John McCain

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Leo van de Pas

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Mar 22, 2008, 6:10:50 PM3/22/08
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Thanks to the work of William Addams Reitwiesner and the assistance of M. Sjostrom, I have now John McCain's line to Ann Hampden in my data base. This gives tol him quite an interesting number of medieval ancestors.

Thomas de Beauchamp, 3rd Earl of Warwick, a founding knight of the Order of the Garter
Roger Mortimer, 1st Earl of March, instrumental (apparently) in the murder of Edward II
Edward I, king of England
Gilbert de Clare, 5th Earl of Hertford, Magna Carta surety
John de Lacy. 1st Earl of Lincoln, Magna Carta surety
William de Braose, Lord of Brecknock, put to death by Llewellyn of Wales
Hugh Bigod, 3rd Earl of Norfolk, Magna Carta surety
Robert de Ros, Magna Carta surety
Henry III, king of England
Richard de Clare, 4th Earl of Hertford, Magna Carta Surety
John, King of England
Saher de Quincy, 1st Earl of Winchester, Magna Carta Surety
Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk, Magna Carta Surety
Henry de Bohun, 1st Earl of Hertford, Magna Carta Surety
Llywellyn Fawr 'the Great', Prince of Wales
Jean de Brienne, Emperor of Constantinople
Robert FitzWalter, Magna Carta Surety
William I 'the Lion', King of Scots
William d'Aubenay, Magna Carta Surety
Alfonso IX, King of Leon
Henry II, King of England
Eleanor de Poitou, Duchess of Aquitaine
Tommaso Count of Savoy
Alfonso VIII, King of Castile
Robert de Caen, 1st Earl of Gloucester
The Empress Matilda
David I 'the Saint', King of Scots
Alfonso II 'the Chaste', King of Aragon
Afonso I, King of Portugal
Louis VII King of France
Henry I King of England
Foulques V d'Anjou, King of Jerusalem
Louis VI 'the Fat', King of France
Malcolm III Canmore, king of Scots
St.Margaret of Wessex
Urraca, Queen of Castile and Leon
Garcia VI King of Navarre
William the Conqueror, king of England
Henri I king of France
Philippe I king of France
Duncan I 'the Gracious', King of Scots
Wladislaw II, King of Poland
Alfonso VI 'the Brave', king of Castile and Leon
Aethelred II 'the Unready', king of England
Robert 'the Devil', Duke of Normandy
Robert II, King of France
Jaroslav I Grand Duke of Kiev
Heinrich IV Holy Roman Emperor
Edmund II Ironside, king of England
Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar 'El Cid'
Brian Boru, King of Ireland
Hugues Capet, king of France
Olof III Skotkonung, king of Sweden
Heinrich III, Holy Roman Emperor
Bela I, King of Hungary
Lady Godiva
Malcolm II, king of Scots
Erik Segersall, King of Sweden and Denmark
Konrad II Holy Roman Emperor
St. Olav II, King of Norway
Edward I 'the Elder' king of England
Heinrich I 'the Fowler' Emperor Elect
Alfred 'the Great', king of England
Otto II, Emperor
Louis II 'the Stammerer' king of West-France
Aethelwulf, King of England
Otto I 'the Great', Emperor
Boleslaw 'the Gruesome', Duke of Bohemia
Charles 'the Bald', Emperor
Charlemagne, Emperor

And many more.
With best wishes,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia




John Foster

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Mar 22, 2008, 6:16:49 PM3/22/08
to Leo van de Pas, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
great work...I assume that he's updated his WARG version.

Speaking of Foulques V d'Anjou, King of Jerusalem

I also have him myself. He was noted as being buried in the Church of the
Holy Sepulchre, probably in the Crusader addition. With all of the
destruction, and partitioning of the Church into various sects, I wonder
whether his grave survived at all.

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John Foster

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Mar 22, 2008, 6:41:33 PM3/22/08
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Further on the Holy Sepulchre...I do not want to change the title of the
thread lest the complainers complain.

The firman or decree of 1757 controls who gets to do what, affirmed by the
Treaty of Vienna and after the British captured Jerusalem in 1917, hence the
"Cust Report", readable here.

(Cust, L. G. A., The Status Quo in the Holy Places, Ariel Publishing House,
P O Box 3328, Jerusalem, republished in 1980)

http://usahm.info/Dokumente/STATUSQUO.htm

It shows the PLAN of the church, but it is very small. A larger one may help
answer this question.

There are several of them in Google Images.

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&lr=&q=holy+sepulchre+plan+

The tomb of Joseph of Arimethea is in there.

This ladder is in front of an Armenian window, but rests on a Greek cornice.
Hence it must not be moved.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/Oracle/1631/ladder3.html

John Foster

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Mar 22, 2008, 7:27:55 PM3/22/08
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Is it somebody descended from Ann(e) Hampden that provides the hook? You
list her parents. 3 entries in rootsweb have no parents for her at all, so
you are already ahead.

Leo van de Pas

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Mar 22, 2008, 7:46:44 PM3/22/08
to John Foster, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
My own data base has the information, the website will have to wait until
April. Tuesday or Wednesday the website will be updated, but this new
information came too late to be included this time.

I am still adding to his information. If anyone can add to this below,
perhaps we can find Robert The Bruce :-)

1.Anne Hampden
died 9 April 1658

2.Griffith Hampden
died 27 October 1591
married 1565
3.Anne Cave
born 24 February 1545
died 31 December 1593

4.John Hampden
5.Elizabeth Ferrers

10.Sir Edward Ferrers
11.Constance Brome

20.Sir Henry Ferrers
died 28 December 1500
21. Margaret Heckstall

40.Sir Thomas Ferrers, of Tamworth
died 6 January 1459
41.Elizabeth Freville

42.Sir William Heckstall

80. William Ferrers, 5th Lord Ferrers of Groby
baptised 25 April 1372 Luton, Beds.
died 18 May 1445
married after 10 October 1388
81.Philippe de Clifford
died after 4 July 1405

82.Sir Baldwin Freville, of Tamworth
baptised 20 November 1368 Northfield church
died 1401
83.Maud Le Scrope

160. Henry Ferrers, 4th Lord Ferrers of Groby
born 16 February 1356 Abbey of Tiltey
died 3 February 1388
married before 27 April 1371
161.Joan de Hoo
died 30 May 1394

162.Roger de Clifford, 5th Lord Clifford
born 10 July 1333
died 13 July 1389/1390
163.Maud de Beauchamp
died 1402/1403

164.Sir Baldwin Freville, of Tamworth
born ca.1350/1351
died 30 December 1387
165 Joyce de Botetourt
died 1420

166.Stephen Le Scrope, 2nd Lord Scrope of Masham
born ca.1345
died 25 January 1405/1406
married circa 1372 (?)
167.Margery Welles
died 29 May 1422

And so on.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia

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> 4:43 PM
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Louise Staley

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Mar 22, 2008, 9:09:33 PM3/22/08
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Hello Leo and All,

Your ahnentafel shows the mother of William Ferrers, 5th Baron Ferrers
of Groby as Joan de Hoo. I thought Joan Poynings, dauther of Sir Luke
Poynings and Isabel St. John was his mother. Although I note CP says
William Ferrers was born in the manor house of Hoo so perhaps I am
wrong?

Louise Staley


On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:46:44 +1100, "Leo van de Pas"
<leov...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:

<snip>


>
>80. William Ferrers, 5th Lord Ferrers of Groby
> baptised 25 April 1372 Luton, Beds.
> died 18 May 1445
> married after 10 October 1388
>81.Philippe de Clifford
> died after 4 July 1405
>
>82.Sir Baldwin Freville, of Tamworth
> baptised 20 November 1368 Northfield church
> died 1401
>83.Maud Le Scrope
>
>160. Henry Ferrers, 4th Lord Ferrers of Groby
> born 16 February 1356 Abbey of Tiltey
> died 3 February 1388
> married before 27 April 1371
>161.Joan de Hoo
> died 30 May 1394

<snip>

AdrianBnjmBurke

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Mar 22, 2008, 10:18:05 PM3/22/08
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Leo do we know whether mccain's line to this hampden woman checks out?
who was his immigrant ancestor with the rd then?

M.Sjostrom

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Mar 22, 2008, 11:28:41 PM3/22/08
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Reitwiesner actually refers to RD600, 270


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lostc...@yahoo.com

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Mar 22, 2008, 11:48:30 PM3/22/08
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All of this making him a distant cousin to many of us in this
newsgroup....

WJho...@aol.com

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Mar 23, 2008, 1:12:14 AM3/23/08
to ret...@austin.rr.com, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com

In a message dated 3/22/2008 4:28:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
ret...@austin.rr.com writes:

Is it somebody descended from Ann(e) Hampden that provides the hook? You
list her parents. 3 entries in rootsweb have no parents for her at all, so
you are already ahead.>>


-----------------------------------------
You will find the answer in my own previous posting of Anne's ancestry.
Will Johnson

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WJho...@aol.com

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Mar 23, 2008, 2:11:31 AM3/23/08
to GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
John McCain's aunt-by-marriage or whatever she was, Mary Louise (Earle)
McCain, ascends per OWT to
John Strickland (1584-1672) whose pedigree is shown here:

_http://trees.ancestry.com/owt/pedigree.aspx?pid=124602535&st=1_
(http://trees.ancestry.com/owt/pedigree.aspx?pid=124602535&st=1)

I'm not at my office where all my notes are, but perhaps the tree can be
shown to connect back to Robert the Bruce from this point?

Evidently Mary, through her father Bayliss Earle has many already-charted
ancestral links. She at least joined the D.A.R. and the Colonial Dames through
the Earle family. I've found those records so far.

WJho...@aol.com

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Mar 23, 2008, 2:13:52 AM3/23/08
to WJho...@aol.com, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Ahhhh... better yet.
I've found an ascent for Mary Louise (Earle) McCain to the Menteith family.

Here on OWT
_http://trees.ancestry.com/owt/pedigree.aspx?pid=33054670&st=1_
(http://trees.ancestry.com/owt/pedigree.aspx?pid=33054670&st=1)

WJho...@aol.com

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Mar 23, 2008, 3:17:47 AM3/23/08
to GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
I've extracted one line by merging her DAR submission, with OWT and then
linking to Leo's data here

_http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb/index.php/Mary_Louise_Earle#Ascent_to
_Scotland_
(http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb/index.php/Mary_Louise_Earle#Ascent_to_Scotland)

M.Sjostrom

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Mar 23, 2008, 4:28:45 AM3/23/08
to GEN-ME...@rootsweb.com

Now that I remember, here's the 'The Guardian' version
of claimed pedigrees of Mary Louise Earle:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/graphic/0,,2267081,00.html


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t...@clearwire.net

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Mar 23, 2008, 9:13:47 AM3/23/08
to
On Mar 23, 1:28 am, "M.Sjostrom" <q...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Now that I remember, here's the 'The Guardian' version
> of claimed pedigrees of Mary Louise Earle:http://www.guardian.co.uk/graphic/0,,2267081,00.html
>

I note that this pedigree starts with just the kind of thing that
gives these pedigrees a bad name.

It shows William de Erleigh, Baron and King's chamberlain, son of John
de Erleigh "a lord and knight", the son of an unnamed de Erleigh, in
turn son of Herlei, "Norman knight, later a lord. Fought at Hastings."

So this would make "of Erleigh" a typical toponymic the the common Old
English -leigh (field) into a personal name of a companion of the
Conqueror.

Is it any wonder the good Doctor has a prejudice against medieval
genealogists when many of them turn out this kind of work.

taf

pj.evans

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Mar 23, 2008, 9:48:56 AM3/23/08
to

I just about bet that *that* pedigree was written up long before
anyone here was doing any research. It sounds like pretty standard
'find someone famous even if you have to invent one' genealogy to me.
(Also, I don't think an aunt-by-marriage gets McCain any connection to
the Bruce. The Ferrers line doesn't go there: it's Jeremy Clarke's
line.)

Leticia Cluff

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Mar 23, 2008, 11:46:46 AM3/23/08
to
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 06:13:47 -0700 (PDT), t...@clearwire.net
wrote:


The Old English place-name in Berkshire survives in three
different spellings, Earley Hill Road, Maiden Erlegh Lake, and
Erleigh Road:
http://www.kiff.net/erlegh/maiden.htm

It just happens that the British National Archives chose the
manor of Earley to illlustrate how to read the Domesday Book:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/domesday/discover-domesday/interpreting-domesday.htm

Here we see the name Herlei, which was then applied to an
invented Norman knight who "is believed to have been with William
'The Conqueror,' (King of England,) during his conquest of
England, whose name does not appear for some reason [!] on 'Roll
of Battle Abbey'":
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/EARLE/2002-04/1018127134

This nonsense can be found all over the Internet. Here is one
colorful example:
http://knightsandlords.com/The%20European%20Kights.htm

The Domesday Book uses the spelling Herlei for at least three
other places: Hurley in Berkshire, Hartley Wespall in Hamps, and
Warleigh in Somerset.

I wonder why no one has suggested that four diferent men named
Herlei came over with the Conqueror :-)

Tish

Douglas Richardson

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Mar 23, 2008, 12:13:18 PM3/23/08
to
On Mar 23, 6:13 am, t...@clearwire.net wrote:

> Is it any wonder the good Doctor has a prejudice against medieval
> genealogists when many of them turn out this kind of work.
>
> taf

Is it any wonder that taf has a prejudice against medieval
genealogists?

DR

t...@clearwire.net

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Mar 23, 2008, 1:37:15 PM3/23/08
to
On Mar 23, 9:13 am, Douglas Richardson <royalances...@msn.com> wrote:
> On Mar 23, 6:13 am, t...@clearwire.net wrote:
>
> > Is it any wonder the good Doctor has a prejudice against medieval
> > genealogists when many of them turn out this kind of work.

> Is it any wonder that taf has a prejudice against medieval
> genealogists?

Against 'medieval genealogists' who would make John de Erleigh the
grandson of companion Herlei? And you don't? Or are you adding your
intellectual support to this pedigree?


No, the "trained historian and genealogist" is just playing the
hypocritical git again.

taf

M.Sjostrom

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Mar 23, 2008, 7:25:17 PM3/23/08
to GEN-ME...@rootsweb.com

observe that the inestimable Thomas Monteith (and his
Dalyell and Menteith parents) have already one other
presidential line in Leo's database:
http://genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00435038&tree=LEO

It is to be hoped that those Menteiths were validly
linked to the Bruces of Airth...

The Dalyell ascent, through mother, also leads to
Robert the Bruce - there's Katherine, countess of
Craufurd, daughter of king Robert II by his second
wife Euphemia of Ross
- in this, the Airth connection is not even needed.

M.Sjostrom

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Mar 23, 2008, 7:21:00 PM3/23/08
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I just realized, for certain reason (hmm - his first
message about the entire subject) that Douggy has not
uttered anything substantial upon anything dealing
with ancestry of McCain or his aunt.
Nothing substantial, and no pompous, lengthy string of
words (at least two pages of ttext per one message),
which latter should have been expected.
This curious miss of his attention strengthens my
understanding that his is habitually to diddle only
with family trees and individuals from a limited
number of ready publications.
And nothing to contribute about practically anything
which would require work with some other sources...

M.Sjostrom

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Mar 23, 2008, 7:38:23 PM3/23/08
to GEN-ME...@rootsweb.com

hmm.
I have a slight prejudice against claimed patriline
pedigrees, particularly if they stretch to early
centuries.


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