Revised Listing of the Bastard Children of King John
Douglas Richardson
Please find below a revised listing of the bastard children of King
John. The list has been augmented by many new references,
corrections, and additions since my last posting of this listing. The
new listing includes Philip "Fiz Le Rey" [i.e., Philip the king's
son]) found in a 1263 Sussex fine as a possible bastard child of King
John.
Also, it appears there may be a link between Isabel, wife of Richard
Fitz Ives, and another royal bastard, Eudes Fitz Roy. I've learned
that in 1245, Isabel's son and heir, William Fitz Ives, sued Giles de
Chanceaux regarding property in Cornwall. This is surely the same man
who was granted Eudes Fitz Roy's properties in Essex on his death
without issue in 1242. The Fitz Ives and Chanceaux link deserves
further study.
Comments are invited.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
- - - - - - - - - -
REVISED LISTING OF BASTARD CHILDREN OF KING JOHN OF ENGLAND:
Legitimated child of John of England, by a mistress, Clemence _____:
i. JOAN OF ENGLAND, married LLYWELYN AP IORWERTH, Prince of North
Wales [see WAKE 4].
Illegitimate child of John of England, by a mistress, _____ de
Warenne, daughter of Hamelin, 5th Earl of Surrey, by Isabel, daughter
and heiress of William de Warenne, 3rd Earl of Surrey [see WARENNE 2]:
i. RICHARD FITZ ROY (or DE WARENNE), Knt., Baron of Chilham, Kent,
married ROSE DE DOVER [see ATHOLL 4].
Illegitimate child of John of England, by a mistress, Hawise _____:
i. OLIVER FITZ ROY. He defended Wolvesey Castle for Peter des Roches,
Bishop of Winchester, in 1216. In 1217 he was granted the lands
formerly held by Peter Fitz Herbert to sustain him in the king's
service. In 1218 he arrived with other English knights at Damietta in
the company of Papal legate, Pelayo. He did not return. H.R. Luard,
Chronica Majora 3 (1876): 40-41. C.P.R., 1216-1225 (1901), pp.
42-43,92. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR
119 (1965): 94-102. J.M. Powell, Anatomy of a Crusade (1986), pg.
235. N. Vincent, Peter des Roches (1996), pp. 71,175.
Illegitimate children of John of England, by an unknown mistress (or
mistresses):
i. JOHN FITZ ROY, evidently a clerk, supported by the custodians of
the see of Lincoln in 1201. D.M. Stenton, Great Roll of the Pipe
Michaelmas 1201 (Pipe Roll Soc., n.s., vol. 14) (1936), pp.
xix,192-193. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233.
NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102.
ii. GEOFFREY FITZ ROY. In 1204 he received a loan by the pledge of
William Longespée, Earl of Salisbury, and Peter de Stokes. In 1205 he
led an expedition into Poitou and died the same year. Curia Regis
Rolls 3 (1926): 321 (suit dated 1205: " ... quam diu predictus
Radulfus [de Trublevill] fuerit in servicio nostro in Pictavia cum
Gaufrido filio nostro"). D.M. Stenton, Great Roll of the Pipe
Michaelmas 1204 (Pipe Roll Soc., n.s., vol. 18) (1940), pp.
xxxv-xxxvj,xlj,33,60,87,131. D.M. Stenton, Great Roll of the Pipe
Michaelmas 1205 (Pipe Roll Soc., n.s., vol. 19) (1941), pp.
xviij-xix,19,79-80. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp.
232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102.
iii. HENRY FITZ ROY, Knt., of Waltham, Ashby, Brigsley, Gonerby (in
Hatcliffe), Hawerby, and North Coates, co. Lincoln, and Chilham, Kent.
He was sent as a student to the Prior of Kenilworth in 1207. In 1215
he was granted the lands of Robert Fitz Walter in Cornwall. In 1217
he and Ralph de Raleigh were granted the manor of Waltham, co. Lincoln
formerly held by Alan Fitz Count to sustain them in royal service. In
1231 he was granted all of the land of Henry de Avaugor, a Norman, in
Waltham, co. Lincoln. He married before 1236 EVE DE BLANCHMINSTER (or
WHITCHURCH), widow of William de Champernoun (living 1230), of
Umberleigh (in Atherington) and High Bickington, Devon, and daughter
and heiress of Reynold de Blanchminster (or Whitchurch) (living 1248),
of Shrivenham and Winterbourne (in Chieveley), co. Berks, and Bolney,
co. Oxford, by his 1st wife, Alice, daughter and co-heiress of
Nicholas de Bolney. They had no issue. SIR HENRY FITZ ROY died
shortly before 8 Apr. 1245. His widow, Eve, married (3rd) before 30
June 1252 Giles de Clifford (living 1276). C.Ch.R. 1 (1895): 137
(styled "Henry the king's brother"). J.L. Vivian, Visitations of the
County of Devon (1895), pp. 160. C.P.R., 1216-1225 (1901), pp. 128,
574 ("Henricus filius regis"). C.C.R., 1227-1231 (1902), pg. 51.
C.P.R., 1225-1232 (1903), pp. 311 ("Henricus frater regis"), 357,441.
C.C.R., 1234-1237 (1908), pg. 219 ("Henrico fratri regis"). Book of
Fees 1 (1920): 362 ("Henricus frater regis"), 617 ("Henricus filius
regis"); 2 (1923): 660,675,1021 (instances of "Henricus filius
Regis"). C.P.R., 1232-1247 (1906), pp. 20,296,450. C.C.R., 1237-1242
(1911), pg. 511 ("Henricum filium regis"). VCH Berkshire 3 (19??):
424; 4 (1924): 63,513,533. C.C.R., 1251-1253 (1927), pg. 116. S.
Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. C.P. 12 Pt. 2
(1959): 645 (sub Wilington). Curia Regis Rolls 13 (1959): 138,215,283
("Henricus filius regis John"), 290,364-365,371,514,542; 15 (1972):
83,449 (styled "Henricum filium le Rey"). R.A. Brown, Memoranda Roll
for the Tenth Year of the Reign of King John (1207-8) (Pipe Roll Soc.,
n.s., vol. 31) (1957), pg. 137 (Henry called "our son" [filio nostro]
by King John). NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. B.R. Kemp, Reading Abbey
Cartularies 1 (Camden, 4th ser., vol. 31) (1986): 375. S.D. Church,
Household Knights of King John (1999), pg. 127.
iv. OSBERT GIFFORD, Knt. In 1215 he received the lands of Thomas de
Ardern in Oxfordshire. In 1216 he likewise received Ardern's lands in
Bundes, Norfolk, and elsewhere in Suffolk, Essex, and Sussex, and the
lands of Aumary Despenser, Roger Fitz Nicholas, and Ralph Bluet in
Oxfordshire. SIR OSBERT GIFFORD died in 1248. Ancestor 3 (1902): 227
(his arms: Ermine two bars gules, on a chief gules a leopard or).
Genealogist n.s. 28 (1922): 128-129. S. Painter, Reign of King John
(1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. T.D. Tremlett, Rolls
of Arms Henry III (Harleian Soc. Pub., vols. 113-114) (1967), pg. 47.
v. EUDES (or IVES) FITZ ROY, of Canewdon, Essex. In 1233 he was
granted lands in Aldbury, co. Hertford. He had an exchequer fee of
£20 granted to him in 1237. In the period, c. 1227/41, he witnessed a
charter for his brother, Richard, Earl of Cornwall, to Launceston
Priory in Cornwall. In 1240 he joined Earl Richard on a crusade to
the Holy Land. EUDES FITZ ROY died there testate shortly before 21
Jan. 1241/2. His lands in Essex were granted to Giles de Chanceaux in
1242. No known descendants. G. Oliver, Monasticon Diocesis
Exonienses (1846), pg. 23. C.C.R., 1231-1234 (1905), pg. 210 ("Eudoni
filio regis"). C.P.R., 1232-1247 (1906), pp. 179 ("Eudo the king's
brother"), 270 ("Eudo son of R. the king's brother"), 314 ("Eudo the
king's brother"). C.C.R., 1237-1242 (1911), pp. 73 ("Eudoni fratri
regis"), 386-387 ("Eudonis fratris regis"), 387 ("Ivonis fratris
domini regis"), 532 ("Eudonis fratris nostri"). Cal. Liberate Rolls 1
(1916), pg. 263. N. Denholm-Young, Richard of Cornwall (1947), pp.
41,112. P.L. Hull, Cartulary of Launceston Priory (Devon & Cornwall
Rec. Soc., n.s., vol. 30) (1987) 12 ("Yvo brother of the earl"
[Richard, Earl of Cornwall]).
vi. BARTHOLOMEW FITZ ROY, clerk, papal chaplain, member of the order
of Friars Preachers, living Aug. 1254. Papal Registers: Letters 1
(1893): 281,286,305.
vii. MAUD FITZ ROY, nun, elected Abbess of Barking 5 Aug. 1247; died
shortly before 6 Feb. 1252. Sir William Dugdale, Monasticon
Anglicanum 1 (1817): 437,441 ("Dame Maud la file le Roy John"). VCH
Essex 2 (1907): 120.
Alleged illegitimate child of John of England, by an unknown mistress,
_____:
i. ISABEL FITZ ROY, married RICHARD FITZ IVES, Knt., lord of Degembris
(in Newlyn East), Cornwall. They had two sons, William Fitz Richard,
Knt. (of Degembris and Penhallow [both in Newlyn East], Lanisley (in
Gulival), and Rosneython and Trenoweth-Chammon [both in St. Keverne])
and Richard Fitz Richard (clerk), and one daughter, Isabel (wife of
Belyn Hellegan, Knt.). He gave tithes in Gruguth (in St. Keverne),
Cornwall. SIR RICHARD FITZ IVES allegedly died in 1207. Modern
descendants (not traced). Herald and Genealogist 7 (1873): 229-231
(Isabel styled "filie Regis Joh'is"). Sir John Maclean, Parochial and
Family Hist. of the Deanery of Trigg Minor 1 (1876): 317. J.L.
Vivian, Visitations of Cornwall (1887), pg. 30. G.D. Stawell, A
Quantock Family: The Stawells of Cothelstone and their Descendants
(1910), pp. 44-45. J.H. Rowe, Cornwall Feet of Fines 1 (1914):
17,49,54-55,58-59,91-92,171,438-440. C.R.R. 11 (1955), pg. 473; 12
(1957): 189. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. C.R.R. 18 (1999): 362-363.
Harleian MS. 4031, ff. 76b,81.
Possible illegitimate child of John of England, by an unknown
mistress, _____:
i. PHILIP FITZ ROY (possible child). In 1263 he and his wife, Lavina,
conveyed lands at Bignor, Pebmarsh, and Petworth, Surrey to Henry Fitz
[le] Roy, perhaps their son. L.F. Salzman, Abstract of Feet of Fines
Relating to the County of Sussex (Sussex Rec. Soc., vol. 7) (1908),
pg. 45 ("Ph[illip]um Fiz Le Rey" [i.e., Philip the king's son]) (cf.
W. Hudson, Three Earliest Subsidies for the County of Sussex in the
Years 1296,1327,1332 (Sussex Rec. Soc., vol. 19) (1910), pp. 73,95
(references to "Henr[icus] fyz le Rey" on 1296 Sussex subsidy).
Todd A. Farmerie
> REVISED LISTING OF BASTARD CHILDREN OF KING JOHN OF ENGLAND:
> Illegitimate child of John of England, by a mistress, Hawise _____:
>
> i. OLIVER FITZ ROY. He defended Wolvesey Castle for Peter des Roches,
> Bishop of Winchester, in 1216. In 1217 he was granted the lands
> formerly held by Peter Fitz Herbert to sustain him in the king's
> service. In 1218 he arrived with other English knights at Damietta in
> the company of Papal legate, Pelayo. He did not return. H.R. Luard,
> Chronica Majora 3 (1876): 40-41. C.P.R., 1216-1225 (1901), pp.
> 42-43,92. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR
> 119 (1965): 94-102. J.M. Powell, Anatomy of a Crusade (1986), pg.
> 235. N. Vincent, Peter des Roches (1996), pp. 71,175.
Have you seen Painter's article attempting to identify the family
to which his mother belonged?
taf
Douglas Richardson
No, I haven't. I understand she is alleged to be a Tracy. Do you
have the reference to his article?
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
"Todd A. Farmerie" <farm...@interfold.com> wrote in message news:<3E432592...@interfold.com>...
Todd A. Farmerie
>>family to which his mother belonged?
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> No, I haven't. I understand she is alleged to be a Tracy. Do you
> have the reference to his article?
Unfortunately not. I am disorganized as it is, but since last
spring's thaw sent water pouring onto my notebooks through a hole
in the roof (and everything I had to do to dry them all out), I
can't find anything. I can't even go back and recopy it - I
remember where on the shelf it was, but the library in question
was torn down about 10 years ago, so I doubt the item will still
be there. (IIRC, his solution made her a Dinan, with links to
Fulk Fitz Warine.)
taf
Ivor West
"Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote
> Also, it appears there may be a link between Isabel,
> wife of Richard Fitz Ives, and another royal bastard,
> Eudes Fitz Roy. I've learned that in 1245, Isabel's son
> and heir, William Fitz Ives, sued Giles de Chanceaux
> regarding property in Cornwall. This is surely the same
> man who was granted Eudes Fitz Roy's properties in
> Essex on his death without issue in 1242. The Fitz Ives
> and Chanceaux link deserves further study.
Giles de Chanceaux was probably the son of Andrew de Chanceaux,
Steward of Cornwall, c.1227-1240, a mercenary of Touraine raised up by
King John, and specifically proscribed by clause 50 of Magna Carta, no
less (Andrew, Peter and Gyon de Chanceles). Andrew
witnessed with Ivo, the King's brother.
Mark Page, EHR Feb 2000, says there is more on Andrew de Chanceaux in
N. Vincent, "Peter de Roches: An alien in English Politics, 1205 -
1238", Cambridge 1996, pp.38-41. I haven't read it but perhaps there
may be some indication of a family connection, if any.
Ivor West
John Ravilious
Dear Todd, Douglas, et al.,
Questionable site noted below:
"Todd A. Farmerie" <farm...@interfold.com> wrote in message news:<3E435278...@interfold.com>...
This particular presentation is spread about on the web, and I pass it on
without any alteration (or attestation as to accuracy, either):
from www.mathematical.com
Hawise Fitzwarin (also given as Miss de Warenne)
born abt 1167
father:
*Fulke II Fitzwarin
born abt 1145
died 1198 Battle of Lewes
mother:
*Hawise De Dinan
born about 1147
married bef 1167
siblings:
*Fulke Fitzwarin born Abt 1175 Of Hertfordshire, England
spouse (unmarried):
*John "Lackland" King of England
born 24 Dec 1166 Kings Manor House, Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
died 19 Oct 1216 Newark, Nottinghamshire, England
buried Cathedral, Worcester, Worcestershire, England
children:
*Richard Fitzroy born Abt 1186 Of Chilham Castle, Kent, England died 6 Aug 1270
Oliver Fitzroy born Abt 1187 Of Westminster, Middlesex, England
died Oct 1219 Damietta, On The Nile, Egypt
buried Westminster Abbey, Westminster, Middlesex, England
Geofrey Fitzroy born 1192? Of England died 1205 Rochell, Charente-Maritime, France
Isabel "la Blanche" Fitzroy born <1192 Of England died 1313
John Fitzroy born <1192 Of Lincolnshire, England died Aft 1201
Ivo Fitzroy born <1194 Of Essex, England
Eudo Fitzroy born <1192 Of Essex, England died Bef 1242
While inaccuracies abound in the above (identifiable, e.g. Hawise = "Miss
de Warenne", or otherwise), I pass this on simply as a lead concerning the
alleged parentage of Hawise, whom you are/were discussing.
Good luck, and good hunting to all.
John