Why so many actors and actresses and so few painters?

[Leo]

This morning a friend alerted me that on a TV newsprogramme it was said that Johnny Depp was a 20th or so cousin to HM Queen Elizabeth II. Of course, no details were provided.

Being a cousin may not give Johnny Depp royal ancestors.

As far as painters are concerned I found three, Peter Paul Rubens, Minerva Josephine Chapman and M. C. Escher. Perhaps we should add Sir Winston Churchill and Prince Charles?

Actors and actresses there are many to be found who have royal ancestors :

Alexander Armstrong - Timothy Bentinck - Marlon Brando - Billie Burke - Humphrey Bogart - Montgomery Clift - Glenn Close - Noel Coward - Ellen Degeneres - Bruce Dern - Laura Dern - Michael Douglas - Rupert Everett - Joan Fontaine - Gloria Grahame - Hugh Grant - Jake Gyllenhaal - Maggie Gyllenhaal - Tom Hanks - Olivia de Havilland - Audrey Hepburn -Katherine Hepburn -Paris Hilton - Sally Kirkland - Kris Kristofferson - Steve McQueen - Catherine Oxenberg - Anthony Perkins - Paul Peterson - Randolph Scott - Brooke Shields - Sissy Spacek - Rachel Ward - Fay Wray

Does anyone know of other painters who have Royal ancestors?

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia

[PDel...@aol.com]

Maybe John Singer Sargeant has some? His line , in America, is quite a long
one and of some note. What about Millais and Banksie?

Peter

[John P. Ravilious]

---------------------

Dear Leo,

The noted American painter Mary DeNeale Morgan (1868-1948) had
several lines to Robert II and Robert III of Scotland. Following is
one:

1. Robert II, K of Scots = NN (not married)
2. Mary Stewart (illegitimate) = Sir John de Danielston
3. Sir Robert de Danielston (d. bef 8 May 1397) = NN
4. Margaret Danielston = Sir William Cunyngham of Kilmaurs (d. bef 1
Mar 1417/8)
5. Sir Robert Cunyngham (d. bef 11 Jul 1439) = Agnes Montgomery
6. Alexander Cunyngham, Lord Kilmaurs, 1st Earl of Glencairn (d.
1488) = Margaret Hepburn
7. William Cunyngham, 2nd son, laird of Craigends = 1) Elizabeth
Stewart
8. William Cunyngham, 2nd of Craigends (k. 11 Aug 1533) = Giles
Campbell
9. Gabriel Cunyngham, 3rd of Craigends (k. 10 Sept 1547) = Elizabeth
Livingston
10. James Cunyngham, 2nd son, 1st of Ashinyards = Marion Fleming
11. William Cunyngham, 6th son, Keeper of the Signet (d. 1626) =
Rebecca Muirhead
11. Richard Cunyngham, 1st of Glengarnock (d. 9 Nov 1623) = Elizabeth
Heriot
12. Robert Cunyngham, em. to West Indies (d. 13 Nov 1743) = 1) Judith
E. de Bonnefont
13. Mary Cunyngham, em. to Philadelphia (d. 13 Mar 1771) = 1) Isaac
Roberdeau
14. Daniel Roberdeau (d. 5 Jan 1795) = 1) Mary Bostwick
15. Mary Roberdeau (d. 1808) = Thomas Patten (d. 1820)
16. Mary Ann Patten (d. 23 Aug 1822) = (as 2nd wife) Dr. Thomas Wolfe
(d. 1825)
17. Mary DeNeale Wolfe = Judge Thomas N. Morgan, of New Orleans (d.
1844)
18. Thomas Wolfe Morgan, removed to Oakland, Calif. = Christine Agnes
Ross
19. Mary DeNeale Morgan, artist, b. (Oakland ?)24 May 1868j, d. Carmel
10 Oct 1948

Part of the above ancestry is already in the Genealogics
database.

Cheers,

John

[Matthew Connolly]

On May 16, 12:29 am, "Leo" <can2...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
> Does anyone know of other painters who have Royal ancestors?
>

The painter Francis Bacon, at least - his biographer Michael Peppiatt
showed Bacon's descent from the Harley earls of Oxford (also ancestral
to the late Queen Mother), so there should be a few lines there.

[J.L.Fernandez Blanco]

On May 16, 2:59 pm, Matthew Connolly <mvernonconno...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> On May 16, 12:29 am, "Leo" <can2...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know of other painters who have Royal ancestors?
>

Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec sure had.
There is a possibility -not well studied- that Édouard Manet also had,
through her mother Eugénie Fournier (a quick look at her ancestry
shows Sabran, Uzès, Castellane, Foix, Anduze, etc., so he may have
royal ancestry too).
Diego Velázquez (Rodríguez de Silva y Velázquez) is a good candidate
too (and if he hadn't royal ancestors, which I doubt, he had many
Royal descendants, including most of the current royal heads of
Europe)
And that for starters.
I believe the reason why there are so many actors "studied" and so few
painters is that actors are sort of new "royalty" with so much gossip
selling, while painting (or any other manifestation of art for that
matter) don't sell as well as far as gossip is concerned (unless of
course you are talking about Picasso or Dalí or some other eccentric
artist, whose ancestries have not been properly studied yet). And, as
usual, everybody is looking to mostly American actors of English
descent. Paris Hilton sells well while Diego Linares (a well known
Argentinian painter, with multiple royal ancestors) doesn't...I
imagine many saying, "Diego Who?"...go figure!
Regards,
JL Fernández-Blanco

[WJho...@aol.com]

In a message dated 5/16/2011 6:10:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
the...@aol.com writes:

> 11. William Cunyngham, 6th son, Keeper of the Signet (d. 1626) =
> Rebecca Muirhead
> 11. Richard Cunyngham, 1st of Glengarnock (d. 9 Nov 1623) = Elizabeth
> Heriot
> 12. Robert Cunyngham, em. to West Indies (d. 13 Nov 1743) = 1) Judith
> E. de Bonnefont
>

12 died one hundred and twenty years after his own father ?
I'm finding that difficult to believe.

[John P. Ravilious]

On May 16, 12:02 pm, WJhon...@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 5/16/2011 6:10:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>

> ther...@aol.com writes:
> > 11. William Cunyngham, 6th son, Keeper of the Signet (d. 1626) =
> > Rebecca Muirhead
> > 11. Richard Cunyngham, 1st of Glengarnock (d. 9 Nov 1623) = Elizabeth
> > Heriot
> > 12. Robert Cunyngham, em. to West Indies (d. 13 Nov 1743) = 1) Judith
> > E. de Bonnefont
>
> 12 died one hundred and twenty years after his own father ?
> I'm finding that difficult to believe.

Dear Will,

Perhaps more believable if the dates were B.C. instead.....;)

Regardless, this was a typo. Richard Cunyngham was baptised on 9
November 1623 (the date picked up by the errant correspondent). He
died on 27 October 1670 (will proved 27 April 1671: Glasgow Commissary
Court, CC9/7/39).

Pity the computer doesn't proofread as well as 'spellcheck'.

Dispensa mea,

John

[FChalfant]

Kay Sage (Obadiah Bruen and Sarah also Anne Dudley and Simon
Bradstreet and Rev. Peter Bulkeley and Grace Chetwode)

Norman Rockwell (Rev. Peter Bulkeley and Grace Chetwode)

Fitz Hugh Lane (Thomas Lawrence and Joan Antrobus)

N.C. and Andrew Wyeth (Thomas Trowbridge and Elizabeth Marshall)

Rockwell Kent (William Hutchinson and Anne Marbury)

Asher Durand (Obadiah Bruen and Sarah)

Edward Simmons (Constant Southworth and Elizabeth Collier)

Will Howe Foote (Samuel Appleton and Judith Everard)

John Quincy Adams (the painter) (William Sargent and Sarah)

John Singer Sargent (Christopher Batt and Anne Baynton)

Frederic Church (Matthew Allyn and Margaret Wyatt)

Georgia O'Keefe (Edward Fitzrandolph and Elizabeth Blossom)

I'm sure there are more. Julian Alden Weir by marriage and Kay Sage
was the wife of Yves Tanguy.

Fred Chalfant

[Matthew Connolly]

On May 16, 9:55 pm, FChalfant <fc...@charm.net> wrote:
> I'm sure there are more. Julian Alden Weir by marriage and Kay Sage
> was the wife of Yves Tanguy.
>

Also by marriage would be Thomas Gainsborough, whose wife was
apparently an illegitimate daughter of the 3rd Duke of Beaufort; and
Lucian Freud, by marriage to Lady Caroline Blackwood.

Balthus was from a noble Polish family, maybe he has some line?

[Wjhonson]

I'll admit that's better however even 73 years is an awful long time to wait between the deaths of a father and his son.
You could fit three more generations in there!
I would challenge the pedigree at that point.

Dear Will,

Dispensa mea,

John

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[John P. Ravilious]

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--------------------

Dear Will,

By all means. The apparent anomaly you point to was the result
(in simplest terms) of

1. Richard Cunyngham having died at the age of 46 (fl. Nov 1623 -
27 Oct 1670);

2. Robert Cunyngham having been his 8th son and 11th child by his
marriage (3 Oct 1654) to Elizabeth Heriot;

3. Robert Cunyngham having lived to the ripe old age of 74 (b.
Ayrshire, 24 Mar 1669; d. Scotland, 13 Nov 1743).

Genealogy is replete with chronological anomalies. One of my
favourites - somewhat the reverse of the above - is that of Alexander,
Lord Montgomery (d. aft 7 Oct 1469) having outlived his eldest son and
grandson, and being succeeded by his great-grandson Hugh Montgomery
(b. bef 11 Oct 1463), 1st Earl of Eglinton. [Cf. also Louis XIV and
Louis XV of France.]

Cheers,

John

[holl...@gmail.com]

Could you at least give Gary Boyd Roberts credit for your list. It's
obvious where it's from.

[Nathaniel Taylor]

At 1:55 PM -0700 5/16/11, FChalfant wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know of other painters who have Royal ancestors?
>

<...>

>Fitz Hugh Lane (Thomas Lawrence and Joan Antrobus)

Now (since 2005) more correctly known to the art world as "Fitz Henry
Lane" (though he was born Nathaniel Rogers Lane).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitz_Henry_Lane

He's a cousin of mine.

Nathaniel Lane Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://nltaylor.net/sketchbook/

[FChalfant]

The list came from a variety of sources. Some from Gary. Some probably
secondarily from Gary. The Georgia O'Keefe connection I first saw on
WARGS. But if Gary detailed the ancestry of Edward Simmons, Asher
Durand, Will Howe Foote and John Quincy Adams (the painter) please
show me where, because it would have saved me some effort if I had
known.

[PDel...@aol.com]

What about Ben Long IV? I got to know quite well twenty years ago, a hugely
gifted artist, is he of Royal descent?

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Long_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Long)

Peter