel Power's "The
Norman Frontier in the Twelfth and Early Thirteenth Centuries".
This would seem to indicate that:
Maurice II de Craon, second husband of Isabella de Craon, dau. of
Waleran II de Meulan, made a will, circa 1189 when he was preparing
to go on crusade (pps. 71 & 182).
Isabella, Lady of Fougere, died circa 1205, and chose to be buried at
Savigny, amongst her ancestors and kin.
She was evidently the mother of Maurice III de Craon, and his
brothers, Peter and Amaury
(pps. 329 & 437-8).
Any help?
Jonathan
CE Wood
to Maud de Bernake (was CP Addition:..)
Options" by John P. Ravilious, 25 Aug 2005, in the SGM archives.
Also, "Dakeny, NO. Craon, yes?"by Kay Allen, 22 Apr 2002.
CEWood
wjhonson
wrote:
I think there is a missing generation here.
Maurice II was not only an adult but probably a bit old in 1189 as his
own father had died 1136/9. Maurice himself must have been at least
50, possibly as old as 75 at the time he made his will.
His wife Isabel de Meulan was born between 1141 and 1148. Her death
date is given at genealogics as 10 May 1220.
Maurice III de Craon the Seneschal of Anjou married a woman, Isabella
(de Lusignan) daughter of Hugh and Isabella the former Queen of
England, who cannot have been born before 1220.
I just don't accept that Maurice was 30 or more years older than his
wife. I think it's more believable that Maurice III was the son of
Amaury.
Will Johnson
jhigg...@yahoo.com
The various individuals named Maurice de Craon in Jonathan's post are
distinct from the Maurice de Craon referenced by Pamela in the
original post of this thread. See the detailed pedigree of the family
in vol. 3 part 4 of Schwennicke's "Europâische Stammtafeln", in which
the relevant individals appear on page 719.
Pamela's Maurice, son of Alain and father of Guy, was from a junior
line of the family which apparently settled in England. This
Maurice's grandfather Guy (father of Alain), lord of Preiiston, is
assigned by Schwennicke, with some uncertainty, as a younger brother
of Maurice I de Craon (d. 1116) who can be found in Leo's Genealogics
site. This placement agrees with the messages in the archives noted
by C.E. Wood, but it is apparently based on English sources, not
French ones. In particular, Pere Anselme's work does not include this
junior line of the Craon family at all, and Schwennicke does not show
the wives indicated for this branch of the family in the archived
message.
The individuals noted in Jonathan's message are in the senior line of
the family and are likely the ones who held the positions noted by
Pamela, not the Maurice of the English branch. Their descent as shown
in Schwennicke and Anselme is accuratly shown in Leo's database.
And for Will, it was Maurice IV (son of Amaury and nephew of Maurice
III), not Maurice III (who was unmarried), who married Isabelle de
Lusignan. This should resolve your chronological concerns.