Stonors/de la Poles/Forsters
JeffJ...@aol.com
I'm trying to sort out this genealogy. I guess I'll start from the top.
One Joan de la Pole I found listed (with reference to Faris' Plantagenet
Ancestry, which I don't have access to, unfortunately) on the Internet as a
daughter of William Duke of Suffolk (c.1395-1450) and wife of Thomas Stonor. I
have a note on a Thomas Stonor, d. 3 May 1440, an MP. Faris seems to give one
Sir William Stonor d.21 May 1484 as Thomas and Joan's son.
Some uncited internet sites give Sir William a sister, Alice, who married
Humphrey Forster (1458-1500). But one reference makes Alice the daughter of
Thomas Stonor and Alice Kirby.
Question 1) Is Joan the daughter of Alice Chaucer? She could be, judging by
the dates, assuming that Sir William and Alice were born in the 1460s. If not,
who was her mother?
Question 2) Are there 2 Thomas Stonors? The MP seems to be the wrong
generation.
Question 3) Who are Alice Stonor's parents?
Question 4) What is known about the Stonors' ancestry?
Jeff Erwin
John Steele Gordon
According to Faris (p. 195) Joan was a baseborn daughter of William de la Pole,
Duke of Suffolk. He says nothing of her mother, but on p. 193 he says that Alice
Chaucer was the wife of Sir John Phelip (died Oct 2 1415) and then of Thomas
Montagu, Earl of Salisbury and then of William de la Pole, Duke of Suffolk. (She
certainly moved briskly up the social ladder from knight to earl to duke.) No
children are given for her, but she couldn't be the mother of Joan as the latter,
according to Faris, was a bastard.
Faris is silent on any siblings of Sir William Stonor (son of Thomas and Joan de
la Pole). Faris states that he married Anne Neville in autumn of 1481, but gives
his death date as May 21 1474 (not 1484). So one of those dates must be a typo.
His reference is The Genealogist 9:189 (1988).
He makes no mention of the Stonors before Thomas.
John Steele Gordon
ED MANN
>
> I'm trying to sort out this genealogy. I guess I'll start from the top.
> One Joan de la Pole I found listed (with reference to Faris' Plantagenet
> Ancestry, which I don't have access to, unfortunately) on the Internet as a
> daughter of William Duke of Suffolk (c.1395-1450) and wife of Thomas Stonor. I
> have a note on a Thomas Stonor, d. 3 May 1440, an MP. Faris seems to give one
> Sir William Stonor d.21 May 1484 as Thomas and Joan's son.
> Some uncited internet sites give Sir William a sister, Alice, who married
> Humphrey Forster (1458-1500). But one reference makes Alice the daughter of
> Thomas Stonor and Alice Kirby.
> Question 1) Is Joan the daughter of Alice Chaucer? She could be, judging by
> the dates, assuming that Sir William and Alice were born in the 1460s. If not,
> who was her mother?
Joan was ilegitimate, mother unidentified.
> Question 2) Are there 2 Thomas Stonors? The MP seems to be the wrong
> generation.
Direct Descendants of Richard de Stonore
1 Sir Richard de Stonore aka: Knt. b: 1250 d: 1315 ref #: BPci:364
+Margaret Harnhull ref #: (BPci:364)
2 Sir John de Stonore aka: Chief Justice of Common Pleas b: 1280 d:
1354 ref #: BPci:364
+Maud ref #: (BPci:364)
3 Sir John de Stonore b: 1310 d: 1361 ref #: BPci:364
+Margery Winard ref #: (BPci:364)
4 Sir Edmund de Stonore b: 1344 d: 1382 ref #: BPci:364
+Elizabeth de L'Isle ref #: (BPci:364)
5 Sir Ralph de Stonore aka: Knt. b: 1370 d: 1394 ref #: BPci:364
+Joan Belknap ref #: (BPci:364)
6 Thomas Stonor b: 1394 d: 3 May 1440 ref #: BPci:364
+Alice Kirkby ref #: (BPci:364)
7 Thomas Stonor b: 1424 d: 23 Apr 1474 ref #: BPci:364
+Joan aka: Joan de la Pole ref #: (BPci:364)
--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com
References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of
the Princess of Wales_, [page].
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat emptor.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.
WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat emptor.
WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page]
Erols
Joan de la Pole, daughter of John de la Pole ( no dates, etc for
either)
married Ralph Basset (27 Aug 1300 - ca 4 May 1341)
and had a daughter Alianore Basset (1325-1388)
who married John Knyvett.
Because of the Basset-Knyvett link, the de la Poles may be of interest
to many of us.
cheers, Judith Sanders
G . EDWARD ALLEN
Actualy, Eleanor Basset of Weldon who married John Knyvet is that Joan's
sister-in-law, so it doesn't affect Basset-Knyvet descendants, of which
I am one.
Kay Allen AG all...@pacbell.net
ED MANN
>
> I have, extracted from one of the infamous Family Tree Maker CDs,:
> Joan de la Pole, daughter of John de la Pole ( no dates, etc for
> either)
> married Ralph Basset (27 Aug 1300 - ca 4 May 1341)
> and had a daughter Alianore Basset (1325-1388)
> who married John Knyvett.
I have Joan as "said to be a Sturdon" not a Pole. See Weis,
_Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed., 158-6A.
Sharp, Ann
> I'm trying to sort out this genealogy. I guess I'll start from the top.
> One Joan de la Pole I found listed (with reference to Faris' Plantagenet
> Ancestry, which I don't have access to, unfortunately) on the Internet as
> a
> daughter of William Duke of Suffolk (c.1395-1450) and wife of Thomas
> Stonor. I
> have a note on a Thomas Stonor, d. 3 May 1440, an MP. Faris seems to give
> one
> Sir William Stonor d.21 May 1484 as Thomas and Joan's son.
> Some uncited internet sites give Sir William a sister, Alice, who married
> Humphrey Forster (1458-1500). But one reference makes Alice the daughter
> of
> Thomas Stonor and Alice Kirby.
>
I retrieved my copy of THE STONOR LETTERS AND PAPERS, and it says
this:
> Question 1) Is Joan the daughter of Alice Chaucer? She could be, judging
> by
> the dates, assuming that Sir William and Alice were born in the 1460s. If
> not,
> who was her mother?
>
In the Visitation of Oxfordshire, p. 143, Thomas Stonor is said to
have married a natural daughter of William de la Pole. On 11 May 1453,
Joan, wife of Thomas Stonor, born in Normandy and dwelling in England from
the time of her marriage, had letters of denization -- Cal. Pat. Rolls,
Henry VI, vi, 70. [Note, William de la Pole served in France from 1417 to
1430, therefore had the opportunity to father a natural child in Normandy.]
Joan/Jane's will is dated 13 April 1493, proved 16 Nov 1494, PCC Vox 16.
> Question 2) Are there 2 Thomas Stonors? The MP seems to be the wrong
> generation.
Yes, father and son.
> Question 3) Who are Alice Stonor's parents?
Alice is Sir William Stonor's aunt, not his sister. She was the
daughter of Thomas Stonor and Alice Kirby, married Humphrey Forster, etc.,
etc.
Sir William Stonor married three times:
1) In the summer of 1475: Elizabeth Croke, widow of Thomas
Ryche. She had issue by Ryche -- Katherine, Jane, Anne, and John -- but no
children by Stonor.
Katherine married Thomas Betson, and his delightful letters to her are
reprinted occasionally in histories of this period.
2) Early in 1480: Anges Wynard, widow of a son of Richard
Wydeslade. Agnes died 4 May 1481. Also childless.
3) Autumn 1480: Anne Neville, daughter of John, Marquis of
Montagu. Anne died before 5 Nov 1486.
Children:
1. John Stonor, (August 1482 - 1498?)
m. Mary Fortescue
Childless.
2. Anne Stonor, (? - 1518) m. Sir
Adrian Fortescue
Children:
Margaret, m. Thomas
Wentworth
Frances, m. Thomas
Fitzgerald
Sir William Stonor died 21 May 1494. His will was dated 11 April 1489.
A. Sharp
ax...@pge.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Leo van de Pas
Hope this helps :
"The night before that he was yolden (yielded himself up in surrender to
the Franco-Scottish forces of Joan of Arc on 12 June 1429) he laye in bed
with a Nonne whom he toke out of holy prefession and defouled, whose name
was Malyne de Cay, by whom he gate a daughter, nowe married to Stonard of
Oxonfordshire".
Hist. MSS Com. 3rd Rep., pp 279-280
William de La Pole, 1st Duke of Suffolk, born 16 October 1396 Cotton,
Suffolk, murdered 2 May 1450, marriage contract 11 November 1430 to Alice
Chaucer (Geoffrey Chaucer's granddaughter) they had a son and a daughter,
Anne and John.
By Malyne de Cay he had a daughter, Jane, presumably born nine months after
12 June 1429.
All I have is :
Jane de La Pole married Thomas Stonor, I have no dates for them but they
had two children:
1.Sir William Stonor
died 1494
married (1) Elizabeth Ryche
married (2) Agnes Wydeslade
married (3) Lady Anne Nevill, daughter of John Nevill,
1st Marquess of Montagu, and Isabel Ingoldesthorpe
2.Alice Stonor
married Sir Humphrey Forster, of Harpden
he was born circa 1458 died 20 November 1500
Any corrections and additions also by me gratefully accepted.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas