Belgrave of Belgrave some tidbits
wjhonson
happened to add some details on the Belgrave family of Belgrave, co
Leics.
Starting with John Belgrave who m Katherine Glene, the family has
royal ascent as follows:
John Belgrave son of
William Belgrave (ff 22H6) m Margaret Willoughby
Daughter of
Sir Hugh Willoughby, Knt of Wollaton d 15 Nov 1448 m Isabel Foljambe
son of
Edmund Willoughby m Isabel Annesley (her will dated Oct 1415, probate
23 Apr 1416)
Son of
Sir Edmund Willougby of Wollaton (Notts.) m Alice Somerville
son of
Sir Richard Willoughby m Joan de Grey
son of
John Grey Lord Grey of Rotherfield, Oxon m Catherine FitzAlan
At this point I'm sure you all have the further ascents, four of his
great-great-grandparents have royal descent, including the infamous
Ida Longespee.
My post however is not to repeat this past history
John Belgrave m Katherine Glen "co-heiress of her father"
and their son
Richard Belgrave m Margaret Cotton, dau of John of Hanstall
I have three children so far for Richard and Margaret: Dorothy
(Belgrave) Cave Saunders; John Belgrave m Joan Swyke "heiress of her
parents"; Katherine (Belgrave) Andrews
John Belgave, by Joan Swyke had a son
George Belgrave, esq of Belgrave, Leics who married
1) Dorothy Saunders by whom no issue?
2) Mary Chantrell "co-heiress of her father"
3) Joan Farnham
By his third wife he had Robert (I don't know of any wife or children
for Robert), and Francis Belgrave who m Katherine Knollys, dau of
Richard Knollys of Cold Ashby.
However by his second wife, George had his son and heir Ambrose
Belgrave of Belgrave, co Leics. who m Jane Stoughton and had a son and
heir George who maried the "daughter of Secretary Wilson" (can anyone
identify who this is?) and had a son George.
Now after all that repetition, comes something new to me.
Ambrose was not only heir of his father, but Ambrose died *in* 1571.
He has a monument tablet at Belgrave. Also he has a will dated 1571
But that's not all! Ambrose Belgrave was a *minor* in 4/5 P and M.
There is a grant in CPR for his wardship and marriage as the minor
heir of George that year.
This significantly narrows the whole birth and marriage chronology.
It might help even more if someone can accurately place this
"Katherine Knollys dau of Richard Knollys of Cold Ashby" with some
dates.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
Belgrave.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
> Here we go Lucretia, daughter of Secretary Wilson, married George
> Belgrave.
>
>
> Will Johnson
Oh look this touches Prince William.
Mary Wilson, secretary Thomas Wilson's other daughter, married as her
second husband Sir Christopher Lowther of Lowther. Chris is in
William's ancestry, but because of his *first* marriage with Eleanor
Musgrave (d 1597), so this adds some chronology to this section of the
network.
Will Johnson
letiTi...@gmail.com
wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
> As I continue to ...... not give a damn about repeated request and examples
> of what it can cause----cross post and keep fingers crossed that some eager
> beaver on another group will dump a load of garbage on gen-med
the original post read,
As I continue to survey primary and secondary sources for information
relative to the birth and death dates of Edward of Angoulême, I've
encountered the following contemporory record ...
So, what gives?
Leaping Leo LEO RETARDED creates a FAKE MESSAGE from SGM's scholar
what is so lame brain about you, Leo?
you are a piece of crap, garbage, veritable s**t, excrement, not
worthy of us
please delist, you absolutely worthless A$$
you are pond scum, vile puke, worse than vomit
to create lies about scholars, you dimwit and your phony s**k up,
Wile
E CoJote
every one who reads these message boards knows you for what you are,
a frightened voice deep in the throes of bi-polar alzheimer's loss of
faculties
persiflage, persiflage, persiflage
~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne
http://Back-stabbing Ancestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval
Robert O'Connor
"wjhonson" <wjho...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6a1a7a72-5ba5-43af...@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Recently in speaking of various families like Cave and Saunders, I
> happened to add some details on the Belgrave family of Belgrave, co
> Leics.
>
> Starting with John Belgrave who m Katherine Glene, the family has
> royal ascent as follows:
> John Belgrave son of
> William Belgrave (ff 22H6) m Margaret Willoughby
>
> Daughter of
> Sir Hugh Willoughby, Knt of Wollaton d 15 Nov 1448 m Isabel Foljambe
> son of
> Edmund Willoughby m Isabel Annesley (her will dated Oct 1415, probate
> 23 Apr 1416)
Can you identify in which court the will of Isabel was proved?
>
> Son of
> Sir Edmund Willougby of Wollaton (Notts.) m Alice Somerville
> son of
> Sir Richard Willoughby m Joan de Grey
> son of
> John Grey Lord Grey of Rotherfield, Oxon m Catherine FitzAlan
>
This is the first time I have seen a Grey wife ascribed to Sir Richard
Willoughby. From what I have been able to glean Sir Richard Willoughby had
three wives:
1.Isabel (Died 1332), d. of Sir Roger de Morteyn, Kt., of Wollaton, Co
Notts. & Dunsby, Co. Lincoln & his wife Isabel, d. of William Touchet
2.Joan (M 1st Sir Bertram de Monbourcher, Kt., who died 1332. She Died
1342), d. of Sir Guiscard de Charron, Kt., of Horton-in-Blyth,
Northumberland, & his wife Alice, d. of Sir Thomas de Lucy, Kt., of
Cockermouth, Cumberland ; and
3.Elizabeth (M 1st Richard Champernowne, Esq., of Modbury, Devon).
What is your source for a marriage to Joan de Grey?
Regards
Robert O'Connor
wjhonson
> I went back and looked at Shaw, and it does show these Cottons and
> Belgraves as having a line from Nicholas Fitzherbert who married (1)
> Alice Booth or Bothe --
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=mZ02AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA226&dq=%22nicholas...
>
> Looks like some other ancestral names through this connection would be
> Grendon, Chadesden, Montgomery, Kniveton, Longford, and Downes.
Also a reference here
http://books.google.com/books?id=mZ02AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA230&dq=cotton+of+redware&as_brr=1
wjhonson
refs to Hampstall Ridware
wjhonson
regarding Panfield Hall and the Cotton family
http://books.google.com/books?id=deQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA108&dq=Cotton+of+Panfield&as_brr=1
I'm *still* not fully understanding the Vis' on these people.
One interesting Vis remark is that this Thomas Cotton who sold off
Panfield, was also married to "Anne Warner, daughter of Henry Warner
of Milden Hall"
I think some of us are aware what this would mean, if it can be backed
up.
If this here is that same Henry Warner who d 6 May 1617 and whose wife
was Mary Wingfield
then we have hundreds of new connections just waiting to be connected.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
> And here we can make an *attempt* to figure out the confusion
>
> I'm *still* not fully understanding the Vis' on these people.
>
> One interesting Vis remark is that this Thomas Cotton who sold off
> Panfield, was also married to "Anne Warner, daughter of Henry Warner
> of Milden Hall"
>
Yes excellente !
Here we see Henry's Will
http://books.google.com/books?id=AT8GAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA299&dq=warner+of+mildenhall&as_brr=1#PPA299,M1
and he says "My daughter COTTON".
Wheeeeeee
wjhonson
her to Scotland instead.
Mary Saunders, dau of
Dorothy Belgrave, dau of
Margaret Cotton, dau of
John Cotton of Hampstall Ridware, son of
Joan Venables
At this point, an aside. Although the Vis shows his mother as
"Elizabeth" Venables, it also states that she was "sister and co-h to
her brother Hugh" which I believe is not possible. So here instead of
making her the same as Elizabeth (Venables) Bostock, which probably
isn't possible either, I've decided that Elizabeth might be an error
for Joan.
Joan Venables, dau of
Parnel Dutton, dau of
Elizabeth le Boteler, dau of
Alice Plumpton, dau of
Sir William Plumpton, son of
Sir Robert Plumpton, son of
....oops I seem to have lost my way here.
Evidently I'm still carrying a Scots-Royal descent that's been pruned.
wjhonson
> Sir William Plumpton, son of
> Sir Robert Plumpton, son of
>
> ....oops I seem to have lost my way here.
> Evidently I'm still carrying a Scots-Royal descent that's been pruned.
No I see. It's not Robert that's the royal....
Sir William Plumpton, son of
Lucy de Ros, dau of
Sir William de Ros, son of
Sir William de Ros, son of
Isabel "of Scotland", dau of
William the Lion, King of Scotland