Lucy, Lucy, Lucy

[Benjamin Hertzel]

Hello,

I have high hopes that someone can help me with my Lucys...

I have three Maud Lucys, but no idea how they connect:

Maud Lucy, married to Nicholas Segrave (died ca. 1295) - parents of
Eleanor, John & Matilda.

Maud Lucy, married to Walter FitzRobert de Clare (died ca. 1198) - parents
of Robert & Alice.

Maud Lucy, married to Henry Percy (died 1408) - no children listed. Also
married to Gilbert Umfreville (died ca. 1381) - parents of Robert.

Are these three Maud Lucys related?

Thanks for any help anyone can give me.

Benjamin

[Henry Sutliff]

Benjamin Hertzel wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have high hopes that someone can help me with my Lucys...
>
> I have three Maud Lucys, but no idea how they connect:
>
> Maud Lucy, married to Nicholas Segrave (died ca. 1295) - parents of
> Eleanor, John & Matilda.
>

CP XI: 605 identifies this Maud as Maud ______. Footnote (d) on this same page
points to a genealogy of the founders of Chaucombe Priory which suggests her
name may have been Maud Lucy, but evidently this was not sufficient proof to
the editors (or the editors of CP XIV which made no change to this) to
identify her surname.

Best regards,

Henry Sutliff

[Richard Borthwick]

At 03:21 PM 17/02/99 +0800, you wrote:
>>Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:39:17 -0800 (PST)
>>Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:34:26 -0600 (CST)
>>From: Benjamin Hertzel <ja...@midas.millcomm.com>
>>Old-To: Medieval Genealogy <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
>>Subject: Lucy, Lucy, Lucy
>>Resent-Message-ID: <"fOpluD.A.mzE.Sviy2"@bl-30.rootsweb.com>
>>Resent-From: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>>X-Mailing-List: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/19853
>>X-Loop: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>>Errors-To: GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.com
>>Resent-Sender: GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.com

>>
>>
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I have high hopes that someone can help me with my Lucys...
>>
>>I have three Maud Lucys, but no idea how they connect:
>>
>>Maud Lucy, married to Nicholas Segrave (died ca. 1295) - parents of
>>Eleanor, John & Matilda.
>>

>>Maud Lucy, married to Walter FitzRobert de Clare (died ca. 1198) - parents
>>of Robert & Alice.
>>
>>Maud Lucy, married to Henry Percy (died 1408) - no children listed. Also
>>married to Gilbert Umfreville (died ca. 1381) - parents of Robert.
>>
>>Are these three Maud Lucys related?
>>
>>Thanks for any help anyone can give me.
>>
>>Benjamin
>>
>>

I have nothing to add to Henry Sutliff's comments on Segrave's wife, Maud.

Maud who married Walter fitz Robert was the dau. of Richard de Lucy
(d.1179) sometime justiciar of England by Rohese his wife. [CP V:472 note
(f); West, F J *The Justiciarship in England 1066-1232* (Cambridge U P,
1966) 37-53; I J Sanders *English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and
Descent* (Clarendon Press: Oxford, 1963 [1960]) 129 note 8]. Maud's sister,
Alice, married Odinel (II) de Umfraville (d.1182), of Prudhoe,
Northumberland. [I J Sanders *English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and
Descent* (Clarendon Press: Oxford, 1963 [1960]) 73 note 3]

Maud (d.s.p.1398) who married Gilbert de Umfraville (d.1380/81) earl of
Angus was the dau. of Thomas de Lucy (d.1365), lord Lucy by Margaret de
Multon (d.1341). This is a different (though probably related family) to
that of the justiciar. Maud was the mother of Anthony, 3rd lord Lucy. [CP
I:150, VIII:252-253]
>

[Dcrdcr4]

Maud de Lucy, wife of Nicholas de Segrave, is identified as a Lucy in an old
Segrave family pedigree, presumably the one Hap refers to in the Chaucombe
Priory. Unfortunately, her parentage is not stated in the document. However,
since the rest of the pedigree appears to be sound, there is no reason to
suppose that she was not in fact a Lucy as claimed. She was evidently the
daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy, a male line descendant of Richard de Lucy the
Justiciar. There is some evidence to support a Lucy connection. As I recall,
Maud's eldest son went on a Crusade with one of the many Geoffrey de Lucy's.
Also, I've discovered that Maud's younger son held property in Essex under a
Lucy family that descends from Robert de Lucy, brother of the Justiciar. My
guess is that this property was probably Maud's maritagium and that she
settled it on her younger son. Just how the Essex property was subinfeuded to
the junior branch of the family, I have no idea.

As for Sir Richard de Lucy, the identity of his wife Rohese has never been
established. However, she evidently was a Foliot. I found a charter in which a
churchman named Richard Foliot was called cousin by Sir Richard de Lucy's son I
think. Since the Foliots are not known to be related on the Lucy side of the
family, the kinship is presumably through Sir Richard de Lucy's wife, Rohese.

I hope that helps! Sincerely, Douglas Richardson