AGATHA, WIFE of EDWARD the EXILE
Dave Utzinger
Just want to alert everyone to a wonderful article in todays NEHGR (Oct 1996
whole number 600) re: AGATHA, wife of Prince Edward of England the younger
son of Edmund II Ironside and his wife Eldgyth, where her much disputed
parentage is "proven" as JAROSLAV I, Grand Prince of Kiev, and INGEGARDE of
Sweden.
Always optimistic--Dave
W. David Samuelsen
OLD NEWS, I knew about it, it was over 15 years ago and it was published
by S.V. (I can never get his full name right)
W. David Samuelsen
ds...@wasatch.com
Dave Utzinger
In a message dated 96-12-27 22:25:38 EST, you write:
<<
OLD NEWS, I knew about it, it was over 15 years ago and it was published
by S.V. (I can never get his full name right)
W. David Samuelsen
ds...@wasatch.com >>
na, na, na, na, na, picky, picky, picky, picky--you may have known about it,
but, who else???? By the way, this article is by Ren© Jett©. Ph.D.
(Demography), has been teaching History at the C©gep de Saint-Hyacinthe since
1967. He has published Dictionnaire g©n©alogique des familles du Qu©bec des
origines a 1730 (1983) and Trait© de g©n©alogie (1991).
Always optimistic--Dave
Todd A. Farmerie
Dave Utzinger wrote:
>
> Just want to alert everyone to a wonderful article in todays NEHGR (Oct 1996
> whole number 600) re: AGATHA, wife of Prince Edward of England the younger
> son of Edmund II Ironside and his wife Eldgyth, where her much disputed
> parentage is "proven" as JAROSLAV I, Grand Prince of Kiev, and INGEGARDE of
> Sweden.
>
How does this identification account for her being called niece of
Emperor Henry?
taf
Dave Utzinger
In a message dated 96-12-29 16:18:11 EST, you write:
<< Dear Dave.
First of all thank You for Your news. It's a very intersting version about
parentage of Agatha.
I have information that Agatha was a daughter of Istvan I of Hungary
(969-1038) and Gisele of Bavaria (985-1033). Maybe it's wrong ?
Alexander Agamov
Moscow, Russia
aga...@com2com.ru
Jaroslav I had three daughters: Anastasia, married Andreas I of Hungary;
Anna, who married Henry I of France; and Elisabeth, who married Harald III
of Norway. What arguments are in favour of Agatha's possible parentage ?
>>
I really do not know how much I can relate without violating copyright laws.
If I can get permission, I will gladly copy the article and mail it to you.
Suffice it to say that the author summarizes all past claims, individually
argues why they are 'probably' not valid, and concludes as stated. Let me
know--and if anyone has any copyright advice, I would sure appreciate it.
Always optimistic--Dave
Todd A. Farmerie
W. David Samuelsen wrote:
>
> Dave Utzinger wrote:
> >
> > Just want to alert everyone to a wonderful article in todays NEHGR (Oct 1996
> > whole number 600) re: AGATHA, wife of Prince Edward of England the younger
> > son of Edmund II Ironside and his wife Eldgyth, where her much disputed
> > parentage is "proven" as JAROSLAV I, Grand Prince of Kiev, and INGEGARDE of
> > Sweden.
>
> by S.V. (I can never get his full name right)
Presumably you mean Szabolcs de Vajay. If so, this is a DIFFERENT
solution to the question. De Vajay concluded that Agatha was daughter
of Liudolf, half-brother of Henry III (or is there a more recent work of
his in which he changes his mind?).
We (s.g.med) were told of a new solution shortly after the group started
and again several months ago, ("My friend has solved the question, but I
won't tell you what conclusion he reached until it's published") so we
knew it was coming. Still I must admit, I never would have guessed
Jaroslav. Of the evidence I have seen cited by both Moriarty and de
Vajay, nothing has pointed to a russian origin.
Note that Ronay identifies Edward's mother as a half-sister of
Ingergarde (I don't buy it), which would make them first cousins.
Would someone with access to this NEHGR please summarize the arguments
in favor of Jaroslav.
taf
Steven Lavallee
Thank you, Mr. Utzinger, for letting us know about this new
article. I have yet to receive my copy of the latest NEHGR.
With the help of a regular contributor here, I have learned
of several interesting articles relating to questions surroun-
ding the genealogy of the last Anglo-Saxons:
"Tracing a Lost Princess" by Bernard Orna,
in "Coins and Medals," Vol.2 No.2 October, 1965, pp. 94-96,
links a daughter of Edward the Elder to a Duke of Bohemia.
"Mathilda, wife of Guigues VIII, Count of Albon" by
G. Andrews Moriarty, in "The New England Historical
and Genealogical Register," Vol.CXI (Oct. 1957), pp 265-267
and
"Mahaud d'Angleterre, dauphine de Viennois" by "Viennensis,"
in "Intermediaire des Chercheurs et Curieux," Oct 1959, columns 883-887
describe a descent from Edgar the Aetheling.
Finally, "Agatha, Wife of the Atheling Eadward,"
by G. Andrews Moriarty, in "The New England Historical
and Genealogical Register," Vol.CVI (Jan. 1952), pp 52-60,
and
"Die letzen Prinzen des angels"achsischen K"onigshauses,"
by Gerd Wunder, in "Genealogisches Jahrbuch," vol. 15, pp 81-89 (1961)
and
"Agatha, Mother of Saint Margaret of Scotland," by
Szabolcs de Vajay, in "Duquesne Review," vol 7, no.2 (Spring, 1962),
pp. 71-87
all deal with the question of the identity
of the wife of Edward the Exile.
There are also three chapters in "The Lost King of England,"
by Gabriel Ronay (1989), pp 102-121, that deal with the marriages
of Eadward --and (!) Edmund-- Aetheling.
Can anyone recommend any other good articles relating to this topic?
Happy New Year.
Steven Benedict Lavallee
Steven_...@brown.edu
caro...@aol.com
Subject: Re: AGATHA, WIFE of EDWARD the EXILE
From: Dave Utzinger <U...@AOL.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 20:14:46 -0500
Just want to alert everyone to a wonderful article in todays NEHGR (Oct
1996
whole number 600) re: AGATHA, wife of Prince Edward of England the younger
son of Edmund II Ironside and his wife Eldgyth, where her much disputed
parentage is "proven" as JAROSLAV I, Grand Prince of Kiev, and INGEGARDE
of
Sweden.
Always optimistic--Dave
I had always heard that she was the granddaughter of (Saint) Stephen, King
of Hungary (975-1038) and his wife Gisela of Bavaria. One source said her
father was Bruno, Bishop of Augsburg, son of King Stephen. Anyone else
have this?
caro...@aol.com
In article <1996122916...@main.com2com.ru>,
<GEN-ME...@MAIL.EWORLD.COM> wrote:
>I have information that Agatha was a daughter of Istvan I of Hungary
>(969-1038) and Gisele of Bavaria (985-1033). Maybe it's wrong ?
>
>Jaroslav I had three daughters: Anastasia, married Andreas I of Hungary;
>Anna, who married Henry I of France; and Elisabeth, who married Harald
III
>of Norway. What arguments are in favour of Agatha's possible parentage ?
>
>Alexander Agamov Moscow, Russia aga...@com2com.ru
Who was the father of Andreas I of Hungary? If it was King Stephen, then
the story that she was the GRANDDAUGHTER of Stephen (which is what I had
read in several places -- sorry don't have the sources) might be
reconciled with her also be a GRANDDAUGHTER of Jaroslav (i.e., daughter of
Andreas I and Anastasia). Just speculation. Any evidence of this? Just
a speculation, of course.
caro...@aol.com
caro...@aol.com
Todd A. Farmerie
Andreas was not son of Stephen, but son of a first cousin. While her
being daughter of Stephen was once the predominant version, de Vajay has
showed that this fits neither the chronology nor the contemporary
documentation.
taf
Todd A. Farmerie
Steven Lavallee wrote:
>
> With the help of a regular contributor here, I have learned
> of several interesting articles relating to questions surroun-
> ding the genealogy of the last Anglo-Saxons:
>
> "Tracing a Lost Princess" by Bernard Orna,
> in "Coins and Medals," Vol.2 No.2 October, 1965, pp. 94-96,
> links a daughter of Edward the Elder to a Duke of Bohemia.
>
Have you been able to get your hands on this one? (My ILL attempts
failed.) If so, I would appreciate a summary of the evidence presented,
and an opinion on whether the author carried the field.
Todd
Todd A. Farmerie
Dave Utzinger wrote:
>
> I really do not know how much I can relate without violating copyright laws.
> If I can get permission, I will gladly copy the article and mail it to you.
> Suffice it to say that the author summarizes all past claims, individually
> argues why they are 'probably' not valid, and concludes as stated. Let me
> know--and if anyone has any copyright advice, I would sure appreciate it.
>
Information cannot be copyrighted. Thus you can freely summarize the
information, in your own words (please do), but not copy it without
permission.
taf
Don Stone
Todd A. Farmerie wrote:
>
> De Vajay concluded that Agatha was daughter
>
> We (s.g.med) were told of a new solution shortly after the group
> knew it was coming. Still I must admit, I never would have guessed
> Jaroslav. Of the evidence I have seen cited by both Moriarty and de
> Vajay, nothing has pointed to a russian origin.
>
> in favor of Jaroslav.
Here is my brief summary of the issues relating to the parentage
of Agatha, wife of Edward the Exile:
A definitive answer to the question of Agatha's parentage may be
difficult to obtain. De Vajay (1962) presents the case for
Liudolf, Margrave of West-Friesland, and Gertrude of Egisheim as
her parents, while Jette (1996) argues for Jaroslav I, Grand-
Prince of Kiev, and Ingegarde of Sweden. De Vajay's hypothesis
makes Agatha a daughter of a half-brother of Emperor Henry III,
consistent with early documents which specify that Agatha was
"filia germani imperatoris Henrici," i.e., a blood relative of
Emperor Henry, but Jette believes that this hypothesis requires
an unreasonably tight chronology and that the absence of mention
of such a connection by continental chroniclers makes it
suspect. Jette also adduces onomastic support for his proposal
that Jaroslav and Ingegarde were the parents of Agatha (a Greek
name), since Jaroslav had an attraction to Greek culture,
perhaps inspired by his stepmother Anne of Byzantium; in
addition, none of Agatha's children or grandchildren were given
German names, while two of her three children (Margaret and
Christine) had Swedish names. Jette believes that the blood
relationship with Emperor Henry may have been inferred by later
chroniclers from William of Malmesbury's statement that Agatha
was the sister of the Queen of Hungary. Jette's hypothesis
makes Agatha a sister of Anastasia, queen of Andrew I of
Hungary, but a later queen of Hungary was Judith, daughter of
Emperor Henry III and wife of Andrew's son Salomon.
References:
Jette, Rene. 1996. "Is the Mystery of the Origin of Agatha,
Wife of Edward the Exile, Finally Solved?" New England
Historical and Genealogical Register 150: 417-432.
de Vajay, Szabolcs. 1962. "Agatha, Mother of St. Margaret,
Queen of Scotland." Duquesne Review 7:71-80.
-- DS
Todd A. Farmerie
I have not seen the original Jette article yet, but went over my various
sources, and have to say I find this argument somewhat weak.
Don Stone wrote:
>
> Here is my brief summary of the issues relating to the parentage
> of Agatha, wife of Edward the Exile:
>
> A definitive answer to the question of Agatha's parentage may be
> difficult to obtain. De Vajay (1962) presents the case for
> Liudolf, Margrave of West-Friesland, and Gertrude of Egisheim as
> her parents, while Jette (1996) argues for Jaroslav I, Grand-
> Prince of Kiev, and Ingegarde of Sweden. De Vajay's hypothesis
> makes Agatha a daughter of a half-brother of Emperor Henry III,
> consistent with early documents which specify that Agatha was
> "filia germani imperatoris Henrici," i.e., a blood relative of
> Emperor Henry, but Jette believes that this hypothesis requires
> an unreasonably tight chronology
Tight chronology is required, but not unreasonably so. De Vajay calls
for three generations in 58 years, 998-1046, which puts first pregnancy
at 19, on the average. I have seen as low as 15 over three straight
generations in documented medieval pedigrees (particularly in female
line descents).
> and that the absence of mention
> of such a connection by continental chroniclers makes it
> suspect.
This criticism is more valid, but is arguing from negative data. Edward
was a political non-entity, and (somewhat) geographically removed. Keep
in mind that the marriages western emperors to the Greek princesses
suffers from the same defect. It was insignificant to the Greeks.
> Jette also adduces onomastic support for his proposal
> that Jaroslav and Ingegarde were the parents of Agatha (a Greek
> name), since Jaroslav had an attraction to Greek culture,
> perhaps inspired by his stepmother Anne of Byzantium;
While the absence of the name Agatha in Germany is troubling, I don't
see Jaroslav solving this problem. He named known his daughters Anna
(presumably after his step-mother), Anastasia, and Elisabeth, while all
of his sons were given slavic names. This does not show a pattern of
preference for Greek names. Plus, I seriously doubt Jaroslav was the
only person in Russia/Hungary/Germany with Greek envy.
> in
> addition, none of Agatha's children or grandchildren were given
> German names, while two of her three children (Margaret and
> Christine) had Swedish names.
Regarding this, the oldest sons of Margaret recapitulated her pedigree
(Edward, Edmund, Ethelred), followed by that of her brother Edgar. Then
she goes to Alexander, which is not found within the Scotish, English,
German, Kievan, or Swedish royals, followed by David, which has Gaelic
usage, but again not English, Kievan, or Swedish. The daughters were
Eadgyth (or was it Eadgifu) and Mary, the former English, and the latter
innovative for the area, but again not found in the Kievan or Swedish
families. I see no clear pattern here that supports Swedish or Russian
origin. Christina and Mary do suggest strong christian leanings, which
is not surprising, since Christina was a nun, and Mary's mother a
Saint. If we throw in Manteyer's hypothesis (which was accepted by de
Vajay, seems to have fallen into disfavor) we do have Matilda, daughter
of Edgar, which he attributes to friendly relations with William I and
wife, but is of german origin.
The names Margaret and Christine do not show up in the Swedish royal
family (at least in my sources) for another few generations (the
daughters of Steinkil). By that time, they also show up in Navarre.
Maybe she was spanish :) Christine is indeed uncommon in 11th century,
while a few Margarets can be identified (several later Margarets I
traced back seem to owe inspiration to an 11th century daughter of
Hilduin III, Count of Rameru).
> Jette believes that the blood
> relationship with Emperor Henry may have been inferred by later
> chroniclers from William of Malmesbury's statement that Agatha
> was the sister of the Queen of Hungary.
I can't buy this. "Daughter of a brother of Emperor Henry" simply
cannot describe the sister of the wife of ANY King of Hungary. (Or is
Vajay inaccurate in his translation of "filia germani imperatoris
Henrici". And I was under the impression that the originals called her
daughter or sister or relative of a King, and not of a Queen of
Hungary.) Thus it is unlikely such a specific invention would be
produced (unless they had a specific relationship in mind, with Agatha
as daughter to St.Stephen, AND botched the latin). This is the only
near-contemporary testimony that we have, and I don't think it can be so
freely dismissed without something more solid than the fact that
Jaroslav married a Swede and liked hummus and pita bread.
> References:
>
> Jette, Rene. 1996. "Is the Mystery of the Origin of Agatha,
> Wife of Edward the Exile, Finally Solved?" New England
> Historical and Genealogical Register 150: 417-432.
>
> de Vajay, Szabolcs. 1962. "Agatha, Mother of St. Margaret,
> Queen of Scotland." Duquesne Review 7:71-80.
While the nomenclature, and to a lesser extent the chronology of de
Vajay's solution raises eyebrows, his interpretation is the only one
possible if one accepts the "filia germani imperatoris Henrici"
statement. If you reject this statement, then one is truly guessing,
and I do not find the nomenclature sufficient to favor the Jette
solution over some other guesses.
Thanks, Don, for the summary.
taf
Anders Berg
>Don Stone wrote:
>>
>> Here is my brief summary of the issues relating to the parentage
>> of Agatha, wife of Edward the Exile:
>> Jette also adduces onomastic support for his proposal
>> that Jaroslav and Ingegarde were the parents of Agatha (a Greek
>> name), since Jaroslav had an attraction to Greek culture,
>> perhaps inspired by his stepmother Anne of Byzantium;
>> addition, none of Agatha's children or grandchildren were given
>> German names, while two of her three children (Margaret and
>> Christine) had Swedish names.
Thanks to Don Stone for the summary of Jette's article. I would very much
like to know the arguments backing up the statement that Margaret and Christine
are "Swedish names". They are Greek names, and from the Swedish horizon in
the mid 11th century they are Christian names distinctly different from the
native name tradition. At the time Agatha's children were born I would be
surprised if *any* native women in Sweden bore these names! The country was
just barely Christianized.
Todd A.Farmerie wrote:
>The names Margaret and Christine do not show up in the Swedish royal
>family (at least in my sources) for another few generations (the
>daughters of Steinkil). By that time, they also show up in Navarre.
>Maybe she was spanish :) Christine is indeed uncommon in 11th century,
>while a few Margarets can be identified (several later Margarets I
>traced back seem to owe inspiration to an 11th century daughter of
>Hilduin III, Count of Rameru).
Margaret and Christine show up the first time in Sweden with the daughters
of Inge (the Elder), son of Steinkil. They are probably born in the latter
half of the 11th century. Inge was married to a woman of unknown origin
(Russian would be a qualified guess) with the Greek name Helena.
The occurence of Christine and Margaret together is interesting, but the
possible link between Agatha and the Swedish princesses is much more likely
through their mother Helena than through Inge (whose mother's father may
have been Emund, brother of Jaroslav's Ingegarde).
When talking about nomenclature and Greek names, interesting is the
occurrence of the name Philip in western Europe with Jaroslav's daughter
Anna's son Philip of France; and king Philip Halstensson of Sweden, grandson
of Steinkil. The maternity of the Swedish Philip is entirely unknown, but
given the name it is not unlikely that Halsten Steinkilsson, like his
brother Inge (the Elder), married a woman of Greek or Slavic origin.
Todd:
>While the nomenclature, and to a lesser extent the chronology of de
>Vajay's solution raises eyebrows, his interpretation is the only one
>possible if one accepts the "filia germani imperatoris Henrici"
>statement. If you reject this statement, then one is truly guessing,
>and I do not find the nomenclature sufficient to favor the Jette
>solution over some other guesses.
Yes, I agree. When reading Don's summary I expected something more concrete
to back up the claim. Nomenclature can be very strong evidence (consider if
Agatha would have had a daughter named Ingegarde!), but in this case it does
not seem to be enough.
Cheers,
Anders Berg
e-mail: and...@algonet.se
***************************************************************************
Medieval genealogy: http://www.algonet.se/~anderzb/genea/medieval/index.htm
Scanian genealogy: http://www.algonet.se/~anderzb/genea/skane.htm
Don Stone
Todd A. Farmerie wrote:
>
> Don Stone wrote:
> > ............. De Vajay's hypothesis
> > makes Agatha a daughter of a half-brother of Emperor Henry III,
> > consistent with early documents which specify that Agatha was
> > "filia germani imperatoris Henrici," i.e., a blood relative of
> > Emperor Henry, but Jette believes that this hypothesis requires
> > an unreasonably tight chronology
>
> Tight chronology is required, but not unreasonably so. De Vajay calls
> for three generations in 58 years, 998-1046, which puts first pregnancy
> at 19, on the average. I have seen as low as 15 over three straight
> generations in documented medieval pedigrees (particularly in female
> line descents).
But de Vajay calls for two generations in a little over 30 years (Gisela
of Swabia b. ca. 990 [de Vajay] or ca. 993 [Jette], her son Liudolf
b. ca. 1008 [de Vajay] or ca. 1010 [Jette] or 1016 [Moriarty,
Schwennicke], and his purported daughter Agatha b. ca. 1025 [de Vajay]).
>
> > Jette believes that the blood
> > relationship with Emperor Henry may have been inferred by later
> > chroniclers from William of Malmesbury's statement that Agatha
> > was the sister of the Queen of Hungary.
>
> I can't buy this. "Daughter of a brother of Emperor Henry" simply
> cannot describe the sister of the wife of ANY King of Hungary. (Or is
> Vajay inaccurate in his translation of "filia germani imperatoris
> Henrici". And I was under the impression that the originals called
> her daughter or sister or relative of a King, and not of a Queen of
> Hungary.) Thus it is unlikely such a specific invention would be
> produced (unless they had a specific relationship in mind, with Agatha
> as daughter to St.Stephen, AND botched the latin). This is the only
> near-contemporary testimony that we have, and I don't think it can be
> so freely dismissed without something more solid than the fact that
> Jaroslav married a Swede and liked hummus and pita bread.
Jette itemizes nine items of contemporary or near-contemporary chronicle
evidence in his Table 2. Included are Florent/Florence of Worcester's
statement that Agatha was the daughter of a brother of Emperor Henry,
William of Malmesbury's statement that Agatha was sister of a queen of
Hungary, and Roger of Hoveden's statement (late 12th century) that
Agatha was a Russian princess. Several other chroniclers say that
Agatha was the daughter of a king of Hungary.
According to Jette (p. 428) a marginal note in one translation of the
Anglo Saxon Chronicle [at the place where Agatha's relation to the
emperor is given] uses the word "niece", but "emperor's kinswoman" may
be a better translation. (This is in the entry for 1057, the year
Edward the Exile returned to England.)
Anders Berg wrote:
>
> .... I would very much
> like to know the arguments backing up the statement that Margaret and
Christine
> are "Swedish names". They are Greek names, and from the Swedish horizon in
> the mid 11th century they are Christian names distinctly different from the
> native name tradition. At the time Agatha's children were born I would be
> surprised if *any* native women in Sweden bore these names! The country was
> just barely Christianized.
I should have been more careful. Jette actually says that the only
other appearance of those names in the time period of interest is in
connection with the royal house of Sweden, and he cites the daughters of
King Inge of Sweden that Todd and you mentioned. It seems likely to me
that the names Margaret and Christine for Agatha's daughters and for
Inge's daughters are both reflections of Greek/Byzantine influence and
are rather neutral with respect to Jette's hypothesis.
Incidentally, de Vajay reviewed a draft of Jette's article, and reported
that he still believed that Liudolf was most likely the father of
Agatha.
Now back to my hummus and pita bread sandwich.
-- DS
Todd A. Farmerie
Don Stone wrote:
> Now back to my hummus and pita bread sandwich.
>
Thanks for the additional detail :)
Todd
John T. Lyman
As a neophyte to this medieval genealogy, I would like to know who are the
known children of Jaroslav and Ingegarde.
My information (from the LDS AF) is Ingegarde had nine children between
1020 and 1036 and none were named Agatha. Perhaps some of these nine might
need to be purged to make room for Agatha (if that is where she belongs).
I haven't listed all nine because I do not want to be a part of propagating
an error. I do have
Anastasia
Isiaslav I
Wsevolod I
Anne of Kiev
which are all listed in Weis AR7.
Will someone name the other known children of Ingegarde and cite a source?
John T. Lyman
jtl...@worldnet.att.net
Betty Rockswold
shows the following children of Jaroslaw I and Ingered, dtr. of King
Olaf III of Sweden:
Elias d. 1020
Wladimor 1020-1052,m. Oda
Dobronega (Maria d. 1087 m. K. Casimir of Poland
Isjaslaw 1025-1078 m. Gjertrud dtr. of Mieczyslaw II of Poland
Anastasia d. 1074 m. Andreas I.
Swjatoslaw II, 1027-1054
Wsewolod 1030-1093 m. Irene, dtr. K. Constantine
Elisabeth m. K. Harald III of Norway
Anna d. 1075 m. K. Henry I of France
Wjstacheslaw d. 1056
Igor d. 1060
Can't find an Agatha. Doesn't sound like a name that would be used in
this country.
--
Betty Rockswold
1522 N. Greenwood Ct.
Eagan, MN 55122
email: bett...@spacestar.net
Henry Soszynski
At 20:43 8/01/97 -0800, you wrote:
>As a neophyte to this medieval genealogy, I would like to know who are the
>known children of Jaroslav and Ingegarde.
>
>My information (from the LDS AF) is Ingegarde had nine children between
>1020 and 1036 and none were named Agatha. Perhaps some of these nine might
>need to be purged to make room for Agatha (if that is where she belongs).
>
>I haven't listed all nine because I do not want to be a part of propagating
>an error. I do have
>
>Anastasia
>Isiaslav I
>Wsevolod I
>Anne of Kiev
>
>which are all listed in Weis AR7.
>
>Will someone name the other known children of Ingegarde and cite a source?
>
>
>John T. Lyman
>jtl...@worldnet.att.net
>
des Rurikides Russes du Xe Au XIIIe Si=E8cle" Num.35 May 1977 Orientalia
Christiana.
Table 1 page 7
Jaroslaw I GrPr Kiev +20/2/1054 m1. Unknown m2. Inguiguerde de Su=E8de=
(Ingegarde)
dau of Olof ,she died 10/2/1050
#22 Wladimir 1020-1052 Pr of Novgorod
#23 Iziaslaw I 1022-1078 Pr of Kiev
#24 Anastasia married c.1046 Andrew King of Hungary
#25 Swiatoslaw II 1027-1076 GrPr of Kiev
#26 Wsewolod I 1030-1093 GrPr of Kiev
#27 Elizabeth m1. 1044 Harald +1066 King of Norway m2. 1067 Sven +1076 King
Denmark
#28 Anne +aft 1075 m1. 19/5/1051 Henry I King of France m2. aft 4/8/1060
Raoul II +1071
#29 Wiatcheslaw 1036-1056 Pr of Smolensk
#30 Igor +1060 Pr of Wladimir-Wolhynsk
Nine children but no Agatha. Hope this helps. Cheers,Henry
Henry Soszynski
http://www.uq.edu.au/~zzhsoszy
Todd A. Farmerie
FWIW, with the focus put on the nomenclature in this question, I have
been keeping my eyes open for an 11th century Agatha among the European
families. I found one in the most peculiar place.
The first of many marriages arranged by Alfonso VI of Leon was to an
Agatha, who rather than marry the heathen Spaniard, died before the
union could take place. She was daughter of about the last person I
would have expected to come upon in looking for potential relatives of
the Aetheling's wife, and yet someone intimately familiar with the
goings on of the time . . . William the Conqueror.
Maybe . . . .
No. Back to the drawing board.
taf
John P. DuLong
I hope that one of you who has been following this discussion would be kind enough to email me all
the postings in this thread. For the last two weeks my access to Usenet News was hampered. I
could read this thread, but I could not respond, nor could I email the thread to myself so that I
could carefully read over the comments. I found this very frustrating.
I am anxious to have all the postings so that I can send them to René Jetté. I just got off the
telephone with him and he expressed an interest in reading the comments about his new
article and theory. I will print off the postings and physically mail them to him. Perhaps he
will be willing to comment further on his theory to clarify any outstanding issues.
I will thank you in advance for sending me the posting or telling me how I can pull them
from an archive.
John P. DuLong, Ph.D.
Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy
959 Oxford Road
Berkley, Michigan 48072-2011
(810) 541-2894
Web Page: http://wwnet.com/~dulongj/
Bryan Scott Johnson
18 January 1997
John P. DuLong, Ph.D.
Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy
959 Oxford Road
Berkley, Michigan 48072-2011
(810) 541-2894
Web Page: http://wwnet.com/~dulongj/
Dear Mr. DuLong:
I am a descendant (in South Carolina) of French Huguenot family known in
the United States as Bobo (the earliest record here is in Virginia in
1699/1700). In France, the name is spelled various ways BeauBeau, etc.
Do you know of any families by this same name in Canada or the United
States? I have seen records of this family in Canada and one record of a
Beaubois in New Orleans. He was a Jesuit priest there in the early
1700s. I would appreciate any assistance you might be able to offer. In
clsoing, I remain,
Sincerely yours,
Bryan Scott Johnson
bsj...@mindspring.com
John P. DuLong
I want to thank the people who told me how to get the archived copies of
this thread. I printed it off and will mail it to Jetté sometime this
week.
--
John P. DuLong, Ph.D.
Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy
959 Oxford Road
Berkley, MI 48072-2011
(810) 541-2894
Web page: http://www.wwnet.com:80/dulongj/