Robert Hicks/Hickes of the _Fortune_

[Jared Olar]

Help me who can:

In the book SIGNERS OF THE MAYFLOWER COMPACT, by Annie Arnoux
Haxtun, 1897-1899, reprinted 1968, page 104, there is a pedigree of the
colonist Robert Hickes (who came to Massachusetts on the _Fortune_ in
1621) tracing him back to a SIR ELLIS HICKS who was supposedly knighted
on the battlefield of Poitiers by Edward the Black Prince. She claims to
be taking this information from the "Barton Genealogy," pages 189-90,
whatever that is.
The size of it is this--that Robert Hicks belonged to the same
family from which came SIR BAPTIST HICKS, created 5 May 1628 Baron Hicks of
Ilmington, co. Warwick, and Viscount Campden, as well as the Baronets
Hicks (later Hicks-Beach). [See Cokayne's _Complete Baronetage_,
microprint edition 1983, pp.125-127,150-151]
Here is the reputed relationship of Robert Hicks to the
'gentlemanly' Hickses. The capitalised names are verified by Cokayne:

Sir Ellis Hicks
!

!

!
John Hicks
d.1492
!
!----------------------------------------!
Thomas Hicks ROBERT HICKS
d.1565 of St. Pancras Lane,
md.Margaret Atwood Cheapside, London, Mercer.
! md.JULIA ARTHUR
! !
!-----------------------! !-----------------------!
John Hicks Baptist Hicks SIR MICHAEL SIR BAPTIST
b.c.1526 HICKES HICKES
md.Mary Everard of Beverston 1st. Viscount
! Castle, co. Campden
! Gloucester. d.20/28 Oct. 1629
! d.15 Aug.1612 !
! ! !
!-----------------------! ! !
Baptist Hicks James Hicks WILIAM HICKS {2 DAUS.}
d. unmd. md.Phoebe Baronet of
! Beverston Castle
! d.9 Oct. 1680
!
!--------------------------------------------------!
{3 daus.} John Ephraim *Robert* Samuel Thomas James
Hicks Hicks *Hicks* Hicks Hicks Hicks
d. y. b.1580

The chronology of this pedigree seems really bad. For example, you
will notice that Robert is said to have been born a whole century before
the death of William Hicks, reputed second cousin of Robert's reputed
father James. Furthermore, on the same page that the above pedigree appears,
Haxtun quotes another authority which says that Robert Hicks was the son of
JOHN Hicks, not James. Which is right? Is it known for certain one way
or the other?
Concerning the abovenamed sons of James and Phoebe Hicks, Haxtun
states that Samuel Hicks has two sons, named TIMOTHY and RICHARD--these
two, she said, emigrated New England. [Where??]. Samuel's brother Thomas
was a linen draper of London who followed his brother Robert to New
England. Finally, the youngest named son, James, was a clerk in the
London warehouse of his 'cousin' Sir Baptist Hicks (presumably the 1st.
Viscount Campden).

Is any of this true, or is it some of that typical genealogical
bullshit from the nineteenth century?
----------------------------------------------
There is one other notice which seems to concern this family.
This comes from "English Origins of New England Families," second series,
volume II, 1985, page 760:

Henry Miners "married one Henreta Hicks, . . . daughter to Edward
Hicks of Glocester, of whom, as appears by the paling of their armes, are
the Hicks of Beverston Castle in Glocester descended; . . . ." Later
this quoted manuscript describes the Hicks arms as "gu. a fesse wavy,
between three fleurs-de-lis or." Chronologically it would seem to me that
this Edward would be in the generation immediately after Sir Ellis Hicks.
----------------------------------------------
Does anyone know anymore about the Hickses of Beverston Castle, and/or
the ancestry of the colonist Robert Hicks (of whom I am a descendant)?

Jared Olar
ol...@eagle.uis.edu
University Court West #127
Springfield, IL 62703-5400

[Margaret J. Olson]

For what it's worth -

: Help me who can:

: In the book SIGNERS OF THE MAYFLOWER COMPACT, by Annie Arnoux
: Haxtun, 1897-1899, reprinted 1968, page 104, there is a pedigree of the

Volume 2 of The Great Migration Begins, 1620-1633 has 4+ pages on Robert
HICKS. Under COMMENTS: Anderson says: "The major breakthrough on this
family was made when Robert S. Wakefield discovered additional baptismal
entries in the St. Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey, register [TAG 51:57-58].

Under BIBLIOGRAPHIC NOTE: In 1938 Louis Effingham deForest compiled a
comprehensive summary of all that was known about Robert Hicks at that
date [Moore Anc 295-308].

[Moore Anc] is: L. Effingham deForest and Anne Lawrence deForest, _Moore and
Allied Families: The Ancestry of William Henry Moore_ New York 1938.

Anderson doesn't have any other information on the Hicks ancestry.

[rblo...@gmail.com]

My grandmother's father was a Hicks. Do you need help with the geniology of the Hicks? Because everything you have said is write. email me: pmbr...@eagles.usi.edu

[wjhonson]

Yes it's muddled. See

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/middx-county-records/vol4/pp329-349

[Steve Riggan]

I am a descendant of John Hicks and Herodias Long of New England myself, but the line beyond John might go another generation or two reliably. We're not sure if he was any relation to the other families who settled in New England. He and his wife Herodias came from London to the New World in the 1600's but we have never established his line earlier. The links to English nobility are likely unreliable as I have seen many, many of these attempts at attaching the American Hicks to the family of Ellis Hicks. I have never seen proof of this connection so I would not put a lot of stock in it unless more credible evidence emerges. I wish I could say different, but the evidence has not so far been there. Baptist Hicks, 1st Viscount Camden's grandson Baptist Noel, 3rd Viscount, was married to Hester Wotton who was a cousin to my mother's family in England, so this was one of our connections to the Hicks family completely independent of my American Hicks line.

Steve Riggan

Sent from my iPad

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[wjhonson]

There is a question in my mind about whether a person called Ellis Hicks Knt ever even existed at all.

But there is a source, however unreliable

https://books.google.com/books?id=FM8UAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA2685#v=onepage&q&f=false

[bradley.j...@gmail.com]

Hello Mr., Riggan, My name is Bradley Johnson and also my family are also descendants from John Hicks And Herodias Long. It is through their son Thomas Hicks, the husband of Mary Doughty. Whenever you receive this email, can you please reply back to me, and also I will appreciate it.

Thank you and Sincerely, Bradley Johnson

[jillain...@gmail.com]

A small group of us over at Wikitree did some digging into this very question. See:

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/617264/did-sir-ellis-hicks-exist

Turns out there actually was a Sir Ellis Hicks, but he was knighted in the 1600s, not the 1300s. A mid-life portrait was painted of him, he's clearly wearing 17th century armor-- not 14th-- and it is believed that the family somehow decided he was a far older (as in 300 years older) gentleman. We wonder if there actually was an earlier 14th century Hicks knight by another name, but it certainly wasn't Ellis.

[joe...@gmail.com]

On Friday, June 8, 2018 at 9:28:46 AM UTC-4, jillain...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 4:30:04 PM UTC-4, wjhonson wrote:
> > There is a question in my mind about whether a person called Ellis Hicks Knt ever even existed at all.
> >
> > But there is a source, however unreliable
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=FM8UAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA2685#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> A small group of us over at Wikitree did some digging into this very question. See:
>
> https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/617264/did-sir-ellis-hicks-exist
>
> Turns out there actually was a Sir Ellis Hicks, but he was knighted in the 1600s, not the 1300s. A mid-life portrait was painted of him, he's clearly wearing 17th century armor-- not 14th--

Too funny. Portraiture was not common in the 1300s. At all. King Edward III was the richest man in England and ruled for half a century and I don't think there is a single portrait of him?

--Joe