Ancestry of Hugh de Meynell & A Possible Royal Line For His Wife, Alice de Audley

[IIWvWII]

I'd like to thank everyone who has taken the time to answer my
question about Hugh Shirley - you've cleared up a lot of my confusion!
Now, however, I have two more questions...

First, has anyone researched the ancestry of Hugh de Meynell (husband
of Alice de Audley) beyond his parents, Hugh de Meynell and Joan de la
Warde? I've found very few references to him online (including
Google's archives for this newsgroup). Is anything further known about
his ancestry?

Second, I'd like to confirm the following line of descent from Henry
II, King of England, for Hugh's wife, Alice de Audley:

1 Henry II, King of England
+"Countess Ida"
2 William Longespee
+Ela FitzPatrick
3 William Longespee
+Idoine de Camville
4 Ela Longespee
+James de Audley
5 Nicholas de Audley
+Catherine Giffard
6 Nicholas de Audley
+Joan Martin
7 Alice de Audley
+Hugh de Meynell

Thanks!

[Robert O'Connor]

>
> First, has anyone researched the ancestry of Hugh de Meynell (husband
> of Alice de Audley) beyond his parents, Hugh de Meynell and Joan de la
> Warde? I've found very few references to him online (including
> Google's archives for this newsgroup). Is anything further known about
> his ancestry?

See Below:

GILBERT de MEYNELL (3), of Langley Meynell, Co. Derby, England., M -- . He
had issue:

Burke's LG 1937, p 1587

ROBERT de MEYNELL (3), of Langley Meynell, Co. Derby., He held 5 knight's
fees of Ralph Fitz Hubert, of which Langley was one. M -- . Died by 1195.
He had issue:

Burke's LG 1937, p 1587

WILLIAM de MEYNELL (2), of Langley Meynell, Co. Derby., M -- . He had
issue: T & G, I, p 357

HUGH de MEYNELL (2), of Langley Meynell, Co. Derby., He was Steward of
William de Ferrers, Earl of Derby. Living 1251. M Philippa (Died 1285),
sister & co-heir of William Savage, of Newton Regis & Hintes, Co. Warw., who
d 1259, & d. of Geoffrey Savage, of Newton Regis & Hintes, Co. Warw. (See
SAVAGE). He had issue:

CP VIII, p 619; Nichols II, p 532; VCH Warw IV, p 161

WILLIAM de MEYNELL (2), of Langley Meynell, Co. Derby & Newton Regis &
Hintes, Co. Warw., He was a great benefactor of Yeaveley Priory. He was
recorded as living in 1313. M -- . He had issue: Nichols II, p 532

Sir HUGH de MEYNELL, M.P., of Langley Meynell, Co. Derby, Newton Regis &
Hintes, Co. Warw (2)., He was M.P. for Co. Derby, 1324, 1332 & 1333. M
Joan (she was recorded as "aged 32" at her father's death, 1306/7. Died
before 1344), d. & heir of Robert, 1st Baron Warde, of Kingsley (See WARDE).
Died shortly before 12 Aug. 1333. I.P.M. He had issue:

VCH Leic, V, p 70 & Warw IV, p 161; CP XII:2, p 351

[Dewayne E. Perry]

IIWvWII wrote:

> Second, I'd like to confirm the following line of descent from Henry
> II, King of England, for Hugh's wife, Alice de Audley:
>

> Thanks!

1 Henry II, King of England AR 30:25, however
+"Countess Ida" AR 30:26 list mother as an unknown
mistress, perhaps Alex de Porhoet
2 William Longespee AR 30:26
+Ela FitzPatrick AR 108:28
3 William Longespee AR 122:29
+Idoine de Camville AR 122:29
4 Ela Longespee AR 122:30
+James de Audley AR 122:30
5 Nicholas de Audley AR 122:31
+Catherine Giffard AR 122:31
6 Nicholas de Audley AR 122:32
+Joan Martin AR 122:32

As noted in the previous email message, Sir Hugh de Meynell of Langley Meynell
married Joan, d & h. of Robert, 1st Baron Warde, of Kinsley [CP XII/2:351].
No mention of Alice and Hugh de Meynell in the discussion of Nicholas Audley
and Joan Martin [CP i:339].

Granted, i dont have the depth of references at my disposal, but between Weis' 7th
edition of Ancestral Roots and the Complete Peerage (and a few others that turned
up nothing to help either way), I would say you need some good proof of the
connection.

7 Alice de Audley
+Hugh de Meynell

Cheers - Dewayne

[Dewayne E. Perry]

"Dewayne E. Perry" wrote:
1
> 6 Nicholas de Audley AR 122:32
> +Joan Martin AR 122:32
>
> As noted in the previous email message, Sir Hugh de Meynell of Langley Meynell
> married Joan, d & h. of Robert, 1st Baron Warde, of Kinsley [CP XII/2:351].
> No mention of Alice and Hugh de Meynell in the discussion of Nicholas Audley
> and Joan Martin [CP i:339].
>
> Granted, i dont have the depth of references at my disposal, but between Weis' 7th
> edition of Ancestral Roots and the Complete Peerage (and a few others that turned
> up nothing to help either way), I would say you need some good proof of the
> connection.
>
> 7 Alice de Audley
> +Hugh de Meynell
>
> Cheers - Dewayne

having searched the archives for audley/meynell, douglas richardson's email of
2001-07-04:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=audley+meynell+group:soc.genealogy.medieval&hl=en&safe=off&rnum=3&selm=5cf47a19.0107041219.4df5600%40posting.google.com

sent me in the direction of the appropriate bit of documentation for the final link:
CP II:3

Ralph (Basset), Lord Basset of Drayton, grandson and h, aged 8 in 1343,
being s and h of Ralph Basset, by Alice (a) da of Nicholas Audley [Lord
Audley] of Heleigh, co Stafford, ...

footnote a: She m Sir Hugh Meinill before 4 Mar. 1342/3 when both were living.

so, you have your lineage established.

cheers - dewayne

[petermcc...@btinternet.com]

I am 14 yrs too late to join this discussion but in case you are still tracking Meynells / de la Wardes I have something that may be of interest.

An Elizabethan House in Northamptonshire displays 40 coats of Arms painted onto walls and ceilings c 1580. One of these is Vaire, argent and sable and I have short-listed both Meynell and de la Warde as "candidate owners". The most likely explanation is that one (or both) are ancestors of one of 5 "core families". So firstly I am tracking the Meynell tree between 1350 - 1580. Secondly I wished for confirmation that Meynell did adopt the de la Warde arms circa 1330

Thank you
Peter

[Peter Howarth]

I can confirm that Robert de la Ward appeared in seventeen rolls of arms dated from c.1279 to c.1312 with 'vairy argent and sable', and sealed with these arms in 1278 and 1301. Monsire la Warde appears with the same arms in a roll compiled c.1334 and in two other rolls compiled c.1340 that probably copied from the earlier one.

Sir Gyles Menyle appears in Powell's Roll c.1350 and Mons Ric Menill in Basynge's Roll c.1395 with these arms. The most likely explanation is that the arms were adopted on inheriting de la Ward lands. But there are several examples from the 14th c. of two unconnected families bearing the same arms. There are also undated examples of these arms being used by the Staunton family of Castle Donington and Pickwell.

Peter Howarth