Hastings of Roxby
wjhonson
create a lineage from 1340 back to the time of King Richard I.
The question that I have remaining is can a line be drawn from the
Hastings of Roxby forward to the time of King Henry 8 or later ? That
is, did this line survive ?
The clue to making the connection backward is in the office of
something called the forester of Kingthorpe which should allow us to
go back to Alan de Kingthorpe who held this office (or something
similar) under King John.
Will Johnson
John P. Ravilious
Dear Will,
I'm given to understand that the will of Sir Ralph de Hastings
calls Edmund de Hastings his nephew ('nepos' I presume). If the
descent of Hastings of Allerston and Gissing is in fact traced back to
a son of Hugh de Hastings (d. bef 1152) and Erneburga de Flamville the
male line ascent should then be to Walter 'the Deacon', who held the
barony of Little Easton at Domesday Book, 1086.
There is heraldic evidence that tends to support a common male
descent, but this is less than conclusive.
Cheers,
John
WJho...@aol.com
forward? That is, into the modern day? Or at least into the day of Queen
Elizabeth?
That's what I'm wondering.
Will
taf
> Thanks John, my question is, can the Hastings of Roxby line be traced
> forward? That is, into the modern day? Or at least into the day of Queen
> Elizabeth?
Perhaps you could fill us in on how far you have them, so we don't
waste time finding material of which you may already be aware. A
simple Google search takes them down to at least the mid-1520s, when
Francis Hastings, son and heir of Sir Roger Hastings of "Rokeby" was
mired in debt. The Visitations of the North (1558) show a sister of
Francis marrying into the Daltons, with two additional generations of
descent, and the then-current representative of the Daltons, Roger,
would seem to match a 1595 will. Does this count or is it just the
male line that satisfies your desires?
taf
WJho...@aol.com
t...@clearwire.net writes:
A
simple Google search takes them down to at least the mid-1520s, when
Francis Hastings, son and heir of Sir Roger Hastings of "Rokeby" was
mired in debt.>>
My original message was that I think I had a line that I could take from
about 1180 to about 1340-1360 and then I asked if it can be taken forward
from that point any significant extent. Can you tell me exactly what source
you used to get from 1340 to 1520 ?
I'm not so much interested to know is *some* hastings was living at Roxby,
but rather to actually connect this particular line exactly with some
sources. Sometimes sources will just jump over three generations and that
wouldn't be very helpful.
Thanks
Will
taf
> I'm not so much interested to know is *some* hastings was living at Roxby,
> but rather to actually connect this particular line exactly with some
> sources. Sometimes sources will just jump over three generations and that
> wouldn't be very helpful.
Yes, sometimes they do, so that is why it is not very helpful to be so
vague about your interests. You somehow expect me to document a
lineage back to a specific person you have yet to name. Of course I
am guessing that there is a connection - what else can I do (and how
much can you really expect me to do on your behalf)?
(Note that there was a thread here regarding Edmund Hastings of Roxby,
under the name: 1479 Dispensation, Edmund Hastings and Mary
Greystoke.)
taf
WJho...@aol.com
married.
I know that there are spotty mentions of Roxby here and there, but I'd like
to know if someone *already has* in their files, this particular person,
then living, and having known descendents to a much later period.
I'm not asking you to do any research Todd.
Will
taf
> In 1330-40 there was an Edmund Hastings of Roxby living and then apparently
> married.
What I found began with an Edmund Hastings of Roxby m. ca. 1400, and
descended to the children of the aforementioned Francis in the 1563
Yorkshire visitation. Given the names, a connection of one Edmund to
the other seems likely, but there are probably two intervening
generations.
taf
John
The Francis Hastings and Sir Roger Hastings of Roxby mentioned by Todd
are covered in a pedigree of the family in vol. 7 of the [new] History
of Northumberland. But the pedigree only goes back as far as Sir
Edmund Hastings of Roxby (d. 1448). This Sir Edmund was an MP and is
covered in vol 3 of Roskell's HOP 1386-1421. Roskell has the
following to say about Sir Edmund's possible ancestry:
"The branch of the Hastings family to which Sir Edmund belonged had
settled in Roxby during the 13th century, later acquiring the manor of
Kingsthorpe through marriage. No positive evidence survives of his
immediate ancestry, although he may perhaps have been the son of one
Edmund Hastings of Roxby, a nephew and legatee of.... Sir Ralph
Hastings of Slingsby. The latter [Sir Ralph] died of wounds sustained
at the battle of Neville's Cross in 1346."
[end of quote]
You mention an Edmund Hastings of Roxby living and apparently married
in 1330-40. Do you have any details on who he married - or any
parentage or issue for him? The Kingsthorpe marriage mentioned by
Roskell might be a clue for you.
John
I assume you've also read the material on the descent of the manor of
Roxby in VCH Yorkshire North Riding vol. 2 (available online), which
cites a number of sources that might be worth checking out.
wjhonson
John Hastings of Kynthorp occurs in 1362 when he was accused of
hunting in a wood without permission (CPR)
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e3v12/body/Edward3vol12page0208.pdf
He is likely I suppose to be the son of Edmund Hastings of Roxby
"junior" who was named as forester of Kingthorpe (Kynthorpe) in 1334
by the heiress of that office Alice de Mansergh "aged 11" 1323, still
living 1338.
Probably indicating that the two had married.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=64694
Alice was the daughter and sole heiress of Roger de Mansergh, forester
in Kingthorpe j.u. who died "abt 1323" and his wife Petronilla
(Pernel) Kinthorpe of Folcardby and of Kynthorpe (in 1316) and of Pyk
Manor (as heiress) "aged 8" in an IPM Aug 1275 of her grandfather
Alan. She was living in 1316 and then holding Kingthorpe.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=64694
http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924084250582#page/n185/mode/1up
Petronilla was heiress of her father and grandfather, her father
Geoffrey Kinthorpe d.v.p. before Aug 1275
Alan de Kinthorpe, her grandfather was of Folcardby j.u. and of
Kynthorpe and of Pyk (Manor). His writ of diem clausit extremum dated
17 Jul 1275 and his IPM 6 Aug 1275
Alan's wife was Petronilla (Parnell) Crackhall of Fockerby in
Adlingfleet which perhaps was her maritagium, her father being John de
Crackhall.
Alan was the son of Geoffrey de Kingthorpe whose homage was taken 1234
as his own father, another Alan had held Kingthorpe in the time of
King John and presumably had just died.
That's what I have.
What I want is to extend this Hastings family forward (not backward),
to see if there might be any living descents.
Will
taf
> are covered in a pedigree of the family in vol. 7 of the [new] History
> of Northumberland. But the pedigree only goes back as far as Sir
> Edmund Hastings of Roxby (d. 1448). This Sir Edmund was an MP and is
> covered in vol 3 of Roskell's HOP 1386-1421. Roskell has the
> following to say about Sir Edmund's possible ancestry:
>
> "The branch of the Hastings family to which Sir Edmund belonged had
> settled in Roxby during the 13th century, later acquiring the manor of
> Kingsthorpe through marriage. No positive evidence survives of his
> immediate ancestry, although he may perhaps have been the son of one
> Edmund Hastings of Roxby, a nephew and legatee of.... Sir Ralph
> Hastings of Slingsby. The latter [Sir Ralph] died of wounds sustained
> at the battle of Neville's Cross in 1346."
> [end of quote]
This pedigree is seriously confused in published sources. The 1563
Visitation of Yorkshire shows Francis son of Roger as son of Edward
(m. Greystoke), son of Edward, m. Fenton.
These are too few generations to a 1400 marriage. In fact, the Edmund
who married Maud Greystoke by dispensation (a possible source for
details) did so on 1479, as a late second marriage. He would seem to
be the Edmund who was son and heir of John, and born 1 Apr. 1431. John
was, in 1422 aged 21, the heir of Elizabeth Boynton, dec., as son of
Edmund Hastynges, son of Elizabeth Fenton, daughter of John Fenton,
whose widow was Elizabeth Boynton. If this pedigree is correct, it
would place the Edmund Hastings/Fenton marriage back another
generation, say 1375, and the groom could be the son of the 1340-era
poacher. However, most sources place the Fenton marriage in about
1400, so it could be that the 1422 proof of age is erroneous, and
rather than being son of Edmund, son of Elizabeth Fenton, John
Hastings was son of Edmund BY Elizabeth. A better study of Fenton
would probably illuminate this.
taf
taf
> However, most sources place the Fenton marriage in about
> 1400, so it could be that the 1422 proof of age is erroneous, and
> rather than being son of Edmund, son of Elizabeth Fenton, John
> Hastings was son of Edmund BY Elizabeth. A better study of Fenton
> would probably illuminate this.
>
Sorry: those Fentons should be Feltons.
wjhonson
>
> > The Francis Hastings and Sir Roger Hastings of Roxby mentioned by Todd
> > are covered in a pedigree of the family in vol. 7 of the [new] History
> > of Northumberland. But the pedigree only goes back as far as Sir
> > Edmund Hastings of Roxby (d. 1448). This Sir Edmund was an MP and is
> > covered in vol 3 of Roskell's HOP 1386-1421. Roskell has the
> > following to say about Sir Edmund's possible ancestry:
>
> > "The branch of the Hastings family to which Sir Edmund belonged had
> > settled in Roxby during the 13th century, later acquiring the manor of
> > Kingsthorpe through marriage. No positive evidence survives of his
> > immediate ancestry, although he may perhaps have been the son of one
> > Edmund Hastings of Roxby, a nephew and legatee of.... Sir Ralph
> > Hastings of Slingsby. The latter [Sir Ralph] died of wounds sustained
> > at the battle of Neville's Cross in 1346."
> > [end of quote]
>
> This pedigree is seriously confused in published sources. The 1563
> Visitation of Yorkshire shows Francis son of Roger as son of Edward
About this Vis York 1563 "Hastynges"
http://books.google.com/books?id=pjMEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA153#v=onepage&q=&f=false
the marriage of Roger Hastings "of Roxby" to "Anne" (Amicia) Lewis can
be pinned exactly to 26 Jun 1484 or at least that is the date on which
the rector of "Leckonfield" was directed to marry them, calling them
domestic servants of the earl of Northumberland, in the chapel within
the manor of Leckonfield.
See
http://books.google.com/books?id=rzA8AAAAIAAJ&as_brr=3&pg=PA273#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Will
Douglas Richardson
of Commons 1386–1421, 3 (1992): 317–319, which interested parties may
wish to consult.
Elizabeth Felton, wife of Edmund Hastings, Knt., was born c.1379–
1381. She was heiress in 1402 to her half-brother, John Felton. I
believe this couple has modern descendants, but I have not traced
them.
Elizabeth (Felton) Hastings was the daughter of John Felton, Knt.
(died 1396), of Edlingham, Northumberland, Hamsterley and Medomsley,
co. Durham, Boddington, Northamptonshire, by an unknown 1st wife.
John Felton, Knt., is a lineal descendant of King Edward I of England
through his mother, Isabel of Fife, suo jure Countess (or Lady) of
Fife.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
taf
> Elizabeth Felton, wife of Edmund Hastings, Knt., was born c.1379–
> 1381. She was heiress in 1402 to her half-brother, John Felton. I
> believe this couple has modern descendants, but I have not traced
> them.
What is the basis for this chronology? As I said, the 1422 ipm of
Elizabeth Boynton, says that said John Hastings, aged 21, was son of
Edmund Hastings, son of Elizabeth Felton, daughter of John Felton,
formerly husband of the deceased. He could hardly, then, be grandson
of a woman born in 1379/80, yet your chronology is typical of what I
see. The Edmund in the pedigree (or at least an Edmund in the
pedigree) was still living in the 1440s, so again this seems more
consistent with John being son of Edmund by Elizabeth, not son of
Edmund son of Elizabeth, or Edmund would still have been the heir in
1422, not John.
Still, either the ipm or the above chronology must be wrong.
taf
John
As Todd mentions, the pedigree of Hastings of Roxby in the 1563/4
Yorkshire visitation is clearly missing a couple of generations. OTOH
the pedigree I mentioned in the [new] History of Northumberland
matches the construction Todd gives above, i.e.:
Sir Edmund Hastings (d. 1448); m. (1) Elizabeth Felton
Sir John Hastings (d. [vp] before 1445)
Sir Edmund Hastings
Sir Roger Hastings
Roskell dates the Hastings/Felton marriage as "by 1401" - probably
based on the proof of age of the son Sir John in 1422. And a Felton
pedigree immediately preceding that of Hastings in the History of
Northumberland indicates that Elizabeth was 15 years of age at her
father's death 31 Mar 1396. So a 1401 marriage date makes sense,
while a 1375 date is clearly impossible.
Roskell says that Elizabeth Felton was the 1st wife of the the elder
Sir Edmund Hastings, who mar. (2) Agnes, dau. of Thomas, 3rd Lord
Sutton of Holdernesse and widow of Sir Ralph Bulmer of Walton.
However, some visitation pedigrees say that he also married [first?]
Muriel, dau. of Sir John Dynham. But she was actually the wife of
Edward (not Edmund) Hastings of Fenwick, in a different branch of the
family.
For the issue of which of the wives of the younger Sir Edmund was the
mother of Sir Roger Hastings (and who the first wife was), see the
2006 post by Brad Verity titled "1479 Dispensation, Edmund Hastings
and Mary Greystoke" cited earlier by Todd.
The connection of the elder Sir Edmund Hastings of Roxby to the
earlier individuals mentioned in this thread certainly seems likely,
but it will probably be difficult to identify the intervening
generations conclusively. As to the living descendants that Will is
seeking, the best bet seems to be the Dalton link that Todd mentioned
earlier - see that line in the 1563/4 Yorkshire visitation.
taf
> As to the living descendants that Will is
> seeking, the best bet seems to be the Dalton link that Todd mentioned
> earlier - see that line in the 1563/4 Yorkshire visitation.
Perhaps. The youngest Roger in 1563/4 was he of the 1595 PCC will,
and names several children, but had planted himself in Waterford,
making tracing down a little more difficult. He had a brother George
(presumably born after 1563/4) who also left a will. For these see the
following, which while unreliable can probably be trusted to have
abstracted the wills: http://www.daltondatabank.org/Chronicles/RDaltonBook/Chapter_2_History.html
The following then quotes a Waterford will for a Roger Dalton in the
1798:
http://www.daltongensoc.com/diharchive/8_8_August_2005/text.html
Another possibility: when Francis Hastings granted some of his
properties to George Swynburn, the latter is called his kinsman. The
Swynburns can be traced down at least to the 19th century, but I have
yet to find whether the kinship involved a Swynburn descent from the
Hastings family or a link to one of the families maternal to Hastings.
Here, by the way, is the ipm that apparently mistakes the Felton
pedigree:
http://books.google.com/books?id=SPwUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA170
taf
wjhonson
> generations conclusively. As to the living descendants that Will is
> seeking, the best bet seems to be the Dalton link that Todd mentioned
> earlier - see that line in the 1563/4 Yorkshire visitation.
You would think.
But I don't really like the fact that just a few pages away, no
daughter Katherine to Sir Roger Hastings is mentioned
http://books.google.com/books?id=pjMEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA153#v=onepage&q=&f=false
By this date, Roger himself had been dead 50 years, but ....
It begs for a better source to make this link concrete.
Will
John
> On Nov 25, 6:25 pm, John <jhiggins...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > As to the living descendants that Will is
> > seeking, the best bet seems to be the Dalton link that Todd mentioned
> > earlier - see that line in the 1563/4 Yorkshire visitation.
>
> Perhaps. The youngest Roger in 1563/4 was he of the 1595 PCC will,
> and names several children, but had planted himself in Waterford,
> making tracing down a little more difficult. He had a brother George
> (presumably born after 1563/4) who also left a will. For these see the
> following, which while unreliable can probably be trusted to have
> The following then quotes a Waterford will for a Roger Dalton in the
> 1798:http://www.daltongensoc.com/diharchive/8_8_August_2005/text.html
>
> Another possibility: when Francis Hastings granted some of his
> properties to George Swynburn, the latter is called his kinsman. The
> Swynburns can be traced down at least to the 19th century, but I have
> yet to find whether the kinship involved a Swynburn descent from the
> Hastings family or a link to one of the families maternal to Hastings.
>
> Here, by the way, is the ipm that apparently mistakes the Felton
> pedigree:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=SPwUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA170
>
> taf
The fact that Francis Hastings apparently referred to George Swinburne
as his kinsman is intriguing, as George Swinburne [or Nafferton and
eventually of Edlingham] certainly had descendants living into the
20th century. The line of Swinburne of Edlingham ended with a
daughter who mar. her kinsman William Swinburne of Capheaton. The
Swinburne baronets of Capheaton went extinct in 1934, leaving a
daughter who married and had children, probably still living. And
there are enough other daughters in the Swinburne of Edlingham line
prior to the marriage to Swinburne of Capheaton that there are
probably other lines to the current century. A good project for our
industrious friend Will...:-)
But I can't readily see a descent for George Swinburne from the
Hastings family of Roxby - at least in the male line. George was the
son Thomas (of Nafferton) by Margaret, dau. of Robert Mitchelson of
Offerton, Durham. Thomas was a son of John (of Nafferton) by Margaret
Haggerston, and John was a natural son of Sir William Swinburne of
Capheaton. With Sir William we're back to roughly the timeframe of
the elder Sir Edmund Hastings of Roxby (d. 1448), whose ancestry is
uncertain. But no apparent connection so far to the Hastings
family....
The Dalton connection looks more fruitful for descents from Hastings
of Roxby, particularly with the Irish association - although were
likely many Dalton families in Ireland at various times.
FWIW, with respect to descents from Sir Edmund Hastings of Roxby and
Elizabeth Felton, both "Plantagenet Ancestry" [2004] and "Magna Carta
Ancestry" [2005] state without qualification that this "couple has
modern descendants (not traced in this book)." The books' author is
apparently now backing off from this statement and saying that "I
BELIEVE [caps added] this couple has modern descendants, but I have
not traced them". Interesting change....I wonder what the new editions
of the books will say.
John
>
> > As to the living descendants that Will is
> > seeking, the best bet seems to be the Dalton link that Todd mentioned
> > earlier - see that line in the 1563/4 Yorkshire visitation.
>
> Perhaps. The youngest Roger in 1563/4 was he of the 1595 PCC will,
> and names several children, but had planted himself in Waterford,
> making tracing down a little more difficult. He had a brother George
> (presumably born after 1563/4) who also left a will. For these see the
> following, which while unreliable can probably be trusted to have
> The following then quotes a Waterford will for a Roger Dalton in the
> 1798:http://www.daltongensoc.com/diharchive/8_8_August_2005/text.html
>
If the Dalton connection to Hastings of Roxby is valid, then Will
almost certainly has the living descendants that he's looking for.
Roger Dalton whose will was dated 1596 was of Knockmoan, Co.
Waterford, and was an MP . According to his bio in Hassler's HOP
1558-1603, this Roger left three sons including one named Roger. This
is presumably the Roger Dalton of Knockmoan who d. 25 Dec 1620 (per CB
2:261 sub Osborne). The CB article on the Osborne baronets notes that
Sir Richard, the 1st baronet, possessed the Knockmoan estate and
suggests, citing the noted Irish genealogist G. D. Burtchaell, that he
acquired it through marriage to a daughter of the younger Roger
Dalton. The Osborne baronets are still extant and covered in recent
editions of BP.
It would be desirable to have better support for the Osborne/Dalton
marriage, but it looks like a pretty reasonable hypothesis so far.
Douglas Richardson
the Visitation of the the North dated 1558 indicates that Edmund
Dalton married "Katheryn, doughtre to Sir Roger Hastings of Rosbye in
Yorkesheer " and that they had issue two sons, Edmund and William
[Reference: Harvey et al. Vis. of the North, 1 (Surtees Soc. 122)
(1912): 147 (1552 Vis.) (Dalton pedigree)]. As such, I think the
evidence for the marriage of Edmund Dalton and Katherine Hastings is
rather solid.
The visitation item may be viewed in snippet view at the following
weblink:
The following is a weblink which traces the extended descendants of
Edmund Hastings and Elizabeth Felton down to the Dalton family.
Warning: This information needs verification.
http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=bevangenealogy&id=I66361
taf
> Regarding the alleged Hastings-Dalton connection, I should note that
> the Visitation of the the North dated 1558 indicates that Edmund
> Dalton married "Katheryn, doughtre to Sir Roger Hastings of Rosbye in
> Yorkesheer " and that they had issue two sons, Edmund and William
We are still a good while after the fact. The primary, Roger Dalton,
the grandson of "Katheryn", was by his father's second wife, and was
already on his third at the time of the Visitation. Still, even the
most stringent are usually willing to accept that a man would know the
name and origin of his own grandparent (which is why I drew attention
to this Visitation of the North entry yesterday, thereby setting off
this whole line of Dalton inquiry).
> The visitation item may be viewed in snippet view at the following
> weblink:
For the full work, see:
http://www.archive.org/stream/visitationsofthe00surtuoft/visitationsofthe00surtuoft_djvu.txt
> The following is a weblink which traces the extended descendants of
> Edmund Hastings and Elizabeth Felton down to the Dalton family.
There may also be descents from Kathryn's granddaughter Elizabeth
Dalton, who married Bartholomew Poskey/Paslew and is the only other
Dalton of this generation named but who did not d.s.p. However, I
can't find him anywhere.
taf
taf
> The following is a weblink which traces the extended descendants of
> Edmund Hastings and Elizabeth Felton down to the Dalton family.
> Warning: This information needs verification.
>
> http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=bevangenealogy&id=...
Just as a follow-up, Mr. Richardson's skepticism was well placed. The
Ancestry.com descent shows Elizabeth, daughter of Roger Dalton of
Kirkby Misperson marrying John Hutton of Hunwick. Again proving the
usefulness of the group archives, as this family was discussed here in
May, this family can be found in Durham Visitation Pedigrees
(1575,1615,1666), p. 183:
http://ia311032.us.archive.org/0/items/pedigreesrecorde00lond/pedigreesrecorde00lond.pdf
However, the Hutton of Hunwick pedigree shows the wife of John Hutton
to be Elizabeth Dalton, daughter and heiress of Ralph Dalton of West
Aukland. This is clearly the John Hutton the Ancestry author had in
mind, as the next generation matches. It looks like someone has
fallen victim to names-the-same confusion between two distinct Dalton
families.
taf
John
> the Visitation of the the North dated 1558 indicates that Edmund
> Dalton married "Katheryn, doughtre to Sir Roger Hastings of Rosbye in
> Yorkesheer " and that they had issue two sons, Edmund and William
> [Reference: Harvey et al. Vis. of the North, 1 (Surtees Soc. 122)
> (1912): 147 (1552 Vis.) (Dalton pedigree)]. As such, I think the
> evidence for the marriage of Edmund Dalton and Katherine Hastings is
> rather solid.
>
yesterday and cited the Visitations of the North. The evidence for
the marriage of Edmund Dalton to a woman named Katherine Hastings may
be "rather solid", but it must be conceded (as Will has mentioned)
that the question of her parentage is still somewhat doubtful, since
the pedigrees for Hastings of Roxby (such as they are) don't give a
daughter named Katherine to Sir Roger Hastings of Roxby.
The omission in the Hastings pedigree is notable because the pedigree
of Hastings of Roxby in the 1563/4 visitation is more or less
contemporaneous with the Dalton pedigree of the visitation of 1558.
It seems a bit strange that the Dalton grandson of Katherine Hastings
would remember her connection while her supposed nephew Henry Hastings
would overlook his aunt in the same time frame. At least it raises
the question of whether Katherine was of a different branch of the
Hastings family and mis-assigned to the Roxby branch by the Daltons.
Since the Daltons appear to have at least some living descendants
(including possibly some in America, through the Irish connection),
the uncertainty in this connection will probably not prevent eager
pedigree gatherers from exploiting this potential royal descent - even
if there's not sufficient proof for it.
wjhonson
is something there which I didn't have and which could possibly be the
final nail in this coffin.
Edmond Dalton has an IPM dated 18 Sep 1530, in which it states that
Roger is his son and heir, then aged 14 and then already married to
Anne Whalley.
This, combined with the earlier Vis cited York tells us a few more
things than are quite apparent. It tells us for example that Edmond
and Elizabeth Catherell were married before 1517 and therefore
Beatrice Layton, who had two children before she died, must have had
those children before 1516.
That pushes Edmond's possible birthyear back to 1496 !
That is a problem. He is simply too old to have been the son of a
woman whose own parents did not marry until 26 Jun 1484 or shortly
afterward, at Leckonfield as I posted early in this thread.
Even were that marriage date suspect, Roger himself was "aged 26 and
more" 1487 at his father's IPM, which is really pushing it. We'd have
to suggest three generations in a row of tight births. I just don't
buy it.
What I'd buy more likely is that perhaps Katherine (Hastings) Dalton
is really not a daughter of Roger, but a sister of Roger. That would
make the mistake a little perhaps less careless, than simply having
her be some unrelated Hastings from somewhere else.
But it would be nice to find something more concrete.
Will