Relationship of Sir William Browne and Isabel Pyke

[Chris Hampson]

In his will of 1513 Sir William mentions a numbers of "cousins", the first of which is Isabel Pyke and second is the son of his true cousin. Isabel was the daughter of John Hosyer, who was one of the overseers of the will, and wife of John Pyke, goldsmith. Does anyone know of a familial relationship between Sir William and Isabel? Being the daughter of a close friend doesn't seem to warrant being called cousin.
Chris

[taf]

I haven't had time to give it a full read right now, but Hosyer and Browne, along with John West, appear as plaintiffs in a Chancery suit, in which the defendants are James Missenden and Agnes, formerly wife of John Malet. She is named as cousin in the will of Anne (Belwood) Browne, William's mother. John Malet was named in a Belwood transaction. Roger Beltoft, holding land to the use of Thomas Belwood the elder, enfeoffed a group of men including John Malet to hold to the use of Thomas Belwood the younger. The Hosyer & Browne suit also names a Thomas 'Belwod', Richard Hatton, clerk, another known kinsman, and a Sheffield, who was a cousin of the Belwoods.

The relationship was likely via the Belwoods.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7465849
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/ChP/C1no320/IMG_0004.htm

taf

[taf]

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 8:49:36 PM UTC-8, taf wrote:
>
> The relationship was likely via the Belwoods.

Another couple of convergences.

The 1503 will of Anne (Belwood) indicates that her nephew Thomas Belwood, son of her brother Thomas, was apprentice with John Hosyer, mercer.

The 1509 will of Richard Hatton, nephew of Anne (Belwood) Browne, leaves a legacy to John Hosyer the elder, also naming, with others, his (Richard's) parents Nicholas and Isabel Hatton, William Browne, John Browne, Thomas Browne, James Mallett, clerk (presumably the Jacob Malet, cleric, presented to Irby in 1493 by John Malet), and John Belwode (Anne's will refers to her nephew John as "now being with Sir Doctor Richard Hatton").

taf

[steven perkins]

Professor David Pike of Newfoundland has a Pike Family website with
extensive Pike/Py(c)ke(s) wills from England starting in 1540 with Alice
Pycke of Glastonbury, Somerset, gentlewoman:

https://www.math.mun.ca/~dapike/family_history/

Regards,
Steven

> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>



--
Steven C. Perkins SCPe...@gmail.com http://stevencperkins.com/
Indigenous Peoples' Rights http://intelligent-internet.info/law/ipr2.html
Indigenous & Ethnic Minority Legal News http://iemlnews.blogspot.com/
Online Journal of Genetics and Genealogy http://jgg-online.blogspot.com/
S.C. Perkins' Genealogy Page http://stevencperkins.com/genealogy.html
S.C. Perkins' Genealogy Blog http://scpgen.blogspot.com/

[taf]

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 9:17:45 AM UTC-7, steven perkins wrote:
> Professor David Pike of Newfoundland has a Pike Family website with
> extensive Pike/Py(c)ke(s) wills from England starting in 1540 with Alice
> Pycke of Glastonbury, Somerset, gentlewoman:

I don't see a connection, but the Pykes here are slightly older. The rather short will of John Pyke of London, goldsmith, is from 1533, naming his wife Isabel and his son-in-law Bernard Jenynges (?).

taf

[taf]

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 8:49:36 PM UTC-8, taf wrote:

> I haven't had time to give it a full read right now, but Hosyer and
> Browne, along with John West, appear as plaintiffs in a Chancery suit, in
> which the defendants are James Missenden and Agnes, formerly wife of John
> Malet.

I just noticed that 'John West, mercer, and my cousin, his wife,' are named in William Browne's will, and West and Hosyer are among those named overseers.

taf

[taf]

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 8:01:12 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 8:49:36 PM UTC-8, taf wrote:
> >
> > The relationship was likely via the Belwoods.
>
> Another couple of convergences.

And another set of relevant interactions:

In 1505, Robert Sheffeld, knight, Richard Hatton, clerk; William Broun, gent, and Thomas Moryce have a suit against John West, John Robyns, and Thomas Belwode

Then a few years later, 6 Henry VIII, John Hosyer & John West of London, mercers, John Pyke, goldsmith, and John Moreys (probably the same surname as Moryce, above) transfer property to Henry Wyat, Edward Ponynges, John Cutte, and John Leigh, knights, and others to the use of the said Sir Henry Wyat.

Also in 1505, Richard Hatton, clerk; John Hosyer, John West, Erasmus Fiorde (named in Anne Browne's will), mercer, and John Broun were involved in a suit against Hugh Croft.

Again, we seem to be seeing Hosyer clustering with known Belwood kin of Lincolnshire, rather than it being a Browne connection.

The will of John West, citizen and mercer, names wife Elizabeth and children William, John, James and Catherine. He later leaves his "yards of cloth" to "Master Hosyer, my cosyn Pyke and his wyfe, Master Mundy and his wyfe [i.e. Julian Browne, daughter of William], Robert Palmer and his wyfe, Wyllyam, John and James my sonnes and Catherine my daughter, Wyllyam Colshill, Wyllyam Mathewe, and my brother Wytlok (?). He provides for prayers at the parish of Millington, "where I was born" for his soul and those of his deceased parents James West and Alyce West, for John Broun, John West, his wife Elizabeth and his children. He requires a payment to (I think this is what it says) "the next here of S[i]r John Browne, Late Citizen and Alderman of London", and leaves a legacy to Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Palmer, and named John Mondy (sic) and Robert Palmer as overseers. John Hosyer was a witness.

The 1497 will of Sir John Broune leaves a legacy to Margarete Hosier, wife of John Hosier, mercer, and later to John West, mercer, and his children. I am not sure what to make of this, but when abstracts were published in Notes & Queries, it reported that the will: Names his wife's sister, Elizabeth Belknap, late the wife of Richard [sic] Hatton (Haddon?), mercer, and "my cosen her son Doctour Hatton, and Margarete Hosier, wife of John Hosier, mercer," and "my wife's brother, Thomas Belwoode." The clustering of Doctour Hatton and Margarete Hosier seems relevant, yet when I look at the PROB will
it goes straight from Hatton to Belwoode, and Hosier comes much later. It is unclear what has happened here - could there be another version of the will out there that differs in the order of legacies?

Given the way the Livery Companies tended to marry, could it be that Margaret Hosyer, wife of John, and the wife of John West (probably not the same as his widow, Elizabeth, given that she wasn't mentioned with her family in 1497), were daughters of Nicholas Hatton, mercer, of London, and of Isabel/Elizabeth (Belwood) Hatton, sister of Anne (Belwood) Browne?

taf

[Chris Hampson]

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 6:16:21 PM UTC-8, Chris Hampson wrote:

> In his will of 1513 Sir William mentions a numbers of "cousins", the first of which is Isabel Pyke and second is the son of his true cousin. Isabel was the daughter of John Hosyer, who was one of the overseers of the will, and wife of John Pyke, goldsmith. Does anyone know of a familial relationship between Sir William and Isabel? Being the daughter of a close friend doesn't seem to warrant being called cousin.
> Chris

Hi taf, earlier today I saw someone's transcription of Sir John's will with the mention of Margarete Hosier in the context of being a Belwood, but my reply on the subject didn't seem to get through. I need to look at the probate copy to see what was actually said, but all you've turned up seems to suggest Belwood.

[taf]

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 7:29:34 PM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:

> Hi taf, earlier today I saw someone's transcription of Sir John's will
> with the mention of Margarete Hosier in the context of being a Belwood,
> but my reply on the subject didn't seem to get through. I need to look
> at the probate copy to see what was actually said, but all you've turned
> up seems to suggest Belwood.

The abstract I was looking at was from Notes & Queries, 7th Ser. 5:151-2, where as I said it reports:

Sir John Browne.—Will dated November 3, 1496; proved January 25, 1497. . . . and bequeaths a sum towards the parish church there, and to "my poor kynnefolk dwelling within the said county"; and moneys to various persons to pray for his soul, among them being Maister George Werke, clerk, and Alice his sister; Thomas and Rauffe a Werke; James a Werke, his wife and children; Margaret Haydock, widow; Sir John Fenkell, Knight, and my lady his wife; Edward Fenkell, &c. Names his wife's sister, Elizabeth Belknap, late the wife of Richard Hatton (Haddon?), mercer, and "my cosen her son Doctour Hatton, and Margarete Hosier, wife of John Hosier, mercer," and "my wife's brother, Thomas Belwoode." Leaves bequests to the four children of his son William (naming his late wife as "Kateryn, daughter of Lady Shaa"), also to John West, mercer, and his children; George Nevill, mercer,&c. His "cosen" William Browne, mercer, of Stebonhethe (Stepney), is left overseer of the will. Executors, his wife Anne, and his sons William and Thomas.


A highly similar abstract appears in Fenland Notes & Queries, 1:316-9, but I doubt it is original, both making the husband of 'Elizabeth' Belknap "Richard Hatton (Haddon?), mercer" ('Nicħas' misread as "Ricħus").

The will itself begins with the various Werke/a Werke legacies, then says, "I bequeath to my wifes suster Elizabell Belknap late the wife of Nicħas Hatton mercer to ƥy for my soule v lī and to my Cosen her sonne doctour Hatton to ƥy for my soule v mrē Item I bequeath to my wifes broder called Thomas Belwoode to ƥy for my soule v lī Item I bequeath to my Cosyn Margarete Haydock Widow . . ." then leaves legacies to John Nevill, son of George Nevile mercer, three apprentices, two cooks, a woman servant, then "I bequeath to Margarete Hosier wife of John Hosier mercer to ƥy for my soule v mrē and to Morgan Williams iii lī", then "my Cosyn Sir John Fenkell knyght and to my lady his wife", . . . "to my Cosen Edward Fenkell", . . . son Thomas Browne, "Cosen William Browne mercer of Stebenhith", "the iiii children of William Browne my sonne and of Kateryn late his wife", Dame Anne my wife, . . . Lord Cardinal Archbishop of Canterbury to be a good and generous lord to Dame Anne and sons William Browne and Thomas Browne, "Item I bequeath to John West mercer and to his children to pray for my soule v mrē", George Nevill mercer, fellowship of Mercers, son William Browne and his heirs money to complete bargain with Lady Shaa, more to wife Anne and sons Thomas and William, another to George a Werke, and finally one to the Master and Brethren of St. Thomas of Acres, where his son Richard Browne is buried.

So, the order is completely different. I wouldn't think anything of this, interpreting it as simply the quirk of the abstractor, were it not for the quotes linking the references to Dr Hatton and Margaret Hosier in the N & Q abstract.

taf

[taf]

I have found full transcript of John's will:

https://books.google.com/books?id=AFtIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA243

It is imperfect, making several misreadings, but it should show the precise order and descriptions of those left legacies.

taf

[taf]

While we are talking about Brown cousins, I find three ipms (Kent, Surrey & Sussex) for Elizabeth Broun, d. 1 Feb. 1487/8, widow first of Robert Ponynges, esq., then of George Brown, knt. Each of the three reports that Elizabeth and George had been granted land for their lives by John Broun, John Fynkell, Edward Fynkell and Henry Asshborn.

George died 3 Dec. 1483 and was attainted. (There is a whole string of entries in the recently-published Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous, vol. 8 (2003), relating to George, but I can't see the first of them that describes George's attainder.)

John Fynkell is a 'cousin' of John Browne, and his will names his brother Edward, but also names George Warke, whom John Browne names as cousin. Thus there are at least two and perhaps three Browne kinsmen making what is probably a marriage settlement on another Browne. Nonetheless, it appears to be coincidence as George came from a different part of the country than John.


FWIW, the widow of Sir John Fynkell was named Katherine, when Thomas Cremor, draper and merchant of London acted as executor on her behalf, then as Katherine Cremor alias Fynkell, widow and executrix of Thomas Cremor. Finally she is named "Katherine Fynkell alias Johnes, late wife of Sir John Fenkyll, when in the 1530s her own executors were acting.

[Adrian]

> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is such a strange bequest in Sir John Browne's will:

"my two cussons Thomas a Werke and Renfe[?] a Werke which were taken
prisoners by the Scotts towards there ranson v markes"

Have these cousins got to wait for the death of Sir John before they are
freed and for quite a small sum. Perhaps the cousins have already been
freed, and this bequest is to pay back the moneylenders.


By the way Werke (Wark) is on the Tweed, bordering Scotland, not to be
confused with Wark on the Tees, not Warkworth, I think all three places
are in Northumberland and had castles (nothing remains of the the Castle
on the Tweed, excempt some ramparts.)




You might be able to make use of Anne Browne's will, my transcription
(more than 15 years ago) should not be relied upon:

Will of Anne Browne wife of John Lord Mayor of London 1480

[line 01] In the name of God be it amen the xiith day of the month of
Janvier [line 02] in the year of our lord a thousand five hundred and
three I Anne Browne widow late wife of Sr John [line 03] Browne knight
citizon while he lived and alderman of London being hole of mynde and in
good memory laud [line 04] and praising be unto almighty god make and
ordayne this my present testament in name and form folowing that [line
05] is to say ffirst I bequeath and commend my soul unto almighty god my
maker and to the most glorious virgin his [line 06] mother our lady
saint Mary and to all the holy company of Saints in heaven And my body
to be burried in the parish church of [line 07] saint Mary Magdelene of
London there where the body of my said dear and welbeloved husband lieth
burried [line 08] my body so buried then I will that all such debts as I
owe to any person or persons of right or of conscience be well & truley
[line 09] paid Then I bequeath to the high alter of the said church of
Saint Mary Magdeline for tithes and oblac'ions forgotten [line 10] or
withholden if any be as I know none so to be in discharge of my soul vis
viiid Then I bequeath for my burial to be [line 11] said in the said
church in the place aforsaid xs Then I will that my executors here
underwritten do provide and [line 12] ordaine for me xx honest torches
to convay my body into earth And I will that my body be burried honestly
[line 13] without any pompe or pride of the world Then I will that xx
poor householders that be no comon beggers bere [line 14] the said xx
torches And I bequeath to any of them for his labour in that behalf and
to pray specially for my soul and for [line 15] the soul of my said late
husband xiid Then I bequeath x marks to be delt among poor people the
day next off my [line 16] my decease only poor to have thereof id as
long as it will extend thereto Then I bequeath to either of the prison
[line 17] houses of Newgate and Ludgate of London xs to be distribute
among the poor prisoners being detained [line 18] in the said prison
houses in bread and other things as by my said executors shall thought
most needful and [line 19] benificial for the same prisones as shorter
as it may be goodly done after my decease Then I bequeath to the iiii
poor [line 20] lazar houses next about London towards the comforting of
the sick folk of the same lazerhouses xxvis viiid [line 21] that is to
say to any house thereof vis viiid Then I bequeath to the hospital or
spitelhouse called Saint Barthns [line 22] spital without Newgate of
London towards the refreshing and amending of the bedding and lodging
for poor [line 23] folk there ordained xxs Then I bequeath to other of
the prisonhouses of the Kings bench and Wanchalsea in [line 24]
Southwalk in like manor as is above bequeath to other of the prison
houses of Newgate and Ludgate vis [line 25] viiid Then I bequeath to the
iiii houses of friars in London that to wit the Grey Friers the Black
Friers [line 26] the Augustine friars and the croched friers iiiil that
is to say to each house thereof xxs praying theym [line 27] of their
charter to say for me in any of their said houses v masses in Thoms of
the v wounds that my _____ [line 28] Christ then suffered for me and all
mankind and to pray specially for my soul and the soul of my late
husband [line 29] in all the said masses Then I bequeath to the house of
the gynores without Algate of London to the extent to have [line 30] a
dirge and a mass there said for my soul xs Then I bequeath to the works
of the body of the parish church of [line 31] Belton in the countie of
Lincolnshire where I was Christened to the intent that I may be the more
specially prayed [?] for there [line 32] xls Then I bequeath to the
works of the body of the parish church of Saint Lawrence at More'ton [?]
in the countie of [line 33] Surrey xiiis iiiid Then I bequeath to the
Antre [?] beside Alhallows church at London Wall to pray for my soul and
the [line 34] soul of my said late husband vis viiid Then I bequeath to
my cousin Margaret Haydok widow to pray to my [line 35] soul xxs Then I
bequeath to my cousin Dame Agneis Haydok nun to pray for my soul xs Item
I bequeath to [line 36] my wellbeloved brother Thomas Belwood to pray
for my soul and for my said husbands soul iiili vis viiid[line 37] Then
I bequeath to my cousin Thomas Belwood son of my said brother now
apprentice with John Hofyer mercer the xli[line 38] sterling which my
said brother oweth me by his obligation the day of the date thereof Then
I bequeath to [line 39] Katherine Belwood my same brother's daughter
xlli to pray for my soul to be delivered unto her the day of her [line
40] marriage And to John Belwood her brother now being with Sir Doctor
Hutton xls And to his sister being [line 41] with the same Sir Doctor
Hutton other xls And to any of the other children of my said brother
Thomas Belwood [line 42] which be not here rehersed xxs except Elizabeth
Lonnde his daughter unto whom I have delivered already [line 43] part of
such goods as god hath lent me Then I bequeath to my well beloved sister
Isebell Bellnap with whom I [line 44] was brought up in my youth xls
Then I bequeath to my neveu [nephew] Sir Doctor Hutton to pray for my
soul a [line 45] ring of gold of the value xxs Then I bequeath to my
cousin Dame Jane Malet nun of Ormsby in the [line 46] countie of Lincoln
to pray for my soul xxs Then I Bequeath to the said John Hofyer to pray
for my soul a [line 47] ring of gold of the value of xxs And to my
Goddaughter Anne Hofyer daughter of the same John Hofyer to [line 48]
pray for my soul xxs And to Isabell her sister xxs Then I bequeath to
Elizabeth Watling my maiden servant. [line 49] v markes Then I bequath
to my servant Richard Ryder to pray for my soul xls Then I bequeath to
Richard Botomles [line 50] my servant in my kitchen to pray for my sole
vis viiid Then I bequeath to John Catcode[?] letherseller [?] to pray
[line 51] for my sole xls Then I bequeath to the marriage of lx poor
maidens of good name and of honest compasion [?] after [line 52] the
discretion of my executors xxl that is to say to any of them vis viiid
Then I bequeath to f Henry my chaplain [line 53] to pray for my soul x
marks Then I bequeath to Yden [?] Raynold late my servant to pray for my
soul vis viiid [line 54] Then I bequeath to my cousin George a Werk to
pray for my soul v marks Then I bequeath to my cosin John West [line 55]
to pray for my soul a ring of gold of the value of xxs and to Elizabeth
his wife another ring of [line 56] the same value Then I bequeath to
Mighell English mercer a ring of gold of the value of xxvis and to [line
57] Margaret his wife late the wife of my son Thomas Browne another ring
of the same value then I [line 58] bequeath to John West the younger
William West and Brigide [?] West xxs that is to say to any of them
[line 59] vis viiid Then I bequeath to John Thompson late my husbands
servant to pray for my soul vis viiid Then I bequeath [line 60] to
Robert Mores late my servant to pray for my soul xxs Then I bequeath to
Erasmas fford fford [x2 sic] and Humphrey Hills to [line 61] pray for my
soul xxs that is to say to either of them xs and to Richard Baker vis
viiid Then I bequeath to Nicholas [line 62] Leveston xxs Then I bequeath
to Alice my ____ to pray for my soul vis viiid and to Margaret her
daughter iiis iiiid [line 63] Then I bequeath to George Nevil mercer to
pray for my soul xxs Then I bequeath to Thomas Clys to pray for my soul
xxs [line 64] Then I will that my executors hereunder written do provide
and ordain a vertious and a well desposed priest to sing his [line 65]
mass and to say his other devine service in the said parish church of
Saint Mary Magdeline and to pray specially for my soul and [line 66] for
the soul of my said dear and wellbeloved husband during all the time
which shall happen to be for to come the [line 67] day of my decease of
the time of viii years contained in the testament and last will of my
said husband and for such chaplain [line 68] so to be found and by the
space of iiii years next after the end of the same viii years and I will
that the same priest have yearly [line 69] for his salary during the
said time vil viiis iiiid and that the said f Henry my chaplain be
preferred unto the said priest [line 70] before any other Then I
bequeath to __ Richard Baker late my chaplain to pray for my soul xxs
Then I bequeath to Jane [line 71] Beltoft servant with the said Mighell
English towards her marriage and to pray for my soul xls Then I release
and parden [line 72] unto Thomas Butler xxvis viiid which he oweth me
the day of the date hereof Then I bequeath to John the child [line 73]
of my _____ to his preferment to a good maister if he will be bond
apprentice xxs Then I bequeath to William [line 74] Lyndesoy to pray for
my soul vis viiid Then I will that my son and executor here underwritten
pay and deliver [line 75] unto my bedwomen maid Randolf six pennies
weekly on the Saterday from the day of my decease forward [line 76]
during the life of the same maid Randolf Then I bequeath to the ______
of John Browne and and George Browne xls [line 77] that is to wit to
either of them xxs Then I will that my son William Browne give and find
with my goods [line 78] unto my said servant Richard Ryder and Elizabeth
Watling mete drink and lodging during a hole year [line 79] next after
my decease if they be not promoted to some honest service with in the
same year Then I bequeath to the said William [line 80] Browne my son
and his children to the performance of their marriage and to pray for my
soul ll and to my [line 81] daughter Alice wife of the said William my
son to pray for my soul xl praying her to be loving mother unto her
[line 82] children and to all the children of my said son her husband
And ____ that I bequeath unto my cousin Juliann Browne [line 83]
daughters unto my said son William Browne xl and girdell and a pair of
beds Then I bequeath unto my cousin William [line 84] Browne alderman to
the extent that it may please him to be overseer of this my present
testament and to pray for my soul [line 85] a ring of gold of the value
of xls and I bequeath to any of the iii daughters of the same William
Browne alderman [line 86] a girdell of my wearingof after the descretion
of my exequters The residue of all my goods catalls and debts whatform
[line 87] they be after my debts paid my finlall expences fully done and
the legacies comprised in this my presnt testomany [line 88] preformed I
will it be devided unto two equal portions and I will that one of the
first equal portion thereof be dis [line 89] posed and distributed for
me in the _______ of ______ hath ______ to the marriage of poor and well
disposed [line 90] maidens and in other deeds of charity such as my said
executor shall think best to please almighty god to [line 91] most
profit unto my soul and the soul of my said dear and welbeloved husband
and that other equal [line 92] portion there of I give and bequeath
holly unto my said son William Browne be to do therewith his own free
[line 93] will and to pray for my soul the which William Browne my son I
make and ordain my sole executor [line 94] of this my present testomany
and his overseer of the same I make and ordain the said William Browne
alderman [line 95] In witness whereof to this my present testament I
have set my seal _____ the day and year abover rehurst [line 96] Then I
bequeath unto any of the said Katherine Belwood Elizabeth Watling and
Richard Rider my servant a [line 97] feterbeds a bolster a consitel [?]
a pair of blankets and a pair of sheets of myn Then I bequeath unto Eliz
[line 98] Browne late my servant xxs


Adrian

[taf]

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 9:04:20 AM UTC-7, Adrian wrote:

> There is such a strange bequest in Sir John Browne's will:
>
> "my two cussons Thomas a Werke and Renfe[?] a Werke which were taken
> prisoners by the Scotts towards there ranson v markes"

I read this as 'Raufe'(i.e. Ralph) and either 'rannson' or 'raunson'.

> Have these cousins got to wait for the death of Sir John before they are
> freed and for quite a small sum. Perhaps the cousins have already been
> freed, and this bequest is to pay back the moneylenders.

I interpreted this not as the entire amount due, but just a portion, that the two were having to raise a large sum and John was just kicking in a portion. And it is not even 5 marks each, but "to either of my two cussons" (or is this just a change in usage?).

> By the way Werke (Wark) is on the Tweed, bordering Scotland, not to be
> confused with Wark on the Tees, not Warkworth, I think all three places
> are in Northumberland and had castles (nothing remains of the the Castle
> on the Tweed, excempt some ramparts.)

That would make sense, it being not far from Lowick, which he also names.

> You might be able to make use of Anne Browne's will, my transcription
> (more than 15 years ago) should not be relied upon:

I have several different readings that we can discuss off list if you would like, but they don't really affect the overall reading. I can provide images of the PROB copy if you would like.

I just stumbled across the will of William Browne's uncle-in-law, Ralph Shaa. Ralph Shaa, Doctor of Diuinyte (i.e. Divinity) was indexed as Ralph Chaa, doctor, of the parish of Dininyte. His brother Edmund was similarly indexed Chaa, as was nephew Hugh. John Broune was indexed Bronne. I finally gave up and started going year by year with the name fields blank. Warning to all if you are looking for someone named Richard, one of the indexers has failed to make sense of 'Rici' in the Latin marginal inscriptions and indexed a whole lot of men named Richard as 'Ria'. There are more than 100 of these, plus more that are 'Pia'.

taf

[Chris Hampson]

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 6:16:21 PM UTC-8, Chris Hampson wrote:

> In his will of 1513 Sir William mentions a numbers of "cousins", the first of which is Isabel Pyke and second is the son of his true cousin. Isabel was the daughter of John Hosyer, who was one of the overseers of the will, and wife of John Pyke, goldsmith. Does anyone know of a familial relationship between Sir William and Isabel? Being the daughter of a close friend doesn't seem to warrant being called cousin.
> Chris

This seems very curious, but there again I don't know why I should be surprised! Sir John's will of 1497 explicitly mentions Margaret as the wife of John Hosyer, but Anne's will of 1480 mentions John and two daughters, but not Margaret.

I think taf mentioned Barnard Jenyn, he's the reason I'm at this stage. Barnard married the daughter of John Pyke and Isabel nee Hosyer. Two of Barnard's cousins were King's Skinner and one of them, Nicholas, married Margaret daughter of John Munday.

[taf]

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:08:57 AM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:

> This seems very curious, but there again I don't know why I should be
> surprised! Sir John's will of 1497 explicitly mentions Margaret as the
> wife of John Hosyer, but Anne's will of 1480 mentions John and two
> daughters, but not Margaret.

Wrong date - Anne's will is 1503.

> I think taf mentioned Barnard Jenyn, he's the reason I'm at this stage.
> Barnard married the daughter of John Pyke and Isabel nee Hosyer. Two of
> Barnard's cousins were King's Skinner and one of them, Nicholas, married
> Margaret daughter of John Munday.

I thought there might be a link there - you probably know that John Munday married Anne's granddaughter Julian Browne, William's daughter

taf

[Adrian]

I have this Elizabeth as daughter of John Paston. Her second marriage
was to Sir George Browne of Betchworth who was beheaded in 1483. Robert
Poynings was a supporter of the rebel Jack Cade (sometimes called his
cup-bearer, whatever that involved), but was subsequently pardoned. He
seems to have had an interest in St Margaret's place, Sothwark, almost
opposite the "White Hart" where Jack Cade was held up. Robert was killed
at the battle of St Albans (1469/70). Robert was 2nd son of Robert
Poynings (1380-1446) 5th Baron.


George Browne was son of Thomas Browne (1411-1460, executed 1460 with
five others) by Eleanor da of Sir Thomas Fitzalan. George's brother Sir
Anthony did have connections with the North.


John Pym Yeatman in his book Browne's of Betchworth shows that John
Browne London (mayor in 1480) acted as trustee for a number of
properties belonging to Thomas Browne, although I don't think he came to
a conclusion as to why. Thomas Browne was also attainted, so perhaps
this had somthing to do with property being in trust.

[Chris Hampson]

Of course, she wouldn't have made a will otherwise. Silly me ;)

[Chris Hampson]

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 8:01:12 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:

In the will of Isabel Gresham, widow of John Pyke and daughter of John Hosyer, the first names mentioned are Richard and Roger Hosyer, and a Phillis Goodman (I assume sister to the first two). There is evidence for Richard and Roger being the sons of John, but I felt this had to be a brother to Isabel. This mention of John Hosyer the elder would support this. They had connections to Hereford, which leads me to think they were related to the Hosyers (Hosiers) of Shrewsbury, who reputedly descended from Tudor Trevor.

[Chris Hampson]

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 2:56:26 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 8:01:12 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 8:49:36 PM UTC-8, taf wrote:
>
> The will of John West, citizen and mercer, names wife Elizabeth and children William, John, James and Catherine. He later leaves his "yards of cloth" to "Master Hosyer, my cosyn Pyke and his wyfe, Master Mundy and his wyfe [i.e. Julian Browne, daughter of William], Robert Palmer and his wyfe, Wyllyam, John and James my sonnes and Catherine my daughter, Wyllyam Colshill, Wyllyam Mathewe, and my brother Wytlok (?).

This is interesting. I assume this was John Pyke, but so far I've found nothing to suggest his origins. The question is, would he be "cosyn" based on his marriage to Isabel Hosyer or does it infer a relationship in his own right?

[taf]

Just as brother was used for brother-in-law, cousin would be used for relations by marriage. We know that Hosyer (or more likely his wife) was a member of the Belwood kindred (and as I said in another post, it wouldn't surprise me if she was a younger sister of Richard Hatton), and we know that West (or his wife) was a member of the same kindred, so there is every reason to attribute the use of this term here to this known relationship to Isabel Hosyer, rather than positing a novel relationship to her husband.

taf

[Chris Hampson]

You're bringing me around to the Hatton side of things.

[taf]

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 8:51:03 PM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:

> You're bringing me around to the Hatton side of things.

The recently published Medieval Account Books of the Mercers of London was some details on Nicholas.

https://books.google.com/books?id=L9EGDAAAQBAJ

He was issued from his apprenticeship under William Flete in 1442-43, and had apprentices of his own in 1445-6, when he also paid the fee for his first and year of admission to the livery. In 1479, a memorandum for the decease of Nicholas Hatton, "late Weyer of Sylk" was issued. There are also mentions on two pages I can't see of 'Hatton's wife's shop'.

John Broun/Browne also appears. In 1459-60 he had apprentice (and possible relative) William oo Werke, an in 1462-63 apprentice John oo Werke. There was a John Browne, apprentice of Thomas Steele/Stile, named, but I can't see the page to determine the date and whether this is the same John. It seems to be before 1440-41.

John Hosyer was made an apprentice of John Ward in 1456-7 (he was admitted 1468). There was an earlier John Hosyer paying rent in 1447.


Nicholas, and particularly his wife Isabel, receives coverage in a recent paper on London Silkwomen:
http://www.richardiii.net/downloads/Ricardian/2006_vol16_two_dozen_silkwomen_sutton.pdf

Notably, it refers to Isabel as sister of John Brown (not sister-in-law). The author never specifies her basis for this relationship. Of more interest to us, she cites the will of Nicholas Hatton, of which John Brown was executor, as "G[uildhall] L[ibrary], MS 9171/6, ff. 287v-88, dated 1470 and proved 1480". This is the Commissary Court of London (London Division), Will registers, 1374-1857, now held by the London Metropolitan Archives (and on LDS film 94094).

taf

[taf]

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 10:48:11 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:

> Notably, it refers to Isabel as sister of John Brown (not sister-in-law).

Let me put this to rest, formally. Both the Kent 1574 and London 1568 visitation pedigrees show John Browne marrying Anne Belwood in the generation of the same informant's great-grandmother. This matches John Browne's will referring to Thomas Belwood as his wife's brother. Anne's will names Thomas as brother, and names his son John Belwood, living with her nephew Dr [Richard] Hatton.

Anne was a Belwood, sister of THomas Belwood and aunt, by blood, of his children including John. What about Isabel Hatton?

Anne Browne's will refers to Isebell Bellnap as her sister, but that could mean sister-in-law. Fortunately John Browne's will is again explicit, calling Elizabell (sic) Belknap, his wife's sister. A Chancery claim involving William Belknap and his wife Isabel Belknap, formerly Isabel Hatton seemingly refers to her. Independent of this, the will of Dr Richard Hatton refers to John Belwood as his kinsman, which would only be the case were Hatton's mother to be related to the Brownes on Anne's Belwood side, rather than being a Browne. Thus it cannot be doubted that Isabel Hatton was indeed born Isabel Belwood, and not Isabel Browne.

taf

[Chris Hampson]

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 10:48:11 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:

> The recently published Medieval Account Books of the Mercers of London was some details on Nicholas.
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=L9EGDAAAQBAJ
>

360USD for the ebook!!!!

[taf]

And that's a bargain - the Kindle version is $450 on Amazon (though you can get a used hardcover for under $200). Clearly targeted toward libraries with sizable budgets and those obsessed with the subject, not the casual hobbyist/amateur scholar on a budget. As much as Google Books snippet of Preview limitations are frustrating, they represent the only way I would get to see this information.

taf

[Chris Hampson]

I searched for Browne and got a page (483) showing the admission of John Browne apprentice of Thomas Steele and the year is 1435-36.

[Chris Hampson]

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 10:48:11 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:

> On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 8:51:03 PM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:
>
> > You're bringing me around to the Hatton side of things.
>
> The recently published Medieval Account Books of the Mercers of London was some details on Nicholas.
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=L9EGDAAAQBAJ
>

> There are also mentions on two pages I can't see of 'Hatton's wife's shop'.
>

The two references show that the property was owned by Eastfield, who seems to have been a Master of the Mercers (I haven't explored this). Both are from the accounts for 1460-61. p919 is a rent increase for a small room above the shop rented by Thomas Lonmore. p929 is a decrease in rent for the shop for three quarters. Doesn't provide anything more.

[taf]

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 11:43:35 AM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:

> I searched for Browne and got a page (483) showing the admission of John
> Browne apprentice of Thomas Steele and the year is 1435-36.

While possible, that seems early to me. This would put John at about 80 when he died, which is possible but seems old - most estimates I see place his birth 1435-1440. John Browne being a common name, I have to wonder if this isn't a different John.

taf

[Chris Hampson]

I found a different option that I think you'll find more palatable. Richard Lakon and John Browne apprentices of Thomas Gibbys (aka Gibbes) on p798 and then in the index p1095 Richard Lakon apprentice to Thomas Gibbys 1456-57. I haven't been able to access the index page for Browne yet.

Next in 1458-59 p845, admission to the livery, the first year, John Browne 6s 8d.
Then in 1460-61 p909, admission to the livery, the third year, John Browne 6s 8d.

In 1456-7 p795 a John Brown has an apprentice Richard Elsy. Presumably the one I found from 1435-36; in 1446-47 he was "servant of Thomas Steelle".

There is also a record for a John Brown from 1400.

[taf]

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:55:45 PM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:

> I found a different option that I think you'll find more palatable.

Yes, indeed.

> Richard Lakon and John Browne apprentices of Thomas Gibbys (aka Gibbes)

This is the master given him in the silkwomen paper.

> on p798 and then in the index p1095 Richard Lakon apprentice to Thomas
> Gibbys 1456-57. I haven't been able to access the index page for Browne
> yet.

Nor I.

> Next in 1458-59 p845, admission to the livery, the first year, John Browne 6s 8d.
> Then in 1460-61 p909, admission to the livery, the third year, John Browne 6s 8d.
>

So the 1440 approximation I have seen is probably too late - 18 was too young to have finished his apprenticeship. I would put his birth in the early-to-mid 1430s, and he would have been in the neighborhood of 65 when he died.

> In 1456-7 p795 a John Brown has an apprentice Richard Elsy. Presumably the
> one I found from 1435-36; in 1446-47 he was "servant of Thomas Steelle".

Sounds reasonable.

> There is also a record for a John Brown from 1400.

Either its one thing or the or the other - I was disappointed over how few search matches I was getting for John Hosyer or Thomas Belwode. That is not the problem with John Browne.

taf

[Brian Hessick]

>
> Wrong date - Anne's will is 1503.
>

Adrian, do you have a citation for Anne Browne's testament? Im not seeing it in LMA nor PROB.

[taf]

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 8:45:15 PM UTC-7, Brian Hessick wrote:
> >
> > Wrong date - Anne's will is 1503.
> >
>
> Adrian, do you have a citation for Anne Browne's testament? Im not seeing it in LMA nor PROB.

Huh....that's odd. It appears to be misindexed under her husband's name and further misread. Her will was probated at PCC 4 March 1503(/4). It was previously catalogued as 2 Holgrave, appearing between those of John Smyth and John Van Deft, but with the recataloging of the PCC wills, they are now listed in chronological order by probate date, not register order. Looking in that volume (PROB 11/14) for wills probated that date, there is only one:

PROB 11/14/71
Description: Will of Sir John Bronn or Bronne, Alderman of London
Date: 04 March 1504

The actual will calls her "Anne Browne widowe late the wife of Sr John Broun knyght Citizen while he lyved and Alderman of London", so clearly this has been seriously botched in the indexing.

taf

[taf]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 4:16:05 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> PROB 11/14/71
> Description: Will of Sir John Bronn or Bronne, Alderman of London
> Date: 04 March 1504
>
> The actual will calls her "Anne Browne widowe late the wife of Sr John Broun
> knyght Citizen while he lyved and Alderman of London", so clearly this has
> been seriously botched in the indexing.

FWIW, I reported this, so hopefully it gets fixed.

taf

[Brian Hessick]

Found it, thanks.

[Chris Hampson]

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 7:04:23 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:

>
> Either its one thing or the or the other - I was disappointed over how few search matches I was getting for John Hosyer or Thomas Belwode. That is not the problem with John Browne.
>
> taf

I was a little surprised by the lack of entries for Hosyer. I assumed that a Merchant of the Staple would have had a higher profile in the Company. So, I did a search on the names of the first eight apprentices listed from the same year as John; none returned anything more than an entry on that list. Then I read the book description, it only covers up to 1464. I'm glad I didn't waste my time searching more from that list.

[Brian Hessick]

Cleaned up the will of Anne Browne (née Belwood).


PROB 11/14/71

In the name of God be it Amen, the 12th day of the month of January in the year of our Lord 1503, I, Anne BROWNE widow, late wife of Sir John BROWNE knight, citizen while he lived and alderman of London, being whole of mind and in good memory, laud and praising be unto Almighty God, make and ordain this my present testament in manner and form following, that is to say, first I bequeath and recommend my soul unto Almighty God, my maker, and to the most glorious Virgin (his mother) our Lady St. Mary, and to all the holy company of saints in heaven; and my body to be buried in the parish church of St. Mary Magdalen of London, there where the body of my said dear and well beloved husband lies buried. And after my body so buried, then I will that all such debts as I owe to any person or persons of right or of conscience be well and truly paid. Item: I bequeath to the high altar of the said church of St. Mary Magdalen for tithes and obligations forgotten or withholden, if any be as I know none, so to be in discharge of my soul, 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath for my burial to be had in the said church in the place aforesaid, 10s. Item: I will that my execs here underwritten do provide and ordain for me 20 honest torches to convey my body unto Earth, and I will that my body be buried honestly without any pomp or pride of the world. Item: I will that 20 poor householders that be no common beggars bear the said 20 torches, and I bequeath to every of them for his labor in that behalf and to pray specially for my soul and for the soul of my said late husband, 12p. Item: I bequeath 10 marks to be dealt among poor people the day next after my decease, every poor body to have thereof 1p as long as it will extend thereto. Item: I bequeath to either of the prison houses of Newgate and Ludgate of London, 10s to be distributed among the poor prisoners being detained in the said prison houses in bread and other things as by my said execs shall be thought most needful and beneficial for the same prisoners as shortly as it may be goodly done after my decease. Item: I bequeath to the 4 poor lazar houses next about London towards the comforting of the sick folks of the same lazar houses, 26s 8p, that is to say, to every house thereof 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath to the hospital or spital house called St. Bartholomew’s Spital without Newgate of London, toward the refreshing and amending of the bedding and lodging for poor folks there ordained, 20s. Item: I bequeath to either of the prison houses of the King’s Bench and Marshalsea in Southwark, in like manner as is above bequeathed, to either of the prison houses of Newgate and Ludgate, 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath to the four houses of friars in London, that to wit, the Grey friars, the Black friars, the Augustine friars, and the Crutched friars, £4, that is to say, to each house thereof 20s, praying them of their charity to say for me in every of their said houses five masses in the honor of the five wounds that my savior Christ Jesus suffered for me and all mankind, and to pray specially for my soul and the soul of my late husband in all the said masses. Item: I bequeath to the House of the Minoress without Aldgate of London to the extent to have a dirge and a mass there said for my soul, 10s. Item: I bequeath to the works of the body of the parish church of Belton in the county of Lincolnshire wherein I was Christened to the intent that I may be the more specially prayed for therein, 40s. Item: I bequeath to the works of the body of the parish church of St. Lawrence at Morden in the county of Surrey, 13s 4p. Item: I bequeath to the ancre* beside All Hallows church at London Wall to pray for my soul and the soul of my said late husband, 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath to my cousin Margaret HAYDOK widow, to pray for my soul, 20s. Item: I bequeath to my cousin Dame Agnes HAYDOK nun, to pray for my soul, 10s. Item: I bequeath to my well beloved brother Thomas BELWOOD to pray for my soul and for my said husband’s soul, £3 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath to my cousin Thomas BELWOOD, son of my said brother, now apprentice with John HOSIER mercer, the £10 sterling which my said brother owes me by his obligation the day of the date thereof. Item: I bequeath to Katherine BELWOOD, my same brother's daughter, £40 to pray for my soul, to be delivered unto her the day of her marriage; and to John BELWOOD, her brother, now being with Master Doctor HATTON, 40s; and to his sister being with the same Master Doctor HATTON, other 40s; and to every of the other children of my said brother Thomas BELWOOD which be not here rehearsed, 20s, except Elizabeth LOUNDE, his daughter, unto whom I have delivered already part of such goods as God has lent me. Item: I bequeath to my well beloved sister Isabel BELKNAP with whom I was brought up in my youth, 40s. Item: I bequeath to my nephew Master Doctor HATTON to pray for my soul, a ring of gold of the value 20s. Item: I bequeath to my cousin Dame Jane MALET nun of Ormsby in the county of Lincoln, to pray for my soul, 20s. Item: I bequeath to the said John HOSIER to pray for my soul, a ring of gold of the value of 20s; and to my goddaughter Anne HOSIER, daughter of the same John HOSIER, to pray for my soul, 20s; and to Isabel, her sister, 20s. Item: I bequeath to Elizabeth WATLING, my maiden servant, 5 marks. Item: I bequeath to my servant Richard RIDER to pray for my soul, 40s. Item: I bequeath to Richard BOTOMLES, my servant in my kitchen, to pray for my soul, 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath to John CUTRODE leatherseller, to pray for my soul, 40s. Item: I bequeath to the marriage of 60 poor maidens of good name and of honest conversation after the discretion of my execs, £20, that is to say, to every of them 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath to Sir Henry, my chaplain, to pray for my soul, 10 marks. Item: I bequeath to Iden RAYNOLD, late my servant, to pray for my soul, 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath to my cousin George a WERK to pray for my soul, 5 marks. Item: I bequeath to my cousin John WEST to pray for my soul, a ring of gold of the value of 20s; and to Elizabeth, his wife, another ring of the same value. Item: I bequeath to Michael ENGLISH mercer, a ring of gold of the value of 26s 8p; and to Margaret, his wife, late the wife of my son Thomas BROWNE, another ring of the same value. Item: I bequeath to John WEST the younger, William WEST, and Bridget WEST, 20s, that is to say, to every of them 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath to John THOMSON, late my husband’s servant, to pray for my soul, 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath to Robert MORES, late my servant, to pray for my soul, 20s. Item: I bequeath to Erasmus FORD and Humphrey HILL to pray for my soul, 20s, that is to say, to either of them 10s; and to Richard BAKER, 6s 8p. Item: I bequeath to Nicholas LEVESON, 20s. Item: I bequeath to Alice, my keeper, to pray for my soul, 6s 8p; and to Margaret, her daughter, 3s 4p. Item: I bequeath to George NEVILLE mercer, to pray for my soul, 20s. Item: I bequeath to Thomas ELYS to pray for my soul, 20s. Item: I will that my execs hereunder written do provide and ordain a virtuous and a well-disposed priest to sing his mass and to say his other divine service in the said parish church of St. Mary Magdalen and to pray specially for my soul and for the soul of my said dear and well beloved husband during all the time which shall happen to be for to come the day of my decease of the time of 8 years, contained in the testament and last will of my said husband, and for such chaplain so to be found and by the space of 4 years next after the end of the same 8 years; and I will that the same priest have yearly for his salary during the said time, £6 8s 4p, and that the said Sir Henry, my chaplain, be preferred unto the said service before any other. Item: I bequeath to Master Richard BAKER, late my chaplain, to pray for my soul, 20s. Item: I bequeath to Jane BELTOFT, servant with the said Michael ENGLISH, towards her marriage and to pray for my soul, 40s. Item: I release and pardon unto Thomas BUTLER 26s 8p, which he owes me the day of the date hereof. Item: I bequeath to John, the child of my kitchen, to his preferment to a good master, if he will be bound apprentice, 20s. Item: I bequeath to William LYNDESEY to pray for my soul, 6s 8p. Item: I will that my son and exec here underwritten pay and deliver unto my bedwoman mother RANDOLF, 6p weekly on the Saturday from the day of my decease forward during the life of the same mother RANDOLF. Item: I bequeath to the nurses of John BROWNE and George BROWNE, 40s, that is to wit, to either of them 20s. Item: I will that my son William BROWNE give and find with my goods unto my said servants Richard RIDER and Elizabeth WATLING, meat, drink, and lodging during a whole year next after my decease, if they be not promoted to some honest service within the same year. Item: I bequeath to the said William BROWNE, my son, and his children to the performance of their marriages and to pray for my soul £100; and to my daughter Alice, wife of the said William (my son), to pray for my soul, £10, praying her to be [a] loving mother unto her children and to all the children of my said son, her husband. And over that, I bequeath unto my cousin Juliann BROWNE, daughter unto my said son William BROWNE, £10, and girdle, and a pair of beds. Item: I bequeath unto my cousin William BROWNE alderman, to the intent that it may please him to be overseer of this my present testament and to pray for my soul, a ring of gold of the value of 40s; and I bequeath to every of the three daughters of the same William BROWNE alderman, a girdle of my wearing, after the discretion of my execs. The residue of all my goods, chattels, and debts whatsoever they be, after my debts paid, my funeral expenses fully done, and the legacies comprised in this my present testament preformed, I will it be divided into two equal portions; and I will that one of the first equal portion thereof be disposed and distributed for me in the amending of noyows* highways, to the marriage of poor and well disposed maidens, and in other deeds of charity such as my said exec shall think best to please Almighty God to most profit unto my soul and the soul of my said dear and well beloved husband; and that other equal portion thereof, I give and bequeath wholly unto my said son William BROWNE, he to do therewith his own free will and to pray for my soul, the which William BROWNE, my son, I make and ordain my sole exec of this my present testament. And his overseer of the same, I make and ordain the said William BROWNE alderman. In witness whereof to this my present testament I have set my seal yeven the day and year above rehearsed. Item: I bequeath unto every of the said Katherine BELWOOD, Elizabeth WATLING, and Richard RIDER, my servants, a featherbed, a bolster, a coverlet, a pair of blankets, and two pair of sheets of mine. Item: I bequeath unto Ellen BROWNE, late my servant, 20s.

The above written testament was proved before the Lord at Lambeth the 4th day of March Anno Domini 1503, by the oath of William BROWNE alderman of London, John HOSIER, John WEST, and Morgan WILLIAMS, and probated and entered, and administration was granted of all the goods and debts of the said deceased to William BROWNE appointed exec in the same testament, to well and faithfully admin the same, and to exhibit a true and faithful inventory before the feast of the Annunciation of St. Mary next to come and to also render a plain and true account, sworn on the Holy Gospels to the same.




*ancre - a religious recluse
*noyows - harmful, dangerous

[taf]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 1:29:57 PM UTC-7, Brian Hessick wrote:

A transcript of the will of Thomas Browne, son of John and Anne, was posted here many years ago:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2003-10/1067436249


Just as a reminder since we are talking about these families again (and to correct/clarify a few uncertain reads):

Thomas Browne 'the yonger' Citizen and mercer of London

To be buried in the tomb of his honourable fader Sir John Browne knight, in the church of St. Mary Magdalene. Legacies to pray for his soul include 'to my aunte Hatton'; to William Browne Alderman; to cousyn John Hosier; to George Nevell, mercer (he keeps appearing in the Browne wills); to cousin Elizabeth Browne, widow, late the wife of James Browne, mercer; to beloved mother Dame Anne Browne; to brother William Browne; to his (unnamed) sister-in-law the wife of said William Browne; to his said brother's children; to Henry a Worley, goldsmith and to his sister my wife; to my (unnamed) mother-in-law; to my father-in-law Thomas Woode, Alderman; to my wife Margaret Browne; to apprentice Resemus Forde (i.e. the Erasmus Ford appearing in other family wills); and servants, Umphrey and Jane Beltoft, an apparent Lincs connection; mother's servant Ric Rider; Henry Beaw, mother's chaplain; Elizabeth Watlyng mothers maid; Elizabeth Fowler; John the child in my mother's (kitchen ?). Names his mother and brother executors, and father-in-law overseer. Probated 13 March 1500[/1].

Note that Henry Worley married Jelyan Woode, named in the will of her father Thomas along with her sister Margaret, wife of Mighael Englishe, and hence his wife was sister-in-law of Thomas Browne.

(This would be PROB 11/12/271)

taf

[Chris Hampson]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 4:05:05 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:
>
> Note that Henry Worley married Jelyan Woode, named in the will of her father Thomas along with her sister Margaret, wife of Mighael Englishe, and hence his wife was sister-in-law of Thomas Browne.
>

I've seen a Worley connection before while looking at the Jenyn family, hopefully I can find it again.

[taf]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 4:33:20 PM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:

> I've seen a Worley connection before while looking at the Jenyn family,
> hopefully I can find it again.

I don't recall seeing him before. He was an Alderman, and died testate (PROB 11/21/508, as Warley) but the only familiar name in his will is Edmunde Mundy, but he was a servant so the shared surname may be coincidental and not an indication of kinship with the Mayor.

taf

[taf]

Not directly relevant, but I found perhaps the worst, or at least most ridiculous, Ancestry misindexing of a PCC will, that of Margaret Whitington, which somehow got indexed as Margaret Shytyngboy.

taf

[Brian Hessick]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 8:21:22 PM UTC-4, taf wrote:
> Not directly relevant, but I found perhaps the worst, or at least most ridiculous, Ancestry misindexing of a PCC will, that of Margaret Whitington, which somehow got indexed as Margaret Shytyngboy.
>
> taf

Margaret Shytyngboy?... something doesn't smell right.

[Brian Hessick]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:05:05 PM UTC-4, taf wrote:
>
>
> Thomas Browne 'the yonger' Citizen and mercer of London

> to cousin Elizabeth Browne, widow, late the wife of James Browne, mercer;

I am of the opinion that James Browne, mercer, and Elizabeth, widow, were the parents of William Browne (1508); though he mentions his "aunt Hatton", Elizabeth Browne was not of blood relation.

[taf]

Now you have lost me in linking Aunt Hatton and Elizabeth Browne. I thought 'aunt Hatton' was Isabel Belwood Hatton Belknap, who would have been the testator's aunt.

taf

[Chris Hampson]

It was actually Rauf Worsley of Chester, who married a woman who was probably a niece of Nicholas Jenyn.

[Chris Hampson]

Do we call that a crap job?

[taf]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 6:03:54 PM UTC-7, Brian Hessick wrote:

> I am of the opinion that James Browne, mercer, and Elizabeth, widow,
> were the parents of William Browne (1508);

Back in 2003 when the will was first published, it was suggested that since John Browne was also known as John a Werke, that this James Browne might be the James a Werke named in John's will. This is not inconsistent with your suggestion.

James Browne was still living in 1492, when the will of Joan Cantelowe, the widow of several mercers, left a legacy to Elizabeth Brown, wife of James Browne, mercer. He also appears in a Chancery suit against John Graye over land in Newcastell, York, dated 1493-1500.

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/ChP/C1no187/IMG_0410.htm

taf

[Brian Hessick]

Correct,
From the perspective of Thomas Browne (at the time of writing his will): Isabel Hatton (née Belwood) is his aunt, being the natural sister of Anne Browne (née Belwood).

But it is plausible that his uncle was James Browne, mercer. If so, Elizabeth, the widow of James Browne, would not be a blood relative to Thomas, and thus described as "cousin". It's a possible scenario, not to be taken as fact.

[taf]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:15:44 PM UTC-7, Brian Hessick wrote:

> Correct,
> From the perspective of Thomas Browne (at the time of writing his will):
> Isabel Hatton (née Belwood) is his aunt, being the natural sister of Anne
> Browne (née Belwood).

What is a little off is that at the time she was surnamed Belknap, but I can see how, being 'aunt Hatton' while Thomas was growing up, he may have still thought of her as such after her remarriage, particularly when it didn't seem to last that long and was childless, while she remained associated with the Hatton name via her son. Dr. Richard.

taf

[taf]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:20:13 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:

> What is a little off is that at the time she was surnamed Belknap, but
> I can see how, being 'aunt Hatton' while Thomas was growing up, he may
> have still thought of her as such after her remarriage, particularly
> when it didn't seem to last that long and was childless, while she
> remained associated with the Hatton name via her son. Dr. Richard.

Following up on this, Nicholas Hatton's will was probated in 1480 (as per the Sutton silkwomen article). It was in 1484 that William Belknap and Isabel Belknap, formerly Isabel Hatton, were involved in two suits.

There aren't that many William Belknaps at this time. In fact, I have only found one (other candidates would be welcome). This is the eventual heir to Hamon Belknap and Joan Boteler, who died in May 1484, leaving his brother Henry as sole heir. If this is Isabel's husband, then the marriage lasted less than a half-decade. Note: I have seen this ipm referred to in published sources, but only in so far as to give the date and that Henry was heir - has anyone seen the entire inquisition? How about a will? I don't find one at PCC.

taf

[taf]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:14:35 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:
>
> Back in 2003 when the will was first published, it was suggested that
> since John Browne was also known as John a Werke, that this James Browne
> might be the James a Werke named in John's will. This is not inconsistent
> with your suggestion.
>

FWIW, I looked at the will of George Werke (a cleric named in several family wills). It names William Browne, but beyond that is unhelpful.

taf

[Chris Hampson]

The IPM is at C 141/6/16. Someone posted this on Ancestry (the telefonica.net URL doesn't work), and I haven't found access to the Sussex Record Society issue:
William, esq. (d.1484 SP; IPM nº 97, SSX Rec. Soc. XI) - On 13 Dec.1436 the escheator of Kent had mandate to make partition into 3 equal parts in presence of William, Henry and Philip Bealknap, of 10 acres of land in Orpington and to give seising to William of his purparty of the land of William Haute in gavelkind, as John Belknap had held at his death. Henry and Philip, William's brothers, were to be his next heirs. Further the King has taken the homage of William for two thirds of the manor of Seyntling, held in chief as of the Honour of Peverel (CCR).

William is mentioned in the early Chancery Proceedings. He lived at St. Mary of Cray in Kent but also held Knelle manor. In 1415 William with others had grants from Thomas Stonore of several lands and tenements in Buckinghamshire (705:349/12946/494334). In 1446 William quitclaimed with warranty to John, cardinal of St. Balbina and archbishop of York, the manor of Pyrye, and all the manors, lands, rents etc. in Kent which the cardinal now occupied. On 30 June the same year William Belknap, esq., son and heir of Hamon Belknap and Joan his wife, quitclaimed to Thomas Grene the manor called Lebury in Elmedon, Chishull, Wendoun, Arkesden and Creshale in Essex, which were of Hamon and afterwards of Joan (CCR). The following year sees him as Sheriff of Surrey and Sussex (The Worthies by Fuller).

In 1470 land of William Belknap esq. is mentioned in connection with Sir John Norbury as lying next to the tenement late of Philip atte Well', called Pakenhame, in Kent (KAC.). On 10 Feb.1474 John Norbury, kt., son of Henry Norbury, son of Elizabeth, sister of Ralph Botiler of Sudely, and William Belknap, esq., son of Joan Botiler sister of Ralph, had licence to enter into all castles, manors, lordships, lands, rent etc.in England, late of Ralph and Alesia his wife, since the death of Alesia (CPR). In 1477 William and Sir John Norbury were allowed to enter into possession of the lands formerly of Ralph Boteler of Sudeley, namely the manor of Belbroughton or Fairfield (VCH Worcestershire). After the division of the lands William received Fairfield manor entirely. Elizabeth, da. of Sir John Norbury, had married Ralph Boteler Lord Sudeley, and after his death Sir John Montgomery. - In 1484 William Belknap, Thomas Echingham, William Radmild, Thomas Oxenbrigge, Henry Fynch a.o. were commissioners of array in Sussex (CPR).

William died without issue and seems to have held property in the counties of Kent, Sussex, Worcs, Warws (TNA C 141/6/16). As per C/IPM Willelmus Belknap, armiger, held the following properties: Seyntling manor and land in Pawlyns Cray in Kent, Knell manor in Sussex. Land and tenements in Sheriff Lench and Churchlench, members of Elmeley castle, rent in Wyche in Worcestershire. The manors of Chepingdorset, Greve, Wellesbourne, Whightchurch manors and Kyngswode manor with the advowsom of the church, a member of Warwick castle, in Warwickshire. (http://www.telefonica.net/web2/kenello/belknap.htm)

[Chris Hampson]

On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 10:09:22 AM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:

> Someone posted this on Ancestry (the telefonica.net URL doesn't work), and I haven't found access to the Sussex Record Society issue:

It's actually an extract from the telefonica page which can be seen here https://web.archive.org/web/20121230181435/http://www.telefonica.net/web2/kenello/belknap.htm
No indication of a wife anywhere.

[taf]

Now hosted here:
http://knightlyfamilies.com/belknap.htm

Sussex Rec Soc vol. XI is here, but it is an Episcopal Register and as far as I can tell does not name William Belknap at all:

https://archive.org/details/sussexrecords11deeduoft

Intended was volume XIV, but alas, this is a reference to the ipm of Henry Belknap, William's heir, and not that of William himself.

https://archive.org/stream/publications14suss#page/n73/mode/2up

taf

[taf]

I note that Stow provides a note that a 1533 ecclesiastical visitation reports the burial of William Belknap, esquire, one of the heirs of Rafe Butler, Lord Sudeley, at New Abbey, Eastsmith field (by Tower Hill), London.

taf

[taf]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:16:35 AM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:

> I was a little surprised by the lack of entries for Hosyer. . . . Then I

> read the book description, it only covers up to 1464.

He seems not to have taken any apprentices. I only find the entry for his freedom in the ROLLCO database.

http://www.londonroll.org/search

I do not find John Browne at all. He must have been a mercer (small 'm'), not a Mercer (big 'M').

taf

[taf]

On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 5:16:58 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:

> He seems not to have taken any apprentices. I only find the entry for
> his freedom in the ROLLCO database.
>
> http://www.londonroll.org/search
>
> I do not find John Browne at all. He must have been a mercer (small 'm'),
> not a Mercer (big 'M').

Sorry, I meant to say James Browne.

What I did find - John West, named in several family wills, was originally an apprentice of John Browne.

Browne, curiously, seems to have taken an unusual 20 years between when he was admitted as an apprentice (1456) and when he became freeman in the company (1476).

taf

[taf]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:14:35 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:

> Back in 2003 when the will was first published, it was suggested that since
> John Browne was also known as John a Werke, that this James Browne might be
> the James a Werke named in John's will. This is not inconsistent with your
> suggestion.
>
> James Browne was still living in 1492, when the will of Joan Cantelowe, the
> widow of several mercers, left a legacy to Elizabeth Brown, wife of James
> Browne, mercer. He also appears in a Chancery suit against John Graye over
> land in Newcastell, York, dated 1493-1500.

While James Browne is absent from the Mercer's records, James a Warke does appear. He had been apprentice of John Broun when admitted to freedom, 1480. He then has apprentices or armitted freeman through 1506. Thus he cannot be the James Browne who was dead by 1500.

William Brown (1508) is likely the one admitted freeman in 1486, having been apprentice of John Brown

William Brown (1514) was admitted 1499, based on patrimony.

There was also a William Brown who became freeman in 1480, by redemption. He would have to be viewed as another candidate father of William (1508), but the surname is just too common in the records - there was also a Hugh Broun/Brown.

taf

[Chris Hampson]

On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 5:16:58 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:

> On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:16:35 AM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:
>
> > I was a little surprised by the lack of entries for Hosyer. . . . Then I
> > read the book description, it only covers up to 1464.
>
> He seems not to have taken any apprentices. I only find the entry for his freedom in the ROLLCO database.
>
> http://www.londonroll.org/search
>

So we know that set of records is incomplete; remember that Thomas Belwood was his apprentice at the time Anne Browne made her will.

[Chris Hampson]

On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 5:41:14 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:14:35 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:
>
> > Back in 2003 when the will was first published, it was suggested that since
> > John Browne was also known as John a Werke, that this James Browne might be
> > the James a Werke named in John's will. This is not inconsistent with your
> > suggestion.

What do you make of the variations 'a Werke' and 'Werke'; for instance in the transcription of the will of Sir John Broune you pointed us to there are cousins Thomas a Werke and Raufe a Were, but also Master George Werke and James Werke.

[Brian Hessick]

It is my understanding that when a surname is derived from a place, it will at times have ascribed an "á", much like in the debate regarding Thomas á Becket vs Thomas Becket with the "a" meaning "from" or "of" in Latin (Gilbert Becket, his father, was from Thierville nigh Bec Abbey). In this case, the family was from Wark, Northumberland.

[taf]

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 8:08:55 AM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:

> What do you make of the variations 'a Werke' and 'Werke'; for instance in
> the transcription of the will of Sir John Broune you pointed us to there
> are cousins Thomas a Werke and Raufe a Were, but also Master George Werke
> and James Werke.

Just typical variation - no significance. I note that the ROLLCO database has James as both Warke and Awarke (capitalization uncertain due to database field entry).

taf

[taf]

The data is a little flaky - that or I just haven't hit on the right spelling variation (Mighell English appears as Inglyshe) or the right parameters. John Hosier appears as master of two former apprentices admitted as freemen, but they did not turn up when I looked for apprenticeships.

Regarding Thomas Belwood, I don't know enough about the practices of the Mercers' Company. Was there some fee associated with registering one's apprentices? Could one have apprentices 'off-the-books'?

As an example of iffy data, George Haidok has two entries, one as a new apprentice and one as a freeman under the same master, both in 1498, so either he learned the trade really quickly, there was some sort of delay in registering his apprenticeship, or one of these has been misentered. As an aside, he is perhaps akin to the Haydocks named in the Browne wills, on whom I have been unable to find anything.

taf

[Adrian]

> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Seems reasonable to me. Perhaps at least one of the following was of the
same family:-

1445 April 12.

Westminster.

To John Ogill, Thomas Elwyke and *Robert de Warke*. Order to pay to
*Thomas**Broun*esquire the 12l. a year which they are bound to render to
the king during a term of seven years from the feast of St. Martin in
winter 20 Henry VI for the keeping of the fisheries of the waters of
Hoxstell, Seesyde, Cadman and Stret in the *river Twede*, by name of the
fishery of the river Twede, and to pay him the arrears for Michaelmas
and Easter terms last; as by letters patent of 18 April 22 Henry VI [ac:
1444] the king granted him that yearly sum during the said term by their
hands or the hands of other the occupiers of the said office.

From: 'Close Rolls, Henry VI: March-May 1445', Calendar of Close Rolls,
Henry VI: volume 4: 1441-1447 (1937), pp. 253-254.

URL:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=110094&strquery=BrounDate
accessed: 07 May 2009.


Adrian

[Chris Hampson]

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 8:49:36 PM UTC-8, taf wrote:

> I haven't had time to give it a full read right now, but Hosyer and Browne, along with John West, appear as plaintiffs in a Chancery suit, in which the defendants are James Missenden and Agnes, formerly wife of John Malet. She is named as cousin in the will of Anne (Belwood) Browne, William's mother. John Malet was named in a Belwood transaction. Roger Beltoft, holding land to the use of Thomas Belwood the elder, enfeoffed a group of men including John Malet to hold to the use of Thomas Belwood the younger. The Hosyer & Browne suit also names a Thomas 'Belwod', Richard Hatton, clerk, another known kinsman, and a Sheffield, who was a cousin of the Belwoods.
>
There was also a cousin Dame Jane Malet nun of Ormsby Lincs in the will of Anne Browne.

[taf]

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 10:29:48 AM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:
> On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 8:49:36 PM UTC-8, taf wrote:
>
> > I haven't had time to give it a full read right now, but Hosyer and
> > Browne, along with John West, appear as plaintiffs in a Chancery suit,
> > in which the defendants are James Missenden and Agnes, formerly wife
> > of John Malet. She is named as cousin in the will of Anne (Belwood)
> > Browne, William's mother.

I confused two different people here - Agnes is not named in Anne's will.

> There was also a cousin Dame Jane Malet nun of Ormsby Lincs in the will
> of Anne Browne.

But as you say, Jane is.

There are several records of an action in which John Hosyer the elder, mercer and citizen of London sues John Malet of Irby upon Humber for a L400 debt. (that is a pretty big sum at that time) They date from 1504-5. The notes say:

Inquisition and return: Date to be returned: 06/04/1505 Attached is the inquisition made at Irby on 08/12/1504 before Lionel Percy, Sheriff. On the day of the recognisance John Malet was seised in demesne of: divers lands and tenements in Irby of an annual value of £12 7s. 8d.; divers lands and tenements in Humberston [Bradley Wapentake, Lincs.], to the value of 18s.; and a rent of 11s. in Humberston; also, rents of 5s. from divers lands and tenements in ...; he had no goods or chattels in the county.

Inquisition and return: Date to be returned: 8.7.1505 The Sheriff replied to a previous writ that on the day of the recognisance John Malet was seized of lands and tenements in Irby and Humberston, and of a rent of 11s in Humberston [Bradley Wapentake], and rents of 5s. from divers lands and tenements in Rothwell [Haverstoe Wapentake, Lincs] worth altogether £14 20d. a year.

Endorsement: Reply on behalf of William Ascue, Sheriff, by his deputy, Robert Bathyn, that on 7.7.1505 he delivered to John Hosyer the lands and tenements specified in the writ.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9554118
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9698365
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9537888

I find an online reference to Katherine, daughter of John Mallet of Irby, marrying Robert Sampson of Binfield, citing CP 8:230. The same relationship is found in a mss that combines the visitation of Berkshire, 1566, with various other pedigree material from Philipott and Vincent.

https://books.google.com/books?id=uwMVAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA207

where Katherine is said to be da: to John Mallett of Ereby in Lincoln Esquire, son to Wm Mallett of Ereby in Linc:, Esqr. Her mother is given as Anne, da: to Booth of Chester. It is unclear to me whether this is the same John as involved with Hosyer.

James Missenden, who married John's widow, is probably the James of Helyng or Heelyng, Magna Limber in Ketilby next Brygge, Linc, gent, who appears on a pardon roll 1509/10.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015034603988;view=1up;seq=274

James Mussenden of Great Lymber is given by the 1592 visitation of Lincs as son of John Mussenden of Healing and Anne Topcliff, with two wives, neither named.

https://books.google.com/books?id=l3Y4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA270

However, apparently John's will names no such son, and it has been suggested "he came of a bastard line".
https://books.google.com/books?id=zuhMAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA147
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000060076120;view=1up;seq=343
(In the associated document to which this latter note is attached, he is listed among a group of "evil-disposed riottous persons, [who] riottously rose upp all to gidir at the seid sessions and sware by the blode of god that the seid Sir William askue shulde rede no bill ther, and then and ther openly in the seid Sessions gave many evill and obprobryous wordes vnto the seid Sir William Askue."

As James Myssenden, he died testate (prob. 1529) but no familiar names are found in the will.

https://books.google.com/books?id=zuhMAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA147

taf

[Chris Hampson]

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 1:06:31 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:

> I just noticed that 'John West, mercer, and my cousin, his wife,' are named in William Browne's will, and West and Hosyer are among those named overseers.
>
Did you notice that John West desired to be buried near to where Sir John Browne was buried. On my admittedly limited experience that seems rather unusual.

[Chris Hampson]

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 2:56:26 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:

> The will of John West, citizen and mercer, <snip>. He later leaves his "yards of cloth" to "Master Hosyer, my cosyn Pyke and his wyfe, Master Mundy and his wyfe [i.e. Julian Browne, daughter of William], Robert Palmer and his wyfe, ..."

I'm a bit curious about the naming conventions here - Master Hosyer and Master Mundy, but cosyn Pyke. Hosyer was a mercer, but Mundy and Pyke (assuming this was John Pyke who married Isabel Hosyer) were goldsmiths. Mundy and Pyke were of the same generation, Hosyer was one generation older. Hosyer and Mundy married into the Browne orbit; Pyke, as far as we know, was one step removed. Am I reading too much into this?

[Chris Hampson]

Not really relevant to the current enquiry but possibly interesting background to the Browne/Belwode relationship - from 1370 "Property: 2 selions of land lying scattered in the fields of Haxey; one of which lies in a place called Pat[ri]kbuskes, between the land of John son of Sampson on one side and the land of John de Belwod on the other; the other selion lies at Midfeld between the land of John Cagill on one side and the land of Thomas Broune on the other." http://www.lincstothepast.com/Gift-and-confirmation/556850.record?pt=T
Haxey is just to the south of Belton, Beltoft and Butterwick, places associated with the families discussed. I haven't found a Midfeld that makes sense (too many football connotations!).

[taf]

I think you might be reading too much into it. Hosyer was an old and respected colleague in the Mercers' Company, and Mundy was an Alderman. Both of them may then merit Master based on status alone. Also, the order perhaps is relevant: he may be thinking of them as a single unit, (Master Hosyer, Hosyer's son-in-law and daughter), and then moves on to the next family unit, (Master Mundy and wife).

taf

[taf]

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 6:49:13 PM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:
> Not really relevant to the current enquiry but possibly interesting
> background to the Browne/Belwode relationship - from 1370 "Property: 2

> selions of land lying scattered in the fields of Haxey; . . . John de
> Belwod on the other . . . and the land of Thomas Broune on the other."

> Haxey is just to the south of Belton, Beltoft and Butterwick, places
> associated with the families discussed.

There is every reason to suspect a connection between John de Belwod and the later Thomas Belwode/Belwoods of the 15th century, but the name Broun/Brown(e) is common and presumably arose independently at numerous places, so I see no reason to link this Thomas Broune with the Broun als. a Werke family of London Mercers.

taf

[taf]

This doesn't provide much we didn't already know, but C 1/473/7 is a suit between Agnes Belwode, and William Browne, mercer of London. Agnes is acting on behalf of her son Francis Belwode. Francis, while under the age of 21, had joined with Robert Lee, goldsmith, in borrowing money from Browne. Of note for our purposes (though not novel), is in relating Frances' indebtedness, it indicates that, ". . . the seid Browne came unto hy[m] & called hy[m] cosyn . . ." The suit falls within the range 1518 and 1529, and thus this would be William Browne the younger, son of William (1514) and grandson of Anne Belwood, while Frances Belwood was son of Robert and grandson of Thomas Belwood, whom I elsewhere concluded was Anne's brother. Thus Francis and William were second cousins.

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT6/ChP/C1no473/IMG_0009.htm

The suit also mentions the involvement of Stephen Hartfyld, who would seem to be Stephen Hatfield, revealed as step-father of Agnes in another suit, whereby Robert Belwod and Agnes his wife, daughter of John, son of Thomas, son of John Bekerd the elder sued Stephen Hatfeld and Elizabeth his wife, late wife of John Bekerd the younger.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7463096
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/ChP/C1no257/IMG_0037.htm (partly unreadable)

taf

[Chris Hampson]

Some new names for the discussion, maybe just business partners but they might provide some indirect information:

Christopher Pereson, Richard Aunsham, citizen and mercer, of London, Thomas Frowyk, sergeant-at-law, William Broun, citizen and mercer, of London, son of Sir John Broun, knight, late mayor of the city, John Hosyer, citizen and mercer, of London, and Thomas Bartelot, of Heston, husbondman, and John Wodall, and Elizabeth, his wife. Premises in Houndeslowe and Heston. Trin. Anno 14.

John West, John Hosyer, and William Broun, the younger, and John Bollys, and Margaret, his wife. Premises in Hakeney. Mich. Anno 16.

John West, John Hosyer, and William Broun, the younger, and Richard North, and Margaret, his wife. Land in Hakney. Mich. Anno 17.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-london-middx/vol2/pp1-15

[Chris Hampson]

A number of names appear in this recent book https://books.google.com/books?id=ddBhSLy4XaQC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=Richard+Aunsham+mercer&source=bl&ots=m57Bim6cKm&sig=jkpgDB4-moRO36r7QpZKLzgWAN4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj32rLj_-PSAhUUVGMKHdOIBjoQ6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=Richard%20Aunsham%20mercer&f=false, to which we have limited access, in relation to mercers of London who came from Shrewsbury, see p119 on.

I suspect that John Hosyer was related to the Shrewsbury Hosiers, maybe directly, maybe earlier from Hereford.

[taf]

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 6:02:04 PM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:
> Some new names for the discussion, maybe just business partners but they
> might provide some indirect information:

I am a little bit perturbed by this - I searched british-history for Hosyer several days back and these didn't come up, yet I doubt they were just added.

> Christopher Pereson, Richard Aunsham, citizen and mercer, of London, Thomas
> Frowyk, sergeant-at-law, William Broun, citizen and mercer, of London, son
> of Sir John Broun, knight, late mayor of the city, John Hosyer, citizen and
> mercer, of London, and Thomas Bartelot, of Heston, husbondman, and John
> Wodall, and Elizabeth, his wife. Premises in Houndeslowe and Heston. Trin.
> Anno 14.

a couple of names in common with this one, lacking Hosyer:

Richard Amondesham, Thomas Frowyk, sergeant-at-law, Robert Sheffeld, William Broun, the younger, Reginald Asshe, and Thomas Amondesham, and Henry Berners, and Anne, his wife. The manor of West Yellyng, with appurtenances in Yellyng and West Yellyng. Mich. Anno 12.

> John West, John Hosyer, and William Broun, the younger, and John Bollys,
> and Margaret, his wife. Premises in Hakeney. Mich. Anno 16.
>
> John West, John Hosyer, and William Broun, the younger, and Richard North,
> and Margaret, his wife. Land in Hakney. Mich. Anno 17.

No PCC wills for Bollys or North. There was a John Bolles, Alderman, whose will prob 1491, but he obviously can't be the John fl. 1500 here.

taf

[taf]

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 7:28:06 PM UTC-7, Chris Hampson wrote:
> A number of names appear in this recent book https://books.google.com/books?id=ddBhSLy4XaQC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=Richard+Aunsham+mercer&source=bl&ots=m57Bim6cKm&sig=jkpgDB4-moRO36r7QpZKLzgWAN4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj32rLj_-PSAhUUVGMKHdOIBjoQ6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=Richard%20Aunsham%20mercer&f=false, to which we have limited access, in relation to mercers of London who came from Shrewsbury, see p119 on.
>

The same author who misidentified Isabel Belwood as a Browne. She mentions Thomas Frowyk as son of London mercer and twice mayor, Henry Frowyk; Richard Aunsham as Henry's apprentice; and Reginald Ash (in the other Broun fine) as a frequent associate.

taf

[Chris Hampson]

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 7:35:32 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:

> I am a little bit perturbed by this - I searched british-history for Hosyer several days back and these didn't come up, yet I doubt they were just added.
>

I'll put it down to good looks and charm ;)

Another limited access book, but one that shows some high-level involvement in the mercers by John Hosyer https://books.google.com/books?id=lApNUxjgg1gC&pg=PA108&dq=Richard+Aunsham+mercer&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitldy9heTSAhUL1mMKHdoXBJM4ChDoAQgoMAM#v=onepage&q=hosyer&f=false
I haven't looked at other names yet.

I also came across some possible sources of conflict between what I'll tentatively call the Shropshire mercers and others, essentially the Adventurers and the Marchants of the Staple.

[Adrian]

Frowyk (Frowick): Many generations of this family are given in Sylvia L
Thrupp's _The Merchant Class of Medieval London_ (Ann Arbor 1962 edition
pp 342-4)

Adrian

[Chris Hampson]

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 6:16:21 PM UTC-8, Chris Hampson wrote:
> In his will of 1513 Sir William mentions a numbers of "cousins", the first of which is Isabel Pyke and second is the son of his true cousin. Isabel was the daughter of John Hosyer, who was one of the overseers of the will, and wife of John Pyke, goldsmith. Does anyone know of a familial relationship between Sir William and Isabel? Being the daughter of a close friend doesn't seem to warrant being called cousin.
> Chris

And for those that get excited by such things, Isabel's daughter married the third great grandfather of Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough.

[taf]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 4:05:05 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:

I see I made a reversal of pronouns when typing up the account of the will of Thomas Browne.

> Thomas Browne 'the yonger' Citizen and mercer of London
>

> . . . to Henry a Worley, goldsmith and to his sister my wife;

That should have read, "and to my sister his wife" - Henry's wife was sister(-in-law) of Thomas.

taf

[Chris Hampson]

On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 12:54:36 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:

>
> That should have read, "and to my sister his wife" - Henry's wife was sister(-in-law) of Thomas.
>

Ahh, that now makes sense.

[kare...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 10:14:35 PM UTC-4, taf wrote:

> On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 6:03:54 PM UTC-7, Brian Hessick wrote:
>
> > I am of the opinion that James Browne, mercer, and Elizabeth, widow,
> > were the parents of William Browne (1508);
>

> Back in 2003 when the will was first published, it was suggested that since John Browne was also known as John a Werke, that this James Browne might be the James a Werke named in John's will. This is not inconsistent with your suggestion.
>

> James Browne was still living in 1492, when the will of Joan Cantelowe, the widow of several mercers, left a legacy to Elizabeth Brown, wife of James Browne, mercer. He also appears in a Chancery suit against John Graye over land in Newcastell, York, dated 1493-1500.
>

> http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/ChP/C1no187/IMG_0410.htm
>
> taf

Elizabeth, wife of James Werk / James Browne, is Elizabeth Merland, daughter of Hnery Merland. She is somehow related to the Cantelowe's, and appears in the will of Henry Cantelowe as "James White(sic) mercer of London and my cousin Elizabeth his wife. John Browne, son on James and Elizabeth. All of Elizabeth Merland's brothers appear in Henry Cantelowe's will. William Merlond also appears in the will of Geoffrey Cantelowe, son of Thomas Cantelowe, Henry's half brother. Geoffrey Cantelow was a feoffe of Richard Merlond in the following IPM

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/series2-vol3/pp562-586
IPM of Richard Merlond
"that after the death of Elizabeth[his wife] all the said lands &c. should remain to the said Nicholas and the heirs of his body, and in default of such issue to William Merlond, his (the testator’s) brother, and the heirs of his body, and in default of such issue to Elizabeth, his (the testator’s) sister, for life, that after the death of the last-named Elizabeth the premises should be divided between her eldest sons by James Werk, her late husband and Richard Hawkyn, her present husband,"
After the death of James Werk/Brown she married Richard Hawkyns, draper of London, (died abt 1526 and had a daughter "Brudnell" and daughter Ann Hawkyns who married Thomas Franke of Hatfield Broad Oak, Essex (d. abt 1560; Anne Hawkyns Franke predeceased her mother and her husband.
Elizabeth Merlond is the "sister Hawkyns" in George Werk's will, and Nicholas Browne mentioned in the will, is her son.

Elizabeth Merlond Werk Hawkyns died about 1540 and her will calls her first husband James Browne. She left bequests to her son, Nicholas Brown, Clerk; her grandchild Franke, and her nephew Edward Merlond.
The will of her brother, William Merlond (D. abt 1526 includes to bequests to Thomas Frank and my cousin his wife, sister Hawkyns, and cousin Nicholas Brown, clerk.