Corrections to the pedigree of Aske

[James Cummings]

Dear Will, Pat and other interested parties,


It would appear that Hugh II de Aske wasn`t the father of Conan de
Aske, who by wife Emma Boynton fathered Conan II de Aske, lord of Aske
who married Eleanor de Widdrington , of Richard de Aske , Seneschal of
Howdenshire and John de Aske of Ousethorpe , that person being rather
one Richard or Roger de Aske who was married to Juliana and who died
probably in 1366 , in which year He was granted a pardon for entering
into an agreement concerning the manor of Hardwick, parish of Hesleden,
in the County Palatine of Durham by which William de Martin, vicar of
Hesleden
and John Forster who held the reversion on said manor after the death
of John de Ogle
and his wife Margaret, granted said reversion to Richard de Aske and
his wife Julian with
remainder to John de Aske and to continue through their heirs.
Sources :: House of Commons Papers volume 33, page 289; The History of
the County
Palatine of Durham by William Hutchinson volume 3 page 5
see also Visitations of Yorkshire in the years 1563 and 1564 page 7

unsure of the exact relationship between Hugh II de Aske and
Richard als Roger de Aske

Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

[Wjhonson]

This represents an addition of a wife Julian for Richard Aske of Linton, esq, Bailiff Errant of Howdenshire 1362-

But I already had this Richard as a son of Conan, and John de Aske of Ousthorpe as Richard's son.

So now I have the descent:

Hugh II, Lord of /Aske/ -1317- and Merrick -1317-

* Conan /Aske/ of Aske, co York Second son of his father + Emma /Boynton/

** Richard /Aske/ of Linton; esq 1365; Bailiff Errant of Howdenshire 1362- living 1366 + Julian

*** John de /Aske/ of Owsthorpe; esq living and adult 1369 IPM 29 Jul 1395 + Joan de /Shelvestrode/ heiress of her father

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[James Cummings]

Dear Will,
Regretably not the case. Hugh II de Aske wasn`t the
father of Conan , Richard and John Aske. Richard de Aske who was given
pardon by Thomas Hatfield, Prince - Bishop of Durham for accepting the
reversion of the manor of Hardwick in the parish of Hesleden, Durham
after John de Ogle and his wife Margaret should die instead of the
reversion going to William de Martin, vicar of Hesleden without the
Bishop having given his license in the 21th year of his Pontificate
(1365 or 1366) as Hatfield`s Ponticate began in May of 1345.
Yorkshire deeds 39: 198 speaks of the lease by Juliana, widow of Sir
Henry Feconand, knight of all the lands in
Gaytenby which had come to her in dower after the death of Roger de
Aske, her husband to a certain Ralph de Thornton, clerk for
a term of three years from Martinmas ( November 11), 1367. So
obviously I made some horrendous mistakes with the earlier
identification.

[Wjhonson]

I didn't say that Hugh was the father of Conan, Richard and John

The * indicate the NEXT descent, not brothers.
Read it again, with the understanding that each asterisk is the son of the previous

-----Original Message-----
From: James Cummings <jwc...@aol.com>

[John Watson]

Hi James and Will,

Richard de Aske must have had two wives then, because in 1348/9 his
wife was called Joan:

Westminster. Quindene of Michaelmas, 22 Edw. III, 1348. Quindene of
Easter, 23 Edw. III, 1349. William de Percy, chivaler, Thomas Playce,
chivaler, and William de Neusom, chaplain, quer., Richard de Ask and
Joan his wife, def., of the manor of Wele near Beverley, and of 9
messuages, 13 bovates and 46 acres of land, 18 acres of meadow, 80s.
rent, and the fourth part of one knight's fee in Houden, Grenayk,
Estryngton, Gilberdyke, Hythe, Southclyf, Bishopburton, Cotyngham,
Barrneby near Houeden, and Lynton near Balkholm : To hold to Richard
and Joan and the heirs of their bodies, as to the tenements, rent, and
fourth part, together with the homage and service of William de
Bolworth of Southclyf, Nicholas de Portyngton, chivaler, Thomas
Taillour of Barneby, John Oty of Grenayk, John son of Adam Oty of
Grenayk, John son of Adam del Park, Adam de Metham, Thomas son of
Rumphary [sic], Walter Graunger of Gilberdyke, John Godefray of
Wyghton and Joan his wife, Adam Aubenay, Agnes son of Richard Whippat
and Alice his sister, Adam Carpenter, Thomas Kede, Alan de Waghen,
Henry son of Adam de Blaktoft, Margaret de Holme, John le Fevre,
Robert le Milner, and Thomas de Wele, and their heirs; and as to the
manor (which William Bard and Margaret his wife hold as Margaret's
dower) after the death of Margaret; remainder, as to 4 messuages, 44
acres of land, 5 acres of meadow, and 49s. rent in Houeden, Barneby
near Houeden, Lynton near Balkholm, Grenayk, Estryngton, and
Gilberdyke, to the right heirs of Richard; and as to the manor and 5
messuages, 13 bovates and 2 acres of land, 13 acres of meadow, 31s.
rent, and the fourth part in Hithe, Southclyf, Bisshopburton, and
Cotyngham, to the right heirs of Joan. Katherine widow of Robert de
Lathum and Joan her sister put in a claim.
Yorkshire Archaeological Society, Record Series, Vol. 52, Feet of
Fines for Yorkshire, 1347-77 (1915) p. 19, No. 2

Regards,

John

[John Watson]

James,

Hugh II de Aske had a son called Roger de Aske:

27 March 1307, Roger son of Hugh de Ask came before the king, on the
morrow of Easter day, and sought to replevy his land in Marrik and
Ask, which was taken into the king's hands for his default before the
justices of the bench against the Abbot of St. Agatha, Conan de Ask,
and John de Ask.
Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward I, Vol V, 1302-07 (HMSO, London: 1908)
p. 529

Richard de Aske was the son of Conan de Aske (presumably Roger's
brother):

29 September 1362, Grant (tripartitite) by Richard de Ask' to Ralph de
Wresill', chaplain, and Richard de Gunneys, chaplain, and their
successors, chaplains of St Mary's chapel, Linton, of his manor of
Linton; 40s rent from the lands and tenements sometime held by Gilbert
de Lincoln' in Blacktoft, with right to distrain therefor, as
contained in Gilbert's charter; 2 messuages, 36 acres of land, and 20s
rent yearly, with service, from Thomas Sty and his heirs for the
tenement he holds of Richard in the same vill; 6s rent from Alice de
Metham and her heirs, with service, for the tenement she holds of
Richard in Eastrington; a messuage with adjacent croft in Newland; a
messuage and an oxgate of land in Barmby; a messuage and 2 acres of
meadow in Howden; and whatever Richard has in Greenoak, Eastrington,
Newland, Howden and Barmby; to be held by Ralph and Richard,
celebrating masses every day for the souls of William de Percy,
knight, Conan de Ask', the grantor's father, for the health of the
grantor while he live and for his soul after his death (&c), as
ordered by the grantor and his heirs, of the chief lords of the fees
for service used and wont in perpetuity. Witnesses: Thomas de Metham,
knight; Peter de Saltmarsk', knight; William Dayvill' of Burland,
Nicholas Roscelyn, William Lang'. Date: Linton next to Howden,
Thursday, Michaelmas 1362.
Durham Cathedral Muniments, Priory Register II, f.179v-181r

John de Aske was the son of Richard de Aske:

10 June 1362, Grant by Thomas, bishop of Durham, to Richard Dask and
John Dask his son of the office of bailiff errant of Howdenshire, for
the term of their lives, having power to appoint the three under
bailiffs; with the customary fees (&c), and a robe, specified, when
the bishop makes his general livery. By the hand of John de
Kyngeston', the bishop's chancellor. Date: Durham, 10 June, 35 Edward
III.
Durham Cathedral Muniments, Priory Register II, f.172v

Regards,

John

[John Watson]

James,

The descent of the Askes of Aske is something like this:

1. Hugh II de Aske (died ca. 1302)

2. Roger de Aske (died after 1317)

3. Thomas de Aske (died after 1343)

4. Conan I de Aske m. Emma Boynton

5. Conan II de Aske (ca. 1347 - 1410) m. Eleanor Widdrington (d. 5 Oct
1428)

6. Roger Aske (ca. 1389 - 1437) m. Elizabeth Pert (d. bef. 1427)

7. Conan III Aske (ca. 1405 - 1465) m1. dau of Thomas Saville, m2.
Katherine dau. of Christopher Conyers.

A complication in this descent is that Thomas de Aske also had a son,
Sir Roger de Aske who was alive in February 1344. It is not clear
whether Roger or Thomas was the father of Conan de Aske I.

Regards,

John

[James Cummings]

Dear Will,
Conan Aske who married Emma Boynton, Richard de
Aske of Linton and John de Aske of Ousethorpe were in fact brothers ,
remember Richard de Aske `s January 1369 will? John was clearly bis
brother and Conan II de Aske, who succeeded to Aske and Marrick was
their nephew , son of Conan and Emma Boynton according to the
biographical information given about him in the Grosvenor - Scrope
controversy. However, I noticed a mention of a Richard Conandsone de
Aske changing his name to Richard de Aske in 1340 according to a list
of name changes included in a work on the family of Baildon of Baildon,
so perhaps Hugh II de Aske had a Conan who died say 1340, followed by
this Conan`s son
Richard or Roger de Aske who succeeded either his father or
grandfather, married Juliana and held Aske, Marrick, and Gatenby until
about 1366, when grandson Conan II (?III) succeeded under the apparent
guidance of his uncles.

[Wjhonson]

1307 is too early for Roger to be of Merrick and yet a son of the Hugh who himself was of Aske and Merrick in 1317
How about another Hugh :)

-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 24, 2012 4:38 am
Subject: Re: Corrections to the pedigree of Aske

[Wjhonson]

Please repeat the 1317 item, somehow that's gotten lost in my database

-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 24, 2012 5:00 am
Subject: Re: Corrections to the pedigree of Aske

[Wjhonson]

the Jan 1369 item is an IPM of Richard de Aske, not a will
I believe it only mentions his heir to be John without an age given (or if so i didn't record it)

-----Original Message-----
From: James Cummings <jwc...@aol.com>

To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>; wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 24, 2012 7:48 am
Subject: Re: Corrections to the pedigree of Aske

[James Cummings]

Dear John Watson and Will,
Following is a updated pedigree
of the Aske family
1. Wihomar, Seneschal of the
honor of Richmond, held Aske, Marrick and Leyburne
2. Roger I de Aske, lord of
Aske and Marrick m Whitemal de Dalton , younger brother of Warner de
Leybourne, Seneschal of Richmond)
3 Conan I de Aske, lord of
Aske and Marrick m1st Sibyl de Anlaby, 2nd Agnes NN
4 Roger II de Aske, lord of
Aske and Marrick m Alice , daughter and co- heir of Roger de Gatenby of
Gatenby
5 Roger III de Aske, lord of
Aske and Marrick m NN
6 Hugh I de Aske, lord of
Aske married Cecilia (died 1304)
7 Roger IV de Aske, lord of
Aske (died 1314) married Christiana NN
8 Hugh II de Aske succeeded
his father ; unsure if Thomas was his son
7 Conan de Aske (dead by 1342)
m NN
8 Roger V de Aske, lord of
Aske, Marrick and Gatenby (died 1366 ?) m Juliana NN (though perhaps
son of Thomas ? )
8 Conan de Aske (dead by 1367)
m Emma Boynton ; descendants were lords of Aske, Marrick and Gatenby
8 Richard de Aske ( died
January 1369) m Joan NN ; great grandfaher of Richard de Aske, 1st Aske
of Aughton
9 John de Aske of Ousethorpe
married Joan Shelvestrode

[Wjhonson]

Okay what document gives you "Conan son of Conan"
Or are you assuming that position ?

-----Original Message-----
From: James Cummings <jwc...@aol.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>; wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 24, 2012 10:06 am
Subject: Re: Corrections to the pedigree of Aske

[James Cummings]

Dear Will,
Richard Aske`s Durham IPM of 4 January 1369 named
Conan de Aske , (ae 21) to be his cousin and next heir which would tend
to be a very close relative even if John of Ousethorpe is his son and
Conan is next heir after him. so Yes, I suppose there could be
another solution, but what ?

[Wjhonson]

I'm always wary of relying too much on reconstructions as if they were iron-clad.
Let's say that John was Richard's son, and Conan was Richard's nephew.

Depending on how Richard held his various lands, some may have only been for life, with Conan as remainder, while others went to Richard's son John.

-----Original Message-----
From: James Cummings <jwc...@aol.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 24, 2012 1:08 pm
Subject: Re: Corrections to the pedigree of Aske