CP Addition: Death of Joan Cobham, wife of John de la Pole
Douglas Richardson
Complete Peerage, 3 (1913): 344-345 (sub Cobham) has an interesting
account of the life of Sir John de Cobham, 3rd Lord Cobham, a well
known statesman, who died in 1408 at advanced age. Lord Cobham was
succeeded at his death by his granddaughter and heiress, Joan Pole,
wife successively of Robert Hemenhale, Knt., Reynold Braybrook, Knt.,
Nicholas Hawberk, Knt., John Oldcastle, Knt., and John Harpden, Knt.
The editor of C.P. says little about Joan Pole's parents, except to
identify them as "Sir John de la Pole, of Chrishall, Essex" and his
wife, Joan, daughter of John de Cobham, who "d.v.p. about 1388."
I haven't found any satisfactory death date for Joan Cobham, wife of
Sir John de la Pole. However, she was clearly deceased before January
1393/4, when a chapel for a chantry founded by her father was
dedicated in St. Clement's parish, Rochester. The arrangements
creating this chantry stipulate that the chaplains there were to pray
for Lord Cobham's soul "and for the souls of the dead, viz., John atte
Pole and his wife Joan, and Margaret wife of John de Cobham."
[Reference: Arthur Hussey, Kent Chantries, Kent Archaeological Society
Records Branch, 12 (1936): 234-235]. From this document, it is
evident that Joan Cobham, wife of John de la Pole, died sometime prior
to January 1393/4.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
Stewart, Peter
> From: royala...@msn.com [mailto:royala...@msn.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2002 10:49
> To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: CP Addition: Death of Joan Cobham, wife of John de la Pole
>
> <snip>
> The editor of C.P. says little about Joan Pole's parents, except to
> identify them as "Sir John de la Pole, of Chrishall, Essex" and his
> wife, Joan, daughter of John de Cobham, who "d.v.p. about 1388."
>
> I haven't found any satisfactory death date for Joan Cobham, wife of
> Sir John de la Pole.
What about her father? Presumably CP had some reason for saying she died
before him - was he still alive by January 1393/4?
Brad Verity
> The editor of C.P. says little about Joan Pole's parents, except to
> identify them as "Sir John de la Pole, of Chrishall, Essex" and his
> wife, Joan, daughter of John de Cobham, who "d.v.p. about 1388."
Douglas,
Roskell's HOP, in its article on Sir Reynold Braybrooke, has the
following: "Since 1388 the heir to both the de la Poles of
Northamptonshire and the Cobhams of Kent had been Joan, granddaughter
of John, Lord Cobham, a supporter of the Lords Appellant. Sir
Reynold's father [Sir Gerard Braybrooke I], uncle [Robert Braybrooke,
bishop of London] and elder brother [Sir Gerard Braybrooke II]
negotiated with her in 1390 and 1391 for the purchase of the de la
Pole manors of Castle Ashby and Chadstone in Northamptonshire and
Chesterton in Huntingdonshire (for which they paid about f2,000), and
the Northamptonshire properties were then settled on Sir Reynold's
father and stepmother for term of their lives. Opportunely, when
Joan's husband Sir Robert Hemenale died in September 1391 the
Braybrookes promptly secured the marriage of the widow for Sir
Reynold, and entailed Castle Ashby and Chadstone on the couple and
their male issue."
HOP's lists its sources for the above as:
1) CP, iii. 344-6
2) CCR, 1389-92, pp. 335,434
3) CCR, 1402-5, pp. 58-59
4) CCR, 1413-19, p. 488
5) VCH Northants iv. 233
6) CPR, 1396-99, pp. 422, 430
Hope this helps. Cheers, ------Brad
Cristopher Nash
of John de la Pole> wrote --
I've long carried around a mystery re a Joan de Cobham da. of a John
de Cobham -- evidently of the generation prior to the Joan you're
addressing, Douglas. I wonder whether anyone following the line may
happen to have 'happened on' a solution to it.
According to CP IV, 289, Sir Philip Despencer (b. 6 Apr 1313, d.
22/23 Aug 1349) m. "(most probably) Joan [d. bef 15 May 1357], da of
Sir John de Cobham, of Cobham, Kent" [on chronol. grounds presumably
2d Baron, son of Henry de Cobham, 1st Baron?]. Note (b) cites Close
Rolls in which "it appears ... that Philip le Despenser (who m.
Joan), and John de Cobham, son of Henry, were arranging a marriage in
June 1339". (She would thus, I assume, be an aunt of Joan de Cobham
who m. John de la Pole.) (Material in brackets mine.)
Has anyone seen clearer evidence identifying Joan's father? And if
John de Cobham, 2d Baron, does it make this Joan the da. of his wife
(1) <Unnamed>, daughter of Warine FitzBenedict? Or (2) Joane de
Neville, daughter of Hugh de Neville? Or An Other?
Many thanks,
Cris
--
Douglas Richardson
I've seen Roskell's biography of Sir Reynold Braybrooke. He made a
couple of mistakes, but, on the whole, he did a good job covering Sir
Reynold's life history.
As you have indicated in your post, Roskell implies that Joan Pole's
mother, Joan (Cobham) de la Pole, died in 1388. The only primary
record I have seen which gives any indication of the mother's death
date is the one which I posted this past week which shows she was dead
in or before 1394. Most sources seem to be content in stating Joan
(Cobham) de la Pole died "about" 1388, without troubling to cite any
reference to back up their statement. If there is a record which
pinpoints her death to 1388, I'd like to know about it.
As was customary in this period, the de la Pole family became simply
Pole after 1400. Sir Reynold Braybrook's father-in-law was known as
John de la Pole (or atte Pole), but his wife was known as Joan Pole.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
bat...@hotmail.com (Brad Verity) wrote in message news:<8ed1b63.02081...@posting.google.com>...