Baldwin I of Flanders - part 4 of 4
Stewart Baldwin
Begin part 4 of 4
Falsely attributed great-grandfather (existence uncertain): Lideric,
said to have d. 836, buried at Harlebeck ["836. Lidricus comes obiit
et Arlabeka sepelitur.", Annales Blandinensis, MGH SS 5: 23], count
[of Harlebeck, Genealogia comitum Flandriae Bertiniana, MGH SS 9:
305].
Falsely attributed grandfather: Ingelramn, living 875, evidently d.
before 883, count of Noyon, Vermandois, Artois, Courtrai, and
Flanders, before 853-870×5, chamberlain of king Charles the Bald, m.
Friderada, who m. (2) Bernarius, d. 883; and m. (3) Hugues, son of
king Lothair II.
Count Engilramnus is indicated as having authority over these five
regions in a capitulary of emperor Lothair I and king Charles the Bald
in November 853 ["Imino episcopus, Adelardus abba, Waltcaudus,
Odelricus, missi in Noviomiso, Vermendiso, Adertiso, Curtriciso,
Flandra, comitatibus Engilramni, et in comitatibus Waltcaudi." MGH
Leg. 1: 426]. He is referred to as abbot or count by an entry in
Annales Blandinensis under the year 856 (not necessarily
contemporary), recording the donation of land by a certain Heribert,
but he does not appear in the (possibly imcomplete) list of abbots in
Catalogus abbatus Blandinensium [MGH SS 13: 645]. He appears also in a
capitulary of Charles the Bald on 21 March 858 [MGH Leg. 1: 457], and
Charles made a pact with his brother Louis (Ludwig) "the German" in
864, he was named (along with Hincmar of Reims) as a guarantor on the
behalf of king Charles [Annales Fuldenses, MGH SS 1: 378]. In 868, he
was sent with gifts to king Salomon of Brittany [Annales Bertiniani,
MGH SS 1: 480], and he acted as a guarantor again in 870 [capitulary
of a meeting of Charles and Louis, 6 March 870, MGH Leg. 1: 516]. In
875, having been deprived of his honors due to the influence of queen
Richilde, he persuaded Louis to devastate the kingdom of Charles
["Hludovicus vero, persuadente Engelranno, quondam Caroli regis
camerario et domestico, suasione Richildis reginae ab honoribus
deiecto et a sua familiaritate abiecto, cum hoste et filio aequivico
suo Hludowico usque ad Attiniacum venit; ad quem obsistendum primores
regni Caroli iubente Richilde regina sacramento se confirmaverunt;
quod non attenderunt, sed ex sua parte regnum Caroli pessindantes,
hostili more devastaverunt." Annales Bertiniani, s.a. 875, MGH SS 1:
498; Annales Blandinenses, MGH SS 5: 23 (quoted above)]. The
information on Ingelramn's wife and child comes from Regino's
chronicle for the year 883, which states that in that year, Hugues
(son of king Lothair II) ordered a certain noble named Bernarius to be
killed, and then married his widow. Regino also states that before
being united to Bernarius, she had been married to the potens vir
Ingelramn, by whom they had a daughter who was later married to count
Richwin ["Hoc etiam tempore idem Hugo [son of Lothair II] Wicbertum
comitem, qui ab ineunte aetate sibi faverat, interfecit; paucis dehinc
interpositis diebus, Bernarium, nobilem virum sibique fidelissimum,
dolo trucidari iussit, pulchritudine illius captus uxoris, quam absque
momento sibi in matrimonium iungit. Vocabatur autem mulier Friderada,
quae antequam Bernario sociaretur, copulata fuerat Engilramno potenti
viro, ex quo filiam peperit, quam postmodum Richwinus comes in
coniugium accepit, quam etiam propter stuprum commissum idem comes
decollari iussit." Regino, s.a. 883, MGH SS 1: 594].
Possible father (unproven, existence uncertain): Odoacer/Audacer.
While the lack of evidence predating the eleventh century suggests
caution, there are no strong reasons for rejecting the name, as there
are with the alleged links to Ingelramn and Lideric. If the name is
correct, nothing further is known of him, except for the uncertain
possibility that there is something to the very late story mentioned
above that Odoacer obtained hunting rights from abbot Einhard
(826-844).
Falsely attributed daughter: Guinidilda, m. Guifred, count of
Barcelona.
Gesta comitum Barcinonensium (written about 1290) states that Guifred
impregnated a daughter (unnamed) of the count of Flanders (also
unnamed) and later married her [see RHF 9: 68]. Later authors have
expanded the story to identify this girl with Guifred's known wife
Guinidilda, with the count of Flanders in question being variously
identified as Baldwin I [] or Baldwin II [Anselme 2: 714]. There is no
good reason to accept this late source on this point.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bibliography
Anselme = Père Anselme, Histoire généalogique et chronologique de la
maison royale de France, 9 vols (Paris, 1726-33).
Gen. Com. Fland. = L. C. Bethmann, ed., Genealogiae Comitum Flandriae,
MGH SS 9: 302-336.
MGH Leg. = Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Leges series.
MGH SS = Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores series.
Vanderkindere (1902) = Léon Vanderkindere, La Formation Territoriale
des Principautes Belge au Moyen Age (2 vols., 2nd ed., Brussels, 1902,
reprinted 1981).
End part 4 of 4
Stewart Baldwin
Nathaniel Taylor
Stewart Baldwin <sba...@mindspring.com> wrote:
<...>
> Falsely attributed daughter: Guinidilda, m. Guifred, count of
> Barcelona.
> Gesta comitum Barcinonensium (written about 1290) states that Guifred
> impregnated a daughter (unnamed) of the count of Flanders (also
> unnamed) and later married her [see RHF 9: 68]. Later authors have
> expanded the story to identify this girl with Guifred's known wife
> Guinidilda, with the count of Flanders in question being variously
> identified as Baldwin I [] or Baldwin II [Anselme 2: 714]. There is no
> good reason to accept this late source on this point.
Stewart, I would just point out that the early chapters of the Gesta
comitum Barcinonensium (with the legend of Guifred the Hairy & his
Flemish adventure) were written just after 1162, though this doesn't
alter the dismissal of Guinidilda 'of Flanders'.
As always, these pages are unique and inspiring. If those of us who
have the primary sources at hand could try to write just one or two
pages in this style, we would do much to revive the aura of collegiality
and value that this group seemed to offer back in the mid 90s.
Nat Taylor
Jeffrey B. Gibson
I am trying to nail down the knighting date of Sir Richard Grenville (d.
1591). Some sources I have list the knighting date as 1577 -- which could be
late 1576 as the rolls are done on the "New Year". However, I have also
found documents that during earlier parliaments there was a "Sir Richard
Grenville" from the West Countries who sat in Star Chamber as early as 1573.
After looking at the Grenville genealogy, relatives, and how common the name
Richard was in Cornwall/Devon there is an outside possibility that this was
someone other than Sir Richard Grenville. But I would like to make certain
of this.
Does anyone have any evidence of Grenville's knighting earlier than
1576/77? Can anyone confirm that Grenvilee was indeed knighted in 1576/77?
Yours,
Jeffrey Gibson
--
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibs...@comcast.net
mj...@btinternet.com
Nathaniel Taylor schrieb:
Two of the best posts I have seen in ages, both on the one thread.
Things are looking up!
Michael