Sybil de Mandeville, Le Poer, Bodrugan
Cochoit
Dunnoil’ and 2. Henry de Bodrugan. She was the sister and heir Walter
de Mandeville, and a daughter of Unknown de Mandeville by Alice
Giffard. This Alice Giffard was a sister of Walter Giffard, bishop of
archbishop of York and Godfrey Giffard, bishop of Worcester. Does
anyone know the Mandeville ancestry of Sybil and Walter?
In 1288, Sybil she obtained 1/6 the manor of Lutton, co. Bedford as
inheritance from her brother, Walter de Mandeville. Walter can be
shown as holding the portions of the manors of Eltham, Woolwich and
Mottingham. In the mid-1280’s Walter exchanged these manors for the
1/6 share of Lutton. The moiety of Eltham was obtained by the
Mandevilles in the 11th century, so Walter and Sybil somehow connects
to the ancient line of Mandevilles.
Even though the only known properties of Walter were in Bedford and
Kent, it seems possible that he connects with the Irish branch of
Mandevilles who were tenants of the Earls of Ulster. Sybil’s first
husband, Peter Le Poer, was from Dunhill, co. Waterford, Ireland and
the Le Poer family had extensive properties in Ireland; Henry de
Bodrugan seemed to develop interests in Ireland after his marriage to
Sybil. Lutton passed to Sybil’s son by her first marriage, John Le
Poer, and any other Mandeville properties would also have gone to him.
In 1255 John de Marisco answered for the fee of Woolwich under a Ralph
de Mandeville. It seems possible that Sybil and Walter are the
children of this Ralph de Mandeville. (Anyone know who this Ralph
is?) However, Hal Bradley in his database says their father was
Edmund de Mandeville citing A Survey of the Cathedral Church of
Worcester (London: 1736.), Appendix p. 77. (Anyone know who this
Edmund is?) I cannot find a free copy of this reference online, does
anyone know what this reference says?
Joe
WJho...@aol.com
Google. Can you tell us from where it comes?
Thanks
Will
John
Check VCH Bedfordshire vol. 2 - manor of Luton [sic]....available on-
line but not on Google Books.
Cochoit
Search for “john de vesci” and “luton” to get a number of references
discussing the trade of Luton and Eltham between John de Vesci and
Walter de Mandeville.
The Royal Arsenal has a discussion of the connection between Eltham,
Woolwich and Mottingham, and their subsequent trade to John de Vesci.
It is also the source which mentions Ralph de Mandeville holding
Woolwich in 1255. Unfortunately, it is only available in snippet
view. http://tinyurl.com/43aaxhu
CIPM Vol. 2 p. 413 no. 678 IPM of Walter de Maundevill
Heir Sybil de Maundevile, wife of Henry de Boderigan receiving 1/6
Luton alias Lutton
Their uncle Bishop Godfrey Giffard taking back Alcrynton (Alkerton,
co. Worcester)
Her age is 24 on the feast of St. Michael last (born 29 September
1264)
http://tinyurl.com/4oqax9n
Joe
John P. Ravilious
====================
Dear Joe, Leo, et al.,
It appears Alkerton is actually in Oxfordshire (or at least is so
accounted in the VCH series). The following is the reference to the
Alkerton fee acquired by Walter Giffard, Archbishop of York, whose
heir was his brother Godfrey the bishop of Worcester (perhaps this
detail accounts for the misplacement of Alkerton in the IPM extract?).
' By the mid-13th century the Alkerton ½ fee was held by under-
tenants. In 1242 Hugh son of Henry of Abingdon, a member of a family
closely connected with Abingdon Abbey, was returned as tenant. (fn.
47) In 1247 he sold 1 carucate in Alkerton and 2 yardlands in Balscott
to Master Simon of Walton, who already had property in Balscott; Simon
and his heirs were to hold it for a ½ fee's service and homage, but
Hugh was not to claim relief or custody of the land and heirs. (fn.
48) Simon became Bishop of Norwich in 1258 and before his death in
1265 granted Alkerton to his son Sir John Walton. (fn. 49) The
Walton's main estate was in Walton, a hamlet of Wellesbourn Hastings
(Warws.), which was encumbered with debts contracted to the Jews by a
previous tenant. (fn. 50) In 1271 Walter Giffard, Archbishop of York,
purchased the debts and thus obtained a claim against the Walton's
property, including Alkerton. Sir John was obliged to convey Alkerton
and other property to Giffard, receiving them back as tenant. (fn. 51)
After John's death in 1277 his relict Isabel, Henry le Foun, her
second husband, and John's heir Maud made similar acknowledgments to
the archbishop. (fn. 52) On Giffard's death in 1279 his heir was his
brother Godfrey Giffard, Bishop of Worcester, who claimed custody of
Maud Walton. (fn. 53) He granted Alkerton to Walter de Mandeville (d.
by 1288) with reversion to himself if Mandeville should die without
heirs. (fn. 54) There is no later reference to the Giffard or
Mandeville interest in Alkerton. '[1]
Walter and Godfrey Giffard had a large number of siblings,
including evidently a sister Alice. It might be that the Sibyl de
Mandeville was a daughter of Alice (and namesake of Sibyl de
Cormeilles) but she may also have been the sister of Walter - possibly
husband of Alice. The indication in the VCH text is that Walter died
s.p., so that Sibyl was more likely a sister than daughter. She could
have been the daughter of Walter by a wife other than the alleged
Giffard sister: this would explain the reversion of Alkerton, co. Oxon
to Bishop Godfrey Giffard in 1288.
Cheers,
John
Notes
[1] VCH Oxford 9:44-53. Footnote 54 states:
' Cal. Inq. p.m. ii, p. 414: incorrectly indexed as Offerton in
Hindlip (Worcs.). In 1281 Bishop Robert Burnel, who was granted the
other estates, renounced all claim to Alkerton: Reg. Giffard, 137. '
URL:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=101913
Cochoit
> > Joe
>
> ====================
>
> Dear Joe, Leo, et al.,
>
> It appears Alkerton is actually in Oxfordshire (or at least is so
> accounted in the VCH series). The following is the reference to the
> Alkerton fee acquired by Walter Giffard, Archbishop of York, whose
> heir was his brother Godfrey the bishop of Worcester (perhaps this
> detail accounts for the misplacement of Alkerton in the IPM extract?).
>
You are correct John, the Alkerton manor is in Oxfordshire, I believe
I had Worcester because that is where the inquisition regarding the
complaint regarding Alkerton of Godfrey, Bishop of Worcester was
heard.
>
> Walter and Godfrey Giffard had a large number of siblings,
> including evidently a sister Alice. It might be that the Sibyl de
> Mandeville was a daughter of Alice (and namesake of Sibyl de
> Cormeilles) but she may also have been the sister of Walter - possibly
> husband of Alice. The indication in the VCH text is that Walter died
> s.p., so that Sibyl was more likely a sister than daughter. She could
> have been the daughter of Walter by a wife other than the alleged
> Giffard sister: this would explain the reversion of Alkerton, co. Oxon
> to Bishop Godfrey Giffard in 1288.
>
I am not sure I understand your alternative possible reconstruction
correctly – she is definitely the sister of Walter de Mandeville (she
was named as such in his IPM). If you are saying that she could be
the sister of Walter de Mandeville, but not the daughter Alice
(Giffard) Mandeville – then Sybil would no longer be the niece of
Godfrey Giffard. However, she is named as the niece of Godfrey in his
will as Sybil de Bodaringham, my niece.
Note that this spelling is used in other references to Henry de
Bodrugan. For example, Sybil is named in the will of Queen Eleanor of
Castile which includes a bequest “to Sybil, wife of Henry de
Boderingeham, of the marriage of John le Power, son and heir of Peter
le Power, tenant in chief, her former husband.” Also in the
Justiciary Rolls of Ireland is suit where Sybil’s son ‘John Le Poher
baron of Doneyl’ was found to owe a debt of L200 to ‘Henry de
Bodrugan’ in January 1305; and in May of 1305 the suit was repeated
with the name of ‘Henry de Bodryngham.’ (P. 20, 71 http://tinyurl.com/3vw4f6n
)
Alkerton reverted back to Godfrey because his initial gift of the
manor included a reversion back to Godfrey if Walter de Mandeville
should die without heirs of his body, which of course he did.
Joe
John P. Ravilious
> )
>
> Alkerton reverted back to Godfrey because his initial gift of the
> manor included a reversion back to Godfrey if Walter de Mandeville
> should die without heirs of his body, which of course he did.
>
> Joe
Dear Joe,
Thanks for the details re: Sibyl's identification as niece of the
Archbishop. To which I see also, the age assigned to her in the IPM
would place her in a generation after the Giffard siblings.
There is only the one sibling of the Giffards (leading to the
Frevilles) that I had noted to date with extant descendants. This
Bodrugan connection is most interesting, and your bringing the matter
to the fore is appreciated.
Cheers,
John
Cochoit
John,
I have made no progress on the Mandevilles except to note that John Le
Poer is frequently found with a Thomas de Mandeville and a Richard de
Mandeville, two Irish lords whose ancestry is equally uncertain.
While searching I have come across a number of references to Sybil and
she would appear to have modern descendants through both husbands.
The current Marquess of Waterford is also Baron le Poer from a descent
from a grandson of John Le Poer. I found it interesting that she can
be tracked from Kent to Ireland to Wales back to England to France to
Cornwall.
A quick bio for her goes:
A fatherless teenage maiden from Kent catches the eye of the
matchmaking queen of England while partying at Eltham palace. She is
married to a fatherless Irish lord who is a ward of the queen. She
follows her husband on his military campaigns into rebellious Wales
and their son and heir is born at Caernarvon. After her husband
drowns at sea leaving her a teenage widowed mother, the queen takes
her into the royal court where her son is raised with the future King
Edward II (also born at Caernarvon). She then travels with the King
and Queen on the campaigns into Gascony where she hooks up with a rich
Cornish knight who was called to military service by his king. She
moves to Cornwall to live the good life and on her death an alter is
built to pray for her soul forever.
I am also writing up a long winded bio with full references.
Joe
Cochoit
> A quick bio for her goes:
The long winded version:
Henry de Bodrugan
Born: Between 1262 and 1265
Died: Between 29 October 1308 and 29 January 1309
Sir Henry de Bodrugan of Bodrugan, co. Cornwall was the son of Roger
de Bodrugan and Isolda de Pyn. He was born after 1262 as he was still
a ward of his uncle William de Bodrugan (future archdeacon of
Cornwall) on 22 March 1283, and before 1265 as he was most likely of
age when summoned to military service in Gascony in April 1286. [1,
2] His uncle had purchased his wardship from William de Alnoeto on 19
May 1277. [3] It should be noted that the Register of Walter
Bronescombe calls him son and heir of Philip de Bodrugan; this is
clearly an error and should properly be grandson and heir. [4, 5] This
is the likely source of several errors in print which omit Roger from
the pedigree. [6] He was named as the son of Roger and father of Otto
in a suit concerning the descent of the manor of Restronguet. [7] He
is said to have been knighted in 1289, and this would seem likely as a
result of his service in Gascony. [8] He is the first recorded as
bearing the arms of the Bodrugans ‘Argent, three bendlets gules.’ [9]
Henry married Sybil de Mandeville, the daughter an unknown de
Mandeville and Alice Giffard, and a niece of Walter Giffard, bishop of
archbishop of York and Godfrey Giffard, bishop of Worcester. Alice
(Giffard) Mandeville was apparently the “favorite sister” of Walter
Giffard based on the multiple gifts to her found in his Register.
[10] Bishop Godfrey Giffard named ‘lady Sybil de Bodaringham, my
niece’ in his will of 1302. [11] Sybil was born 29 September 1264 as
she was 24 and more on the Feast of St. Michael last in the November
1288 IPM of her brother. [12] The name of her father remains
uncertain. In the 1288 IPM in Bedford, Sybil was found to be the heir
of her brother Walter de Mandeveille’s 1/6 share of the manor of
Lutton, co. Bedford; Godfrey, bishop of Worcester claimed the manor of
Alerynton (Alkerton), co. Oxford which he said he gave to Walter de
Mandeville with the provision it should revert back to him if Walter
died without heirs of his body. [13] As a clue to the ancestry of
Sybil and Walter, Walter had previously held the portions of the
manors of Eltham, Woolwich and Mottingham, however he exchanged these
for 1/6 of the manor of Luton with John de Vesci. [14, 15] One half
of Eltham was anciently given to the Mandeville family but its exact
descent to Walter de Mandeville is not known. [16] However, in 1255
John de Marisco answered for the fee of Woolwich under Ralph de
Mandeville. [17] It seems a good possibility that Sybil and Walter
are the children of this Ralph de Mandeville. Though at least one web
site makes them the children of was Edmund de Mandeville citing ‘A
Survey of the Cathedral Church of Worcester (London: 1736.).’ [18]
Neither this Ralph nor Edmund have yet been identified in the main
Mandeville family as of yet.
Sybil was a lady of the Queen’s chamber in the retinue of Eleanor of
Castile, but whether she held this position before or after the death
of her first husband is not certain. She perhaps became known to the
queen as her family held one half of Eltham, while the other half was
royal demesne and the site of the royal palace at Eltham. In 1270,
Henry III “kept a public Christmas at his palace of Eltham, being
accompanied by the Queen, and all the great men of the realm.” [19]
Sybil is frequently found in the household records of the Queen
Eleanor beginning in February 1286, though an earlier connection to
the Queen may be indicated by her marriage to Peter Le Poer. [20] The
Le Poers were ‘Barons of Dunnoil’ derived from their chief manor of
Dunhill, co. Waterford, Ireland, and Sybil’s son would hold this
title. [21] In 1274, Queen Eleanor was granted the wardship and
marriage of the heir of John Le Poer. [22] Sybil was subsequently
married to Peter Le Poer and by him had a son John born 29 August 1281
at Caernarvon, Wales (his age of 23 in the 1308 IPM of Henry de
Bodrugan is obviously an error). [23, 24] From John’s proof of age we
also learn that Peter Le Poer drowned at sea on 4 April 1283.
Sybil married Henry de Bodrugan sometime before the IPM of her brother
Walter de Mandville was taken on 6 November 1288. [25] Henry de
Bodrugan was in the expedition to Gascony in 1286 with King Edward,
which was also accompanied by Queen Eleanor and a large number of the
royal household. [26, 27] It is possible that it was while traveling
with the king and queen that the match with Sybil was made. Queen
Eleanor was well known for matchmatching of cousins and women of the
queen’s household to well landed English nobles. [28] It is also
possible that the Bodrugans strong religious connections played a roll
(marrying the niece of two powerful bishops to a major benefactor of
Glasney College and the brother of the archdeacon of Cornwall). The
first child of Sybil and Henry was born 6 January 1290 at Bodrugan,
co. Cornwall. [29] It may be that Sybil remained in the household of
Queen Eleanor for a time after her second marriage as Sybil’s children
were still with the queen’s children in 1289-90. [30] Eleanor died in
November 1290 and her will includes a bequest “to Sybil, wife of Henry
de Boderingeham, of the marriage of John le Power, son and heir of
Peter le Power, tenant in chief, her former husband.” [31]
It seems likely that it is Sybil’s connections to Ireland possibly
through the Mandevilles (important tenants of the earl of Ulster) and
certainly through the Le Poers that Henry de Bodrugan is found with
apparently new Irish interests. On 12 April 1300 he had letters
nominating John Le Fuelere as his attorney in Ireland for two years.
[32] And again on 2 February 1301 similar letters were issued
nominating his brothers John and Peter Bodrugan as his attorneys and
then on 5 April 1301 nominating John Bodrugan and John le Foghelere.
[33] In January 1305, Sybil’s son ‘John Le Poher baron of Doneyl’ was
found to owe a debt of L200 to Henry de Bodrugan which John
acknowledged. The sheriff was commanded to seize the goods of John
and put them up for sale in order to pay the debt. The sheriff took 2
stacks of wheat, two oats, 30 oxen 20 heifers, 60 cows, and 200 sheep;
however, when the goods were offered for sale “no one in the county
dared to buy them.” The sheriff again tried in May 1305 to collect
the debt with a similar result. [34]
Henry de Bodrugan died shortly before 23 January 1309 when a writ of
diem clausit extremum was issued. [35] He was last noted living on 29
October 1308 when Henry presented at St. Martins-by-Looe. [36] His
IPM shows him holding the manors Bodrugan, Pendrym, Trethem, Tretheak,
Treworrick, Tremodret, Trevellion, Tregrehan, Trethew and Lantyan
Parva. The large manor of Restronguet does not appear as it was still
held by his mother who did not die until 1311. He was lord of the
borough of Looe in his manor of Pendrim. In addition to these manors,
his IPM lists 100 messuages, 40 tofts, 12 mills, 6 dovecotes (pigeon
housing), 100 gardens, 60 Cornish acres, 400 acres of meadow, 1000
acres of pasture, 60 acres wood, 1000 acres of heath (open
uncultivated land), and was collecting rent from land in 20 other
manors. [37, 38] He also held the advowsons of Mevagissey, St. Martin-
by-Looe, Duloe and Poundstock.
Sybil was last noted living in the May 1305 dispute with her son John
Le Poer, and had died prior to the IPM of her husband on 23 January
1309. In the Bedford inquisition of Henry de Bodrugan, the 1/6 share
of Lutton (inherited from her brother) was found to belong to John Le
Poer, son of Henry’s wife Sybil which Henry had held by the courtesy
of England. In fact all Mandeville estates would have gone to John Le
Poer and the best chance of determining her ancestry may be to see if
any other Mandeville estates were inherited by the Le Poer’s. Sybil
was buried within the church of Glasney College where an alter was
especially endowed for her. [39]
1. Registers of Walter Bronescombe (A.D. 1257-1280), and Peter Quivil
(A.D 1280-1291), Bishops of Exeter, by Rev. F.C. Hingeston-Randolph
(1889). P. 354 http://tinyurl.com/3hwqh74 Archive.org Copy
2. CPR Edward I, vol. 2 1281-1292 p. 240 http://tinyurl.com/3fm5r46
3. Bodrugans: A study of a Cornish Medieval Knightly Family, by Dr.
James Whetter (1995). P. 78.
4. See ‘Bodrugans: A study of a Cornish Medieval Knightly Family’, by
Dr. James Whetter (1995).
5. Pedigrees of Plea Rolls Bodrugan, by G. Wrottesley. p. 72
http://tinyurl.com/2ecge9d
6. e.g. Deanery of Trigg Minor vol. 1 (1976), by Sir John Maclean. P.
554-555
7. Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls, by G. Wrottesley. P. 72 http://tinyurl.com/2ecge9d
8. Whetter p. 102
9. Some Feudal Coats of Arms from Heraldic Rolls 1298-1418, by Joseph
Foster (1902). http://tinyurl.com/3eoer9n
10. Register of Walter Giffard, lord archbishop of York (A.D.
1266-1279), ed. by William Brown (1904). Surtees Society vol. 109. P.
xiii http://tinyurl.com/3cctfbo
11. Will of Godfrey Giffard, Bishop of Worcester A.D. 1301, by J. M.
Hall. Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological
Society, vol. 20 p. 139-154. Named on page 151. http://tinyurl.com/yljkoox
http://tinyurl.com/3rdm872
12. CIPM Vol. 2 (1-19 Edward I, 1272-1291) p. 413 no. 678 IPM of
Walter de Maundevill http://tinyurl.com/4oqax9n
13. Missing
14. The Royal Arsenal: its background, origin, and subsequent history:
Volume 1, by Oliver Frederick Gillilan Hogg (1963). P. 124-125.
http://tinyurl.com/3tyb6q6
15. BHO: Victoria County History Series. A History of the County of
Bedford: Volume 2 (1908), 'Parishes: Luton' pp. 348-375. http://tinyurl.com/3zyykjk
16. BHO: Old and New London: Volume 6 (1878), 'Eltham, Lee and
Lewisham', pp. 236-248. http://tinyurl.com/4n9kzg6
17. The Royal Arsenal: its background, origin, and subsequent
history: Volume 1, by Oliver Frederick Gillilan Hogg (1963). P.
124-125. http://tinyurl.com/3tyb6q6
18. Hal Bradley web site, citing ‘A Survey of the Cathedral Church of
Worcester (London: 1736.).’ http://tinyurl.com/3htpsx4
19. BHO: The Environs of London: volume 4: Counties of Herts, Essex &
Kent 'Eltham', http://tinyurl.com/3l39orr
20. Court and Household of Eleanor of Castile in 1290, by John Carmi
Parsons (1977). P. 155 http://tinyurl.com/4ycdlym and see a
reprint in http://tinyurl.com/4y5ne3g
21. Knights of Edward I, vol. IV (P-S), ed. by Rev. C. Moor (1931).
Harleian Society Visitation Series, vol. 83. P. 86. http://tinyurl.com/3bus3ov
22. Cal. of Patent Rolls, Edward I vol. 1 (1972-1281) p. 74.
http://tinyurl.com/3tuyupc
23. Calendar of the Justiciary Rolls of Ireland, 23 to 31 Edward I,
ed. by James Mills (1905). P. 452-453 Proof of age of John Le Poer.
http://tinyurl.com/3ec2jyf
24. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Vol. 5 (1-9 Edward II,
1307-1316). P. 64 no. 139, 1308 IPM of Henry Bodrugan. http://tinyurl.com/25zqbdp
25. Cal. of IPM, Vol. 2 (1-19 Edward I, 1272-1291). P. 418 no. 678,
IPM of Walter Maundeville (sister Sybil) http://tinyurl.com/2e4hfc4
26. CPR Edward I, vol. 2 1281-1292 p. 240 http://tinyurl.com/3fm5r46
27. Whetter p. 102
28. Eleanor of Castile: Queen and Society in Thirteenth-Century
England, by John Carmi Parsons (1997). http://tinyurl.com/3fmxfte
29. Cal. of IPM Vol. 5 (1-9 Edward II, 1307-1316). P. 168 no. 285
Otto Bodrugan proof of age http://tinyurl.com/28l32am
30. Eleanor of Castile: Queen and Society in Thirteenth-Century
England, by John Carmi Parsons (1997). P. 251 http://tinyurl.com/3b4sg4x
31. Cal. of Patent Rolls Edward I vol. II (1281-1292) p. 420
http://tinyurl.com/6dc4fvy
32. CPR Edward I, vol. 3 1292-1301 p. 508 http://tinyurl.com/6gr3gkq
33. CPR Edward I, vol. 3 1292-1301 p. 564, 584 http://tinyurl.com/6lfjlhf
http://tinyurl.com/5wdmnqp
34. Calendar of the Justiciary Rolls of Ireland, 23 to 31 Edward I,
ed. by James Mills (1905). P. 20, 71 http://tinyurl.com/3vw4f6n
35. CFR Vol. 2 (1912), Edward II, (A.D. 1307-1319). P. 35 http://tinyurl.com/23o2fxm
36. Registers of Walter Bronescombe (A.D. 1257-1280), and Peter
Quivil (A.D 1280-1291), Bishops of Exeter, by Rev. F.C. Hingeston-
Randolph (1889). P. 255. Google Books Copy Archive.org Copy
37. Whetters p. 14
38. CIPM vol. 5 p. 164 no. 139 Henry Bodrugan http://tinyurl.com/25zqbdp
39. Whetters p. 72
Joe