MONEYPENNY/MAGNEPEINE
Chuck Moneypenny
William Moneypenny/Menypeny was the trusted agent of King
Louis XI of France. He was also the friend of the Earl of
Warwick and passed communications between the two across the
English Channel. Timeframe: 1461-1470. He was a player in
the York/Lancastrian struggle when the French
crown became involved. Some of his letters have been
published. Does anyone know where I might locate them.
My Moneypenny line goes back to Roger d'Magne Piene (there
are various spellings), a Norman who received a land grant
in Scotland from William the Conquerer, sometime following
the conquest in 1066. It has been explained to me that
the corruption from Magne Piene to Moneypenny was because it
had been Anglicized, transiting various forms.
The Moneypenny family held land in Fife (from about 1200 AD)
under the MacDuffs, along the east coast. The estate was
called Pitmilly and was held by Moneypenny's until the mid
to late 1800s. It was located near Boarshill, south of St
Andrews.
I am looking for any information on the early Norman
connections, especially Roger Magnepiene, whom may be a
direct ancestor. Any help and advice appreciated.
Chuck Moneypenny
Lincoln, NE
John Yohalem
> My Moneypenny line goes back to Roger d'Magne Piene (there
> are various spellings), a Norman who received a land grant
> in Scotland from William the Conquerer, sometime following
> the conquest in 1066. It has been explained to me that
> the corruption from Magne Piene to Moneypenny was because it
> had been Anglicized, transiting various forms.
> Chuck Moneypenny
> Lincoln, NE
How would William the Conqueror have granted lands in Scotland? He never
possessed any.
Perhaps you are confusing him with the Scottish king William the Lion
(1164-1208).
Jean Coeur de Lapin
ench...@escape.com
Chuck Moneypenny
John Yohalem <ench...@ESCAPE.COM> wrote:
>
>Perhaps you are confusing him with the Scottish king William the Lion
>(1164-1208).
>
>Jean Coeur de Lapin
>ench...@escape.com
and some documentation suggest varied origins. One is that
Malcolm of Canmore issued the lands to Roger Moneypenny
somewhere between 1166 and 1201. One is that William the
Lion issued the lands to Roger Magnepiene. Nad the other is
that a Roger Magnepiene was a with of William the Conquerer
and granted lands in the north (Scotland) for his valued
service.
I've researched long and hard but have been unable to
locate any definative proof of any of the sories/legends
thus far. The nearest I've found is that in fact Roger
Moneypenny was awarded lands of Pitmilly and the family is
traced back to there in 1201.
Any suggestions on where to turn would be appreciated.
John Yohalem
Well, the trouble is family legends get confused, and any famous name gets
confused with another. I once copy edited a ms. in which a famous writer
with an obsession with hang gliding attributed its invention to a Bavarian
in 1595, and said he had come to the notice of King Ludwig. Of course, the
famous Ludwig was not born until 1846, but that didn't stop him -- it was
the only famous Bavarian ruler he knew of.
Malcolm Canmore (its a nickname meaning "Big Head") was king from 1058 to
1093, so I doubt he granted any lands in 1166, when his great-grandson
William was on the throne. All sorts of people are recalled by their
families as having "come over with the Conqueror", but what this almost
invariably means is "a long time ago". A few weeks ago someone on this List
mentioned that only twelve names of genuine Conqueror companions had ever
been traced. It's very likely yours was not among them.
Jean Coeur de Lapin
Chuck Moneypenny
sr...@inetnebr.com (Chuck Moneypenny) wrote:
>William Moneypenny/Menypeny was the trusted agent of King
>Louis XI of France. He was also the friend of the Earl of
>Warwick and passed communications between the two across the
>English Channel. Timeframe: 1461-1470. He was a player in
>the York/Lancastrian struggle when the French
>crown became involved. Some of his letters have been
>published. Does anyone know where I might locate them.
>
>The Moneypenny family held land in Fife (from about 1200 AD)
>under the MacDuffs, along the east coast. The estate was
>called Pitmilly
>
Just an extract of the kinds of info that I continue to come
across. Are there any detailed and factual works that would
assist in researching these earlier years?
INVERKEITHING AND ROSYTH
[According to a "Genealogy of the Name Monipennie
conformably to an old MS in the time of James II of
Scotland", by William Tulloch, Bishop of Moray, 1472-88, the
origin of the Moneypenny is as follows - 1057. Malcolm III
surnamed Canmoir, King of Scotland, being obliged to flee
out of Scotland after his father was murdered by Macbeth,
came into England, where he lodged with a French Gentleman
named James Dauphin, a rich merchant at London, who proved
to be an extraordinary friend to the King, by reason he had
a fair daughter named Blanche whom the King loved. This
gentleman being extremely rich and a true friend to the
King, wherefore the King discovered his mind to him, and
desired he would assist him with some few pennies-to which
the gentleman answered in sport that it would not be a few
pennies but "monie (many) pennies," but that he did what he
could, these words came very true to pass afterwords. The
King being resolved, went away and was accompanied with a
great number of all nations, amongst the rest were this
gentleman’s two sons, named Richard and Robert, and two
other gentleman their good brethren one by name Hieronimus
surnamed Mazvallia, son to the Lord Dalbrusko in Italia, of
whom descended William de Brusko who was Chancellor of
Scotland in King Alexander’s time, and many more of that
name who formerly lived in this Kingdom. The other good
brother named William descended of the Earl of Cherters in
France of him descended all of the name of Cherters in
Scotland. As for the eldest son of James Dauphin, the King
gifted him the lands of Pitmilly, Kinkell, and Earlshall,
and married him to a lady related to Macduff, Thane of Fife,
of him descended all those of the name Monypenny, which
surname the King gave him by reason of his father’s answer.
His brother, Robert, was married to a lady related to
Gospartrick Earl of Northumberland, of him descended all
those of the name Fitz James in Dorsetshire in England."
A note adds that King Malcolm had issue by the said
Blanche as follows-Airlotta, married Signet, seventh Earl of
Orkney; Manifeda, married Lobie, one of the progenitors of
Cambel; Maud, married Gilchrist, Earl of Angus; and Duncan,
afterwords Duncan II of Scotland.
To what extent the forgoing story may be relied upon,
cannot easily be determined; but that it contains something
of truth is probable from the facts that a Dolphin occupies
the first and fourth quarters of the Moneypenny Arms and
that the name, Richard, is subsequently found in the family.
In any case, Thomas, Prior of St Andrews 1200-11, gave
Richard Monipennie the lands of Pitmaulin, which Malisius
had held.
Chuck Moneypenny
Lincoln, NE
vvict...@gmail.com
Google David, fallowing his path and hers gave me my Moneypenny family..
If helps you find more Moneypenny family. Ogilvy are Moneypenny
My Grandfather brought her put her in a few castle's not in marriage had 8 children with her and more children with other women. While in control of Scottish parliament working on treaty between France and England.. He was a big problem why France was mad at Catholic faith. He Beaton, never married her,keeping her children bastard.. in eyes of France and Scotland, England late 1400.
Sorry sloppy info.. I just found your message board and I'm on way out the door. I'm on Ancestry.com getting my info
Vance Mead
It appears that the surname Moneypenny / Manypeny could also have had an English origin,
though probably not of exalted Norman blood.
These are from entries in Common Pleas. First, a yeoman family in Biggleswade, Beds:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT6/R2/CP40no541a/aCP40no541afronts/IMG_0835.htm
Easter 1396
Last entry:
Herts. John Manypeny, of Bekylswade/Biggleswade, (Beds), plaintiff
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H5/CP40no621/aCP40no621fronts/IMG_0413.htm
Easter 1416
Third to last entry:
London. John Manypeny, of Bykeswade, Beds, yeoman, one of the defendants
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no664/bCP40no664dorses/IMG_1329.htm
Hilary 1427
Second entry:
Beds. Thomas Manypeny, of Bykeleswade, butcher, one of the plaintiffs
Then there were at least three William Manypenys at the time of the Wars of the Roses:
Trinity 1450
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no758/bCP40no758dorses/IMG_1156.htm
Second to last entry:
Essex. William Manypeny, prior of St Lawrence the Martyr, Blakemore, plaintiff
Hilary 1460
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no796/aCP40no796fronts/IMG_0556.htm
First entry:
Lincs. William Manypeny, clerk, plaintiff for trespass at Snellesland/Snelland
Hilary 1484
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT3/R3/CP40no887/aCP40no887fronts/IMG_0048.htm
Second to last entry:
Hunts. William Manypeny, of Godmanchester, merchant
Has William Moneypenny, the messenger between the Earl of Warwick and the King
of France been identified. Are his origins known?
Vance Mead
June 25. Safe conduct for the abp. of Narbonne, the bastard of Bourbon count of Rousillon, William Manypeny, lord of Cungersamt, and William le Rous, secretary of Louis K. of France.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/rymer-foedera/vol11/pp576-601
Is Cungersamt Cameron, a parish in Fife?