SP Correction: Sir James de Lindsay and Egidia Stewart
The...@aol.com
Hello All,
With regard to Sir James de Lindsay, Lord of Crawford (d. bef 11
Nov 1358) and his wife Egidia Stewart, daughter of Walter the Stewart
(half-sister to King Robert II), the account in SP states,
' A papal dispensation for this marriage was granted at
Avignon 3 Ides of April 1346, which describes the
spouses as within the third and fourth degree on the
father's side, and in the fourth degree on the mother's.
A strong inference thus arises that Sir James' grandmother,
wife of Sir Alexander, was daughter to the Steward.' [1]
This would seem a reasonable hypothesis, and is taken up in the
databases most noted on the internet [showing the wife of Sir
Alexander Lindsay as a daughter of Alexander le Steward, d. 1283, and
his wife Jean of Bute, also called Jean 'mac Sorley'], but only if
the 'third degree' relationship were that of Sir James, and not of
his wife. In fact, this is in error, and the wife of Sir Alexander
Lindsay could not be the daughter of (this particular) Alexander le
Steward.
The chronology supports this. The usual presumption is of course,
that the shorter range of generations would be that of the husband
(James in this case), but the following disprove the presumption:
(A) Walter the Stewart, father of Egidia, being a younger son
of James le Stewart, and being born at a rather late date
in James' career at that. James, whose parents were born
one in 1214, the other no later than 1211, was likely over
50 years of age at Walter's birth); and
(B) Egidia herself was a daughter of Walter le Stewart's 2nd
marriage, to Isabel Graham, and was born when her
father Walter was say 30 years of age, or possibly more
(she was first married in 1346, some 20 years after her
father's death at age 33 or 34).
(C) Egidia was a granddaughter of James le Steward; if Sir
James de Lindsay was the grandson of a daughter of the
same James le Steward, their relationship would have been
in the 2nd and 3rd degrees.
The following more correctly illustrates their relationship ' within the
third and fourth degree on the father's side ':
Alexander le Steward = Jean of Bute
_______________________I________________
I I
James le = Egidia (Giles) NN le Steward
Steward I de Burgh I
_________I I
I I
Walter the = 2) Isabel de NN = Sir Alexander
Stewart I Graham I de Lindsay
I ____________I
I I
I Sir David de = Maria
I Lindsay I Abernethy
I __________I
I I
Egidia Stewart = Sir James de Lindsay
The relationship, 'third and fourth degree on the father's side',
actually means in this case that, on their fathers' side the third
degree relationship is that of Egidia Stewart, and therefore the
fourth degree relationship is that of Sir James Lindsay, as shown
above.
Two possibilities I would suggest would resolve the missing
individuals in Sir James de Lindsay's ancestry:
1. The wife of Sir Alexander de Lindsay was an otherwise
unknown daughter of Sir John le Steward, younger brother of
James le Stewart, who died at Falkirk in 1298 (he had at
least 5 known sons, and one known daughter).
2. The wife of Sir Alexander de Lindsay was an otherwise
unknown daughter of Reginald de Crawford by a daughter of
Alexander le Steward (d. 1283). This would account for
A. The 3rd - 4th degree relationship under discussion;
B. The acquisition by Sir Alexander de Lindsay of lands in
Crawford (these were first acquired by Sir Alexander,
following whom the best known Lindsay holding was
Crawford - hence his descendants, the Earls thereof);
C. The occurrence of Reginald de Lindsay, a son of
Sir Alexander de Lindsay and younger brother of Sir
James (SP Vol III, p. 9).
Any added documentation, comment or criticism is welcome. Also,
if anyone has a solution to the other relationship in this
dispensation (Sir James and Egidia were related in 'the fourth degree
on the mother's [side]'), I would be glad to hear of it.
Good luck, and good hunting.
John *
NOTES
[1] The Scots Peerage, Sir James Balfour Paul, ed. Vol III
(Lindsay, Earl of Crawford), p. 11, citing Papal Letters,
iii. 225.
* John P. Ravilious
Diane Sheppard
> Wednesday, 11 June, 2003
Thanks for your interesting analysis of the relationships. Based on
the three reasons stated in its support, solution 2 appears to be the
best answer. Which Reginald de Crawford do you propose as Alexander's
father-in-law? The one executed in February 1307 with Alexander and
Thomas Bruce at Carlisle? or his father?
While pondering your potential solutions, and trying to find
supporting facts, I found some interesting facts about Alexander that
are not noted in SP, or expand on SP's information. Although none of
them add to the solution to the relationships between the Lindsays and
the Stewarts, I hope you and the group find the biographical
information interesting:
1. DNB's biography of James Stewart, 5th Steward notes that when
Stewart's lands were forfeited on August 31, 1298, Edward I granted
the lands to Alexander Lindsay (DNB, vol. 18, p. 1181).
2. From "Robert Bruce and The Community of The Realm of Scotland," by
Geoffrey W. S. Barrow, referring to 1304, "Sir John Comyn, Sir
Alexander Lindsay, Sir David Graham and Sir Simon Fraser shall exert
themselves until 20 days after Christmas to capture Sir William
Wallace and hand him over to the king, who will watch to see how each
of them conducts himself so that he can do the most favour to whoever
shall capture Wallace, with regard to exile or legal claims or
expiation of past misdeeds." p. 130
3. Also from Barrow, "Lindsay had been a leader of the revolt in 1297
but seems to have been briefly in Edward I's peace after Falkirk, but
soon forfeited. In 1305, he was regarded by Edward as having been a
prominent enemy, and he was among those present with Bruce when Comyn
was murdered on February 10th, 1306" (p. 358, note 79).
4. In 1306, after Bruce's defeat by John MacDougall at Dail Righ,
Alexander Lindsay, the Earl of Atholl, Neil Bruce and Robert Boyd were
given the responsibility of escorting the Queen, Marjorie Bruce and
the other women through the mountains of Atholl to Kildrummy. Barrow,
p. 160.
Thanks again for your post,
Diane Sheppard