Sir Richard de Draycott (d. ca. 1268) and the identity of 'Lady Orabilie'
The...@aol.com
Dear Robert, Rosie, Doug, Chris, Cris, Leo, Ian, et al.,
Sir Richard de Draycott of Paynsley, co. Staffs (d. ca. 1268) is
known to have been the ancestor of a goodly progeny by his first wife
Aliva de Legh, including Queen Elizabeth II and the emigrant Henry
Sewall (d. bef 17 Apr 1665) [1].
An interesting record has come to light on the PRO site, which
provides some interesting details concerning Sir Richard's descendants,
and his 3rd wife, Orabel/Orabilis:
_________________________________________
Reference: D231M/T319
Creation dates: early 13th century
Scope and Content
Gift (and transcript) by Philip, Lord of Draycot to Lady Orabilie once
wife of Lord Richard his father, of all his land with all appurtenances
in the villein of Kalton for homage and service, and two oaks of his
wood of Wyston "in the view (visum) of his forester": to be held by
Lady Orabilie her heirs and assigns except for monks and Jews, paying
annually a pair of white gloves for all services and suit of court:
for this gift the Lady Orabilie will marry her daughter Letitia to
Philip's eldest son Richard
Witnesses: Lord William de Kaveswall, [Caverswall] then Sheriff of
Stafford and Salop, Philip de Leg [Leigh], William de Chetilton
[Cheddleton], Richard Basset, William de Yppeston [Ipstones] Ralph
Basset, Roger de Vernay, Thomas de Kersewall, Henry de Brad, Richard
de Fowall and others " [2]
_________________________________________
The relationships between these individuals, based upon preexisting
knowledge and the information given in the above gift, indicates that
Orabel (3rd wife of Sir Richard de Draycott), also called 'the Lady
Orabilie' above, was married [likely 2ndly] to Robert de Beke, of Tene,
co. Staffs. She was the mother of his daughter and heiress Letitia, or
Lettice, who married Sir Richard's grandson and namesake:
<1> <2 ?>
1) Aliva = Sir Richard = 3) Orabel/ = Robert de
de Legh I de Draycott Orabilis I Beke
I d. ca. 1268 I
______I____________________ I
I I I I
Sir Philip = Alice [siblings] I
de Draycott I I
d. bef 8 I______________ I
Jul 1294 I I
Sir Richard = Lettice (Letitia)
de Draycott I de Beke
b. ca. 1271; I
d. 1321/2 I
V
Now that 'Lady Orabilie' is placed in the ancestry of QE II, it
will be of extreme interest in establishing her own identity further,
and her ancestry. The only individuals I see bearing this name ca.
1150-1250 are Orabella (or Orabilis) of Leuchars, heiress of Leuchars,
Tranent, Lathrisk, Beith and Nesgask in Scotland (called 'comitissa de
Mar' in CP), wife of Robert de Quincy and mother of Saier de Quincy, of
Long Buckby, co. Northants., 1st Earl of Winchester and Surety of the
Magna Carta (d. 3 Nov 1219). These are:
1. Orabella/Arabella de Quincy, wife of Sir Richard de Harcourt.
2. Orabilia/Arabella de Harcourt, granddaughter of #1, wife
of Henry de Pembrugge.
Perhaps additional evidence will place 'Lady Orabilie' in the same
family circle. As always, such evidence, and any relevant comment or
criticism, is welcome.
~ The descent of Queen Elizabeth II from Sir Richard de
Draycott will appear in the next post in this thread.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] Robert O'Connor, "DRAYCOTT of PAYNSLEY". This and additional
sources will be cited in the pedigree appearing in the next
post.
[2] PRO, Derbyshire Record Office: Okeover of Okeover [D231M/T -
D231M/M], D231M/T319
* John P. Ravilious
The...@aol.com
Hello All,
Following is the promised descent (2 actually) from Sir Richard
de Draycott to QE II.
Cheers,
John
______________________________
1 Sir Richard de Draycott
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1200[1]
Death: ca 1268[1]
Father: Hugh de Draycott
Knt., of Paynsley, co. Staffs.
he m. 1stly Aliva de Legh,
2ndly _______,
3rdly Orabel (or Orabilis)[1]
Spouse: Aliva de Legh[1]
Father: Robert de Legh
Children: Sir Philip (-<1294)
Roger
Richard
Other Spouses Orabel ['Lady Orabilie'; SEE BELOW]
1.1 Sir Philip de Draycott
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 8 Jul 1294[1]
of Paynsley, co. Staffs.
'Legal actions taken by his wife after his death show that he held
estates in Butterdon, Kingsley, Leigh, Orslow and Whiston, co. Staffs.
and in Draycott and Calton, co. Derby.'[1]
" Gift (and transcript) by Philip, Lord of Draycot to Lady Orabilie once
wife of Lord Richard his father, of all his land with all appurtenances
in the villein of Kalton for homage and service, and two oaks of his
wood of Wyston "in the view (visum) of his forester": to be held by
Lady Orabilie her heirs and assigns except for monks and Jews, paying
annually a pair of white gloves for all services and suit of court:
for this gift the Lady Orabilie will marry her daughter Letitia to
Philip's eldest son Richard.
Witnesses: Lord William de Kaveswall, [Caverswall] then Sheriff of
Stafford and Salop, Philip de Leg [Leigh], William de Chetilton
[Cheddleton], Richard Basset, William de Yppeston [Ipstones] Ralph
Basset, Roger de Vernay, Thomas de Kersewall, Henry de Brad, Richard
de Fowall and others "
- PRO, Derbyshire Record Office: Okeover of Okeover [D231M/T -
D231M/M], D231M/T319 [3]
Spouse: Alice Colevyle
Death: bef Apr 1301[1]
Children: Sir Richard (ca1250-1321)
1.1.1 Sir Richard de Draycott
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1250[1]
Death: 1321[1]
Knt., of Paynsley, co. Staffs.
summoned for military service in Flanders, 1297, and in 1298 and 1301
against the Scots[1]
Spouse: Lettice de Beke
Death: ca 1280[1]
Father: Robert de Beke, of Tene, co. Staffs.
Mother: Orabel [ 'Lady Orabilie' ]
Children: Sir Philip (-1308)
Sir Robert (ca1271->1330) [ SEE 1.1.1.2 BELOW ]
1.1.1.1 Sir Philip de Draycott
----------------------------------------
Death: 1308, d.v.p.[1]
Knight
d.v.p.[1]
Spouse: Joan Deincourt
Father: Sir Edmund Deincourt (>1249-1326)
Mother: Isabel de Mohun
Marr: 1302[1]
Children: Sir John (ca1303->1368)
1.1.1.1.1 Sir John de Draycott
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1303[1]
Death: aft 1368[1]
Knt., of Paynsley, co. Staffs.
knighted probably before 1324
took part in the abduction of Margaret de Audley by Ralph, Lord Stafford in
1336
M.P. for Staffordshire, 1334, 1344, 1348, 1355, 1358, 1360 and 1368
summoned for service overseas in 1346; fought at the Battle of Crecy, 1346
present at the siege of Calais, 1356[1]
Spouse: NN
Children: John (-<1399)
1.1.1.1.1.1 John de Draycott
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1399[1]
of Paynsley, co. Staffs.
Spouse: Joan de Stafford
Father: Sir John de Stafford (ca1302-<1373), of Amblecote and Bramshall
Mother: Margaret de Stafford, dau. of Ralph, 1st Earl of Stafford
Children: John (-1422)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1 John Draycott
----------------------------------------
Death: 1422[1]
of Paynsley, co. Staffs.
Spouse: Agnes Gascoigne
Children: Sir Roger (ca1400-)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Sir Roger Draycott
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1400[2]
Knt., of Paynsley, co. Staffs.
Escheator of Staffordshire., 1452/3
J.P. for Staffordshire, 1453-60
M.P. for Staffordshire, 1459, 1460 and 1470/1
proscribed as a rebel (Lancastrian supporter), 1470[1]
D260/M/T/5/7 - date: 15th - 17th Centuries
With this bundle is a further deed, being a letter of attorney by Humphrey
Stafford, son and heir of Humphrey, Duke of Buckingham, Roger Draycote,
Robert Nowell, Roger B[ ], Peter Rokeley, to William Skynner, to grant
to Elizabeth widow of Henry Barker peaceful possession of all his lands,
tenements, rents and services in Bednall, Acton and Brocton. 1455'
- PRO, Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent Archive Service, Staffordshire
Record Office: Records of the Littleton Family of Teddesley and
Hatherton, Barons Hatherton [3]
Spouse: Joan Aston
Birth: ca 1402[2]
Father: Sir Roger Aston (-1446), of Haywood, Brocton and Tixall, co. Staffs.
Mother: Joyce Freville (-<1418)
Children: Jane
Roger (->1494)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Jane Draycott
----------------------------------------
2nd wife[4],[5]
Spouse: Thomas Noel, of Hilcote and Newbold, co. Staffs.
Death: aft 1450[4]
Father: Richard Noel (->1432)
Mother: Sibillla
Children: Robert (->1478)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Robert Noel
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 1478[4]
of Hilcote and Newbold, parish of Chebsey, co. Staffs.
sued for the manor of Newbold against his sister Isabel and Thomas Chetwode,
1466[4]
Spouse: Maud Brereton[4]
Father: William Brereton (ca1419-), of Burras, co. Denbigh
Mother: Katherine Wilde
Children: James (-1546)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 James Noel
----------------------------------------
Death: 1546[4]
of Hilcote, parish of Chebsey, co. Staffs.
a feoffee for his cousin, Sir John Draycott, by deed dated 8 Aug 1512
nominated one of the Justices of the Peace for assessing and collecting
the poll tax, 1513[4],[6]
see pedigree of Noel, Earls of Gainsborough [Dormant...Peerages, pp.
402-403][6]
Spouse: Cecily Pole
Father: Henry Pole (ca1480->1521), of Kirk Langley and Chesterfield,
co. Derby
Mother: Ursula Twyford
Children: Arthur
Robert (ca1510->1561)
Andrew (ca1512-1562)
Anthony
Leonard
Humphrey
Dorothy
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Andrew Noel
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1512[4]
Death: 31 Jan 1562[4]
of Dalby, co. Leics. and Whitewell, co. Rutland
Sheriff of Rutland, 1537[4]
called 'my cousin' in the will of his uncle Henry Pole, of Kirk Langley,
dated 18 Apr 1558[7]
Spouse: Elizabeth Hopton
Children: Sir Andrew (-1607)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Sir Andrew Noel
----------------------------------------
Death: 19 Oct 1607[4]
Spouse: Mabel Harrington[4]
Children: Edward (-1643)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Edward Noel
----------------------------------------
Death: 8 Mar 1643[4]
Occ: Baron Noel, and Viscount Campden
2nd Viscount Campden on his father-in-law's death[4]
Spouse: Juliana Hicks
Father: Baptist Hicks (-1629)
Children: Baptist (-1682)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Baptist Noel
----------------------------------------
Death: 29 Oct 1682[4]
Occ: Baron Noel, and Viscount Campden
2nd Baron Noel, and 3rd Viscount Campden
Children: Edward (-1689)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Edward Noel
----------------------------------------
Death: 1689[4]
Occ: Earl of Gainsborough
created Earl of Gainsborough, 1 Dec 1682[4]
Spouse: Elizabeth Wriothesley[4]
Father: Thomas Wriothesley
Children: Wriothesley (-1690)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Wriothesley Noel
----------------------------------------
Death: 21 Sep 1690[4]
Occ: Earl of Gainsborough
Spouse: Catherine Greville[4]
Children: Elizabeth
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Elizabeth Noel
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Henry Bentinck, Duke of Portland
Death: 1726[4]
Children: William (-1762)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 William Bentinck
----------------------------------------
Death: 1762[4]
Occ: Duke of Portland
Children: William (-1809)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 William Cavendish-Bentinck
----------------------------------------
Death: 1809[4]
Occ: Duke of Portland
changed name due to marriage
Spouse: Dorothy Cavendish
Father: William Cavendish (1720-1764), 4th Duke of Devonshire
Mother: Charlotte Boyle
Children: William Charles (-1826)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 William Charles Cavendish-Bentinck
----------------------------------------
Death: 1826[4]
Spouse: Anne Wellesley
Children: Rev. Charles William (-1865)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Rev. Charles William
Cavendish-Bentinck
----------------------------------------
Death: 1865[4]
Spouse: Caroline Burnaby[4]
Children: Nina Cecilia
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Nina Cecilia
Cavendish-Bentinck
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Claude Bowes-Lyon, Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
Death: 1938[4]
Children: Elizabeth (1900-)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1900[4]
aka the Queen Mother
Spouse: George VI, King of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Death: 1952
Father: George V, King of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Mother: Mary of Teck
Children: Elizabeth II
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Elizabeth II of the
United Kingdom
----------------------------------------
Occ: Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland 1952 -
Spouse: Philip Mountbatten, Duke of Edinburgh
1.1.1.2 Sir Robert de Beke [ SEE ABOVE ]
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1271[1]
Death: aft 4 Mar 1330[1]
of Tene, co. Staffs.
inherited the lands of his mother, and adopted her name
seised of the manor of Munslow, co. Salop, 1312
summoned to attend a council of the King at Westminster, 1324
witness to a deed of Isabel Basset, 4 Mar 1330[1]
Spouse: Elizabeth
Children: Sir Robert (-1346)
1.1.1.2.1 Sir Robert de Beke
----------------------------------------
Death: 1346[1]
of Tene, co. Staffs. and Hopton, co. Salop
summoned to attend at Roxburgh for military service, 24 Dec 1334[1]
Spouse: Mary[1]
Children: Sir Nicholas (-1369)
1.1.1.2.1.1 Sir Nicholas de Beke
----------------------------------------
Death: 1369[4]
of Hopton, co. Salop and Tene, co. Staffs.
fought at the Battle of Crecy, 1346; also at the siege of Calais, 1347
served in the retinue of Ralph, Earl of Stafford, 1359[1]
2nd husband of Margaret de Stafford[4]
Spouse: Joan de Stafford
Father: Ralph de Stafford (1301-1372), 1st Earl of Stafford
Mother: Katherine de Hastang (-<1336)
Children: Elizabeth (-<1374)
1.1.1.2.1.1.1 Elizabeth de Beke
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1374[8]
identified as daughter of Sir Nicholas de Beke and Joan de Stafford in
pedigree of Stafford[9]
Spouse: Sir Robert de Swinnerton
Death: bef 12 Nov 1396[10]
Father: Sir Thomas de Swinnerton (-1361)
Mother: Maud de Holand (->1363)
Marr: bef 1357[8]
Children: Maud (ca1370-)
1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1 Maud de Swinnerton
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1370[10]
m. lstly Humphrey de Peshale,
2ndly Sir William de Ipstones,
3rdly Sir John Savage of Clifton (d. 1450)[10],[11]
Spouse: Sir William de Ipstones
Birth: bef 23 Feb 1373[12]
Death: 17 Oct 1399[13],[12]
Father: Sir John de Ipstones (-1394)
Mother: Elizabeth Corbet (ca1357->1423)
Marr: Dec 1388[8]
Children: Alice (ca1396-)
Christiana (ca1393-)
1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1 Alice de Ipstones
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1396[12]
heiress of her father[13]
identified as wife of Randle Brereton, and mother of his heir Randle
(pedigree of Brereton of Honford)[14]
identified as ".... d. to ..... Ipstons of Ipstons in Comitatu Staff. "
[Pedigree of Brereton of Malpas, Visitation of Cheshire (1580)][15]
Spouse: Randle Brereton
Death: aft 1436[13]
Father: Sir William Brereton (-ca1381)
Mother: Margaret Done
Children: Randle (ca1417->1468)
William (ca1419-)
1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1 William Brereton
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1419[13]
of Burras, co. Denbigh
Pedigree of Brereton of Malpas [Harl. 1424, fo. 17] states :
" William Brereton of Burres in Com. Denbigh "[15]
" Wm Brereton of Borras = Catrin " [Bartrum IV:889, Tudur Trefor 20[16]]
identified as William Brereton of Burros[17]
Spouse: Katherine Wilde
Father: Thomas Wilde
Mother: Angharad ferch Ieuan
Marr: ca 1440[13]
Children: Maud
Edward
1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Maud Brereton[4]
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Robert Noel [ SEE ABOVE ]
Death: aft 1478[4]
Father: Thomas Noel (->1450)
Mother: Jane Draycott
Children: James (-1546)
SOURCES
1. Pedigree, Draycott of Paynsley
Descent from Hugh de Draycott of Paynsley, co. Staffs.
comp. by Robert O'Connor, roco...@es.co.nz
2. "International Genealogical Index," IGI:
3. "Public Record Office Archives," http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/
4. Pedigree, Noel of Hilcote
Descent from Robert Noel, of Ellenhall, co. Staffs.
comp. by Robert O'Connor, roco...@es.co.nz
5. John Burke, Esq., "A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Commoners
of Great Britain and Ireland," Genealogy.com Family Archive Image
(Notable British Families), Vol. I, pp. 533-534 (Salvain), 488 (Dugdale),
part of compiled work, Burke's American Families with British Ancestry,
(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company, 1975).
6. "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages," Burke's Peerage, from
Genealogy.com Family History: Notable British Families, p. 460 (Ros).
7. Pedigree, Pole of Radbourne
Descent from John de la Pole
comp. by Robert O'Connor, roco...@es.co.nz
8. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet," Jan 20, 2003, email
9. Pedigree of Stafford, Earls of Stafford
Descent from Robert de Stafford
comp. by Robert O'Connor, roco...@es.co.nz
10. Frederick L. Weis, Th. D., "The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215,"
Baltimore: Gen Pub Co., 5th ed., 1997 (W. L. Sheppard Jr & David Faris).
11. Pedigree, Swynnerton of Swynnerton
Descent from John de Swynnerton
comp. by Robert O'Connor, roco...@es.co.nz
12. Pedigree, Ipstones of Ipstones and Blymhill
Descent from William de Ipstones
comp. by Robert O'Connor, roco...@es.co.nz
13. Pedigree, Brereton of Brereton
Descent from Sir William de Brereton
comp. by Robert O'Connor, roco...@es.co.nz
14. "Baronetcies of England, Ireland and Scotland," Burke's, online:
FamilyTreeMaker.com (extr 11/14/2000).
15. "The Visitation of Cheshire," Harleian Series, Vol. 18, Vol. 18, pp.
43 et seq. [Brereton of Malpas].
16. Peter C. Bartrum, "Welsh Genealogies, AD 300 - 1400," University of
Wales Press, 1974, re: Dafydd Llwyd of Crewe, cites MS Peniarth 135:118,
and MS Peniarth 128:170a (Vol. IV p. 889, Tudur Trefor 20).
17. "'The Manor and Parish of Blymhill'," Collections for a History of
Staffordshire, The William Salt Archaeological Society, Birmingham:
Houghton and Hammond, Scotland Passage, Vol. I (1880).
Peter Sutton
The most comprehensive account of the Draycott family was written by William
Fowler Carter and contained in Volume 1925 (pages 70 to 153) of the
"Collection for a History of Staffordshire" published by The William Salt
Archaeological Society.
Orabilis or Orabella (Arabella) was the 3rd wife of Sir Richard de Draycott.
After Sir Richard's death she married as her third husband Sir William
Wyther, Kt.
Her 1st husband was Robert de Bec (son of Robert de Bec & his wife
Lettice)(See Collections for a History of Staffordshire
Vol XII, (NS), 1909 - Chetwynd's History of Pirehill - Hundred, Part I. -
pages 139-141 for details and pedigree of Bec of Tean and Hopton).
Their daughter Lettice married Sir Richard de Draycott (eldest son of Sir
Philip de Draycott). This Sir Richard appears to have been born between
1245-1250.
Lettice de Bec was the daughter and heiress of Robert de Bek and Orabel.
Robert was Uncle and heir of Gilbert Bek of Tene. When she was under age,
Lettice was in ward to William Wyther (her Mother's 3rd husband)(both serial
litigants!!).
Lettice died before Michaelmas 1292 and her husband Richard de Draycott was
living and held her lands by the courtesy of England, having had children by
her. She was also heiress of Orabel her mother. This is shown by a De
Banco suit of 1369 in which Lettice's lineal heir Sir Nicholas Bek
specifically claimed as heir of Orabel, tracing his heirship through Lettice
her daughter and heir.
As far as the origin of Orabel is concerned Carter makes the following
comment.
The wife who survived him (Sir Richard de Draycott d. c. 1268)) was Orabilis
or Orabella a name identical I presume with the more modern "Arabella". Of
her birth I know nothing except that in 1276 she was called "sister" by a
certain Sarra de Thene. Sara had only married into the junior Tean line. I
(Carter) suggest however that she was an Okeover, sister of Sir Robert de
Okeover who died about 1282 leaving a daughter Arabella. If so. Orabella's
siser Sarra de Tean probably derived her Christian name from her grandmother
Sarra de Chandos, wife of an earlier Sir Robert de Okeover (see SHS NS VII
p. 180 etc.). The relationship suggested would explain the presence of
Philip de Draycott's grant (which you have quoted) amongst the Okeover
Charters.
Hope this is of some assistance
Regards
Peter Sutton
conaught2
Thank you,
Margaret
Chris Phillips
You can find a list of the contents of the series "Collections for a History
of Staffordshire" here:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Bibliography/CHS.html
Chris Phillips
conaught2
Thank you very the helpful information. I am researching the Dowdall family. The Dowdall (originally from Normandy) who arrived in Ireland shortly after Strongbow came from Staffordshire. My primary research is in Ireland, and I recently learned that the Dowdalls came from Staffordshire. The Dowdalls were land agents for the de Verdun family in Ireland.
Peter Sutton kindly resent me the information regarding the history of Staffordshire.
"Collection for a History of Staffordshire" published by The William Salt Archaeological Society. He was referring to a comprehensive account of the Draycott family.
Thank you,
Margaret Kristich
Sutliff
I believe the Dowdall family is also covered in:
_A History of the County of Dublin : The People, Parishes and Antiquities
from the Earliest Times to the Close of the Eighteenth Century_ by Francis
Elrington Ball (Dublin: A. Thorn, 1902-1920 (Six Volumes). This is on my
wish list so I cannot yet vouch for its validity.
_The Ussher Memorials_ also has slight information on the Dowdalls, but only
the descent for three generations to Eleanor, wife of Thomas FitzWilliam of
Merrion, Bray and Baggotrath d. 1517.
Henry Sutliff
""conaught2"" <cona...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:02c101c43e84$df962220$116bbd44@conaught2...
Nick Webborn
Many thanks
Nick Webborn CBE