Henry IV and sources

[Leo]

In my last e-mail I almost made a terrible mistake.

Will Johnson mentioned three generations with obviously wrong dates.

Lady Elizabeth Grey
Emma Kynaston
Elizabeth Eyton

I checked the source for Emma Kynaston and that was the book by William Addams Reitwiesner on the ancestors of Kate Middleton. Did this mean Kate Middleton is also a descendant of Henry IV? I was ready to jump to that conclusion but then checked the book itself and the information appears in a chart from John of Gaunt, his son Henry IV - Humphrey - Antigone - Lady Elizabeth Grey - Emma Kynaston - Elizabeth Eyton and so on to Queen Elizabeth II.

And so all I can say is that Dean gave the correct connections but with some wrong dates.

Leo van de Pas

[Wjhonson]

What are the sources for the existence of Emma Kynaston?

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[Leo]

I think it was a good suggestion by Will Johnson to check sources. It paid off for me as I have now disconnected one obviously wrong link.

Faris in his Plantagenet Ancestry, 1st edition, mentions that Sir Roger Kynaston and Lady Elizabeth Grey had two sons and six daughters.

So far I have found only one son and three daughters. The son is Humphrey, the daughters Jane, Mary and Emma.

Sadly Landed Gentry only mentions Humphrey.

Combining with Weis, Ancestral Roots, 7th edition, I have

Sir Roger Kynaston, born circa 1430, died 1517.married in 1465 Lady Elizabeth Grey, born 1440 and died ater 1501.

I have only a guess at the birth of Jane, ca.1470. She married Roger Thornes, of Shelrock.
For her I have as a descendant Gateway Ancestor Nathaniel Littleton.

Mary married Hywel ap Jenkin
Her Gateway Ancestor descendants I have as Jane Vaughan, Rowland Ellis and Margaret Roberts

Emma I have found only in William Addams Reitwiesner's book,
for her I have many titled Brits as descendants, but also Dame Edith Sitwell, Primula Susan Rollo wife of David Niven, and Annemarie Gualthérie van Weezel wife of Carlos duke of Parma.

I had a daughter Margaret but double checking (because her dates made it impossible) I have now given the father shown in BP 1999.

Any addition or correction gratefully accepted.

Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

[Dean]

This is a discussion in 2000. Hope the link works.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval/browse_thread/thread/e22e598955903862/433e6b3947b70ee4%3Fq%3D%2522John%2BKynaston%2522%23433e6b3947b70ee4&ei=iGwTS6eaOpW8Qpmqic0O&sa=t&ct=res&cd=4&source=groups&usg=AFQjCNGYOlxrQKDxWQ-6RISB8bdluIyuyQ

One of the sources could be Vis of Shropshire 1623 p 295 but it does not give the Emma. It just says 6. .......vxor Ellis Eton [Eyton].


As in the above discussion, Bartrum is another source. I have Welsh Genealogies AD 1400-1500, Vol 1, A-Bleddyn ap Cynfyn. Looking at pedigree Bleddyn ap Cynfyn 38 (A3), p131 the page has Sir Roger Kynaston ap Gruffudd of Hordley at the top. [The line just below Roger has him as Sheriff of Shropshire 1461, 1470, d 1495/6 with a FN #1 at the end of the line at at bottom the FN is V[isitation] of Shrops 295].

The First wife is =Elizabeth Cobham widow of Richard Lord Strange

The Second wife is =Elizabeth, da of Henry Grey, C. of Tankerville

The children are noted with either a (1) first wife or (2) second wife. For example, Thomas Kynaston is listed as a son of wife (1).

Ermin=John ap John Euton (Eyton) is shown as one of many daughters of wife (2) Elizabeth Grey. Just below that is a reference to another pedigree probably for the Eytons as "Tudor 25(A2).