C.P.Addition: Joan Peverel, wife of John Engaine, 1st Lord Engaine
Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com
Complete Peerage, 5 (1926): 75-77 (sub Engaine) has a good account of
the life history of Sir John Engaine, 1st Lord Engaine, died 1358.
Regarding his wife, Joan, the following information is provided:
"He married, soon after 12 Nov. 1318, Joan, daughter of Sir Robert
Peverel, of Castle Ashby, Northants, by Alice, his wife ... On 19
March following [1357/8] the escheator in co. Leicester was ordered to
take the fealty of Joan, and the manors which she and her husband had
held jointly at his death, were liberated to her."
Thus, Complete Peerage indicates that Joan Peverel, widow of Sir John
Engaine, was last known to be living 19 March 1357/8.
The following record has been located in the helpful online A2A Catalog
(http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp). It consists of a grant dated
30 June 1359 from Sir William Bernake to Lady Joan, "formerly wife of
John Engayne, Knt." and other parties. Lady Joan Engaine in this
document can readily be identified as Joan Peverel, widow of Sir John
Engaine, 1st Lord Engaine, as her daughter Mary was the wife of this
Sir William Bernake. The conveyance is likewise witnessed by Lady Joan
Engaine's son, Sir Thomas Engaine. This record appears to be a
settlement by Sir William Bernake of various Bernake family properties
on feoffees.
Thus, this record proves that Joan Peverel, wife of Sir John Engaine,
was living as late as 30 June 1359.
Various records involving Sir William Bernake, husband of Mary Engaine,
can be found in MSS of the Duke of Rutland, 4 (Hist. MSS Comm. 24)
(1905): 104, 121, 127, 129, 144, 166. These items include two charters
issued by Sir William Bernake himself, which indicate that his
principle seat of residence was at Barkston, Leicestershire. Complete
Peerage, 5 (1926): 79 lists various properties associated with this
Sir William Bernake, but not Barkston, Leicestershire. Barkston is,
however, plainly included in the 1359 grant of Sir William Bernake to
Lady Joan Engaine and other feoffees.
A chart displaying the descendants of Sir William Bernake, of Barkston,
and his wife, Mary Engaine, for several generations is included in
Complete Peerage, 5 (1926): 80. It traces the Bernake line down to the
four daughters and co-heiresses of John Broughton, of Toddington (died
1518). I haven't traced the Broughton co-heiresses, but I know that
John Broughton's daughter, Katherine, wife of William Howard, Lord
Howard of Effingham, has a good many descendants.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
COPY OF ITEM FROM A2A CATALOG:
Northamptonshire Record Office: Fitzwilliam (Milton) Charters
Reference: F(M) Charter/2033
Creation dates: S aft Nativity of St John Bapt [30 June] 33 Edw III
[1359]
Scope and Content
GRANT by William Bernak, Knt. to Dom. Joan, formerly wife of John
Engayne Knt., Dom.William Bernak, parson of the church of Bullewyk
[Bulwick], and Dom.William de Alyngton, parson of the church of Paunton
Magna, of the manors of Blatherwyk, Northamptonshire, Berkeston,
Leicestershire, Cathorp cum Sugbrok and Randeby, Lincolnshire, and of
all messuages, lands, etc. which Nicholas and Richard brothers of the
said William Bernak hold in Croxton Lincolnshire for term of their
lives, in remainder to the same Joan, William and William.
Witn. Dom. Thomas Engayne, Robert Mounteney, Richard Grey of Landeford,
Knts.; William Brenghirst, of Barkeston.
Seal.
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< I haven't traced the Broughton co-heiresses, but I know that
John Broughton's daughter, Katherine, wife of William Howard, Lord
Howard of Effingham, has a good many descendants. >>
Speaking of William, Lord Howard and his wives Catherine Broughton and
secondly Margaret Gamage, can any dates be assigned to the two marriages?
Thanks
Will Johnson
Leo van de Pas
If you go to my website you will find dates, not as defined as you and I
would like it, but they give some idea. You will also find the secondary
sources I used.
Hope it helps.
Best wishesd
Leo van de Pas
Leo van de Pas
Sometimes you do give pearls. If only you could stop your ranting and stick
to the points.
The pearl you gave here is the remark about CP V 80 giving the list of
descendants, you steered me to it and thank you for that. I hope you realise
that many people are turned off your messages because you never know what
you will get----abuse or something interesting.
----- Original Message -----
From: <royala...@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com
> Dear Douglas,
>
> > The pearl you gave here is the remark about CP V 80 giving the list of
> descendants, you steered me to it and thank you for that.
You're quite welcome, Leo. I assume Sir William Bernake and his wife,
Mary Engaine, are ancestral to Prince Charles and/or Princess Diana.
Right?
DR
Leo
From: <royala...@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: C.P.Addition: Joan Peverel, wife of John Engaine, 1st Lord
Engaine
> "Leo van de Pas" wrote:
<snip>
> You're quite welcome, Leo. I assume Sir William Bernake and his wife,
> Mary Engaine, are ancestral to Prince Charles and/or Princess Diana.
> Right?
>
> DR
=====Yes, you are correct Prince William is a descendant. The extinct Dukes
of Bolton are descendants and several knights of the Garter and so are the
present Dukes of Westminster, Grafton, Devonshire, Rutland, Leinster,
Northumberland, Norfolk, Richmond, Abercorn, Hamilton, Buccleuch,
Gloucester, and even the princely branch of the Esterhazy family.
Rick Eaton
In your look at the Peverels in CP, by any chance did you see any data for
Peter Peverel, who was the warder (?) of Peter de Eyton III (c. 1250 and
before) during the latter lord's minority?
If so, I would appreciate it very much if you would share it.
Many thanks.
Rick Eaton
"Rick Eaton" eaton...@sbcglobal.net
Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com
As a followup to my earlier post, I thought I'd post the two charters I
found which were issued by Sir William Bernake (living 1372), of
Barkston, Leicestershire.
"January 1358. Charter of William Bernake of Barkeston, knight,
leasing Stacicroft in Barkeston to Belvoir Priory for sixty years, the
convent releasing to him, during that term, a rent of forty
gillyflowers due for a portion of his garden. Hiis testibus: Willelmo
de Brimhirste de Barkeston; Johanne Stedman." [Reference: MSS of the
Duke of Rutland, 4 (Hist. MSS Comm. 24) (1905): 127].
"January 1359. Charter of William Bernak' knight, of Barkeston,
leasing Paticroft there, for 60 years, to Belvoir Priory. Hiis
testibus: Willelmo de Brunhirste de Barkeston; Johanne Stedman; Johanne
Belhous." [Reference: MSS of the Duke of Rutland, 4 (Hist. MSS Comm.
24) (1905): 129].
Checking various online databases, I note that virtually all of them
claim that Sir William Bernake, of Barkston (husband of Mary Engaine)
was the son of John Bernake, Knt. (died 1346), of Tattershall,
Lincolnshire, and Bokenham and Besthorpe, Norfolk, by his wife, Joan,
daughter of John Marmion, Knt., 2nd Lord Marmion. Sir John Bernake and
his wife, Joan Marmion, did in fact have a son named William, but he
died without issue in 1360, leaving his sister, Maud Bernake, wife of
Ralph Cromwell, Knt., 1st Lord Cromwell, as his sole heiress.
Consequently, the parentage and ancestry of Sir William Bernake, of
Barkston, Leicestershire, must be sought elsewhere.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
wils...@paradise.net
royala...@msn.com" <royala...@msn.com> wrote:
From Knights of Edward I
BERNAK, Sr William de, Kt. Arg. A fesse and 3 bemaks ~acle geese) sa.
Leic. (Parl). Quittance of eyre, Yorks., 19 Feb. 1298 (C.R.). Wm. de
Bernake of Blathenvicke, armiger, having £20 lands in Northants., sumd
to serve over seas 7 Jy. 1297 (P.W.). Knighted with Edw., P. of Wales,
22 May 1306 (Shaw). Holds 1/40 Kt Fee at Besthorp, Norf., of Joan de
.Driby. heiress of Tattersale lands. 8 Mar. 1809 (C.R.). A joint lord
of Attleburgh and klethersett, Norf., of Blatherwick and Laxton,
Notts., and of N. Dalton. York&., 1316 (P.W.). Sumd as a Kt. of Leic.,
Lincs, Norf., and Yorks., to Gt. Council at Westminister 9 May 1324
(P.W.). He died in Ap. 1339, leaving s. h. John Bemak. who left by his
w. Joan, d. coh. of John Mannyon. d. h. Maude, w. of Ralph de
Cromwell.
Brendan Wilson
New Zealand
To Reply: remove [.] from around the dot. Stops Spam
Researching: Lowther, Westmoreland. Clifford, Cumberland /Yorkshire. Brennan, Kilhile, Ballyhack Wexford. Fitzgibbon, Kingsland French Park Rosscommon,Ireland. Prendergast & Donohue, Cappoquin Lismore, Waterford. Starr & Turner, Romford Essex,England.
Peters, Hamburg & Ballarat Victoria.Lund, Hamburg.Lowther & McCormack,Dublin.
Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com
As a followup to my original post on the Bernake-Engaine families, I've
determined that Sir William de Bernake, husband of Mary Engaine, was
the son of a John de Bernake as indicated by the following record:
Date: 5 November 1351.
"William son of John de Bernak, knight, has like letters nominating
William de Bernak, parson of the church of Blatherwyk, and Simon de
Sutton of Blatherwyk [his attornies in England] for the same time [one
year]." [Reference: Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1350-1354 (1907): 171].
Sir William de Bernake's father, John de Bernake, resided at Barkston,
Leicestershire, as indicated by the following record:
PRO Document, C 143/238/31:
John Bernak to make an exchange of lands in Barkstone with the Prior
and Convent of Belvoir. Date: 10 Edward III [1336/7]. [Reference:
http:// www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp].
It should be noted that John de Bernake, of Barkston, Leicestershire,
is a separate and distinct person from another contemporary John de
Bernake, Knt. (died 1346), of Buckenham, Besthorpe, and Hethersett,
Norfolk, who married Joan, daughter of John Marmion, Knt., 2nd Lord
Marmion.
A proof of age taken in 12 Edward II [1318/19] for Robert son and heir
of Adam de Welle includes the deposition of an earlier William de
Bernak, knight, aged 60:
"William de Bernak, knight, aged 60 agrees, and adds that at the feast
of St. Martin next before the said Robert [de Welle]'s birth he brought
his wife from the manor of Barleston [Barkston], co. Leicester, to his
manor of Blatherwyk." [Reference: Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem,
6 (1910): 118].
The elder Sir William de Bernake appears to be the "William de Bernake
of Blathenvicke, esquire, having £20 lands in Northants., summoned to
serve over seas 7 July 1297 (P.W.). He was knighted with Edward,
Prince of Wales, 22 May 1306 (Shaw)." [Reference: Moor, Knights of
Edward I; citation courtesy of Brendan Wilson]. William de Bernake "of
Barkston" appears as a witness to a deed in 1305, he being not yet
knighted; as "William de Bernak, knight," he served as a witness to
deeds dated 1306 and 1310 [Reference: MSS of the Duke of Rutland, 4
(Hist. MSS Comm. 24) (1905): 104, 120-121].
It seems probable that Sir William de Bernake, of Barkston and
Blatherwycke, who occurs 1297-1318/9, was the paternal grandfather of
Sir William de Bernake who married Mary d'Engaine. Care should be
taken to distinguish the elder Sir William de Bernake, of Barkston and
Blatherwycke, from a separate and distinct contemporary individual
named Sir William de Bernake, of Buckenham, Besthorpe, and Hethersett,
Norfolk, who married Alice, daughter of Robert de Driby, of Driby,
Lincolnshire.
Lastly, VCH Leicestershire 5 (1964): 124 traces the descendants of Mary
Engaine, wife of the younger Sir William de Bernake, down to the
Broughton, Howard, and Paulet families. This VCH account doesn't
provide the death date of Sir William de Bernake, husband of Mary
Engaine. However, Sir William was clearly deceased sometime before 13
February 1400, by which date his wife, Mary Engaine, had already
married (2nd) Thomas la Zouche [Reference: Calendar of Close Rolls,
1399-1402 (1927): 65-66].
Gordon Banks
Parliament as a knight of Leicester, Norfolk, Lincolnshire and
Yorkshire, 9 May 1324?
I assume the husband of Alice de Driby, since he was of Norfolk and she
of Lincolnshire, but your other William *was* of Leic. Moor seems to
have conflated the two Williams, since he gives under the same William
the reference you mentioned applying to William of Blatherwyk under the
same person as references applying to the William that married Alice de
Driby, such as holding a fief of Joan Tateshal, mother of Alice de
Driby.
Have you any idea of the connection between the two families?
On Sun, 2005-07-17 at 18:39 -0700, Douglas Richardson
--
Gordon Banks <g...@gordonbanks.com>
Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com
Gordon Banks wrote:
> Which William Bernake was the one Moor lists as being summoned to
> Parliament as a knight of Leicester, Norfolk, Lincolnshire and
> Yorkshire, 9 May 1324?
I think it was Sir William de Bernake the elder, of Barkston,
Leicestershire, who was summoned to the council in 1324. I know he had
lands in cos. Leicester and Northampton, and probably in Lincoln.
The other Sir William de Bernake (husband of Alice de Driby) hadn't yet
obtained his wife's inheritance. He held lands only in Lincolnshire.
> I assume the husband of Alice de Driby, since he was of Norfolk and she
> of Lincolnshire, but your other William *was* of Leic. Moor seems to
> have conflated the two Williams, since he gives under the same William
> the reference you mentioned applying to William of Blatherwyk under the
> same person as references applying to the William that married Alice de
> Driby, such as holding a fief of Joan Tateshal, mother of Alice de
> Driby.
Yes, Moor, has collapsed the two Sir William de Bernakes into one
person. This is a common problem with Moor. The William de Bernake
who held Blatherwycke, Northamptonshire was definately William de
Bernake, of Barkston, Leicestershire. He is a separate and distinct
person from the Sir William de Bernake who married Alice de Driby.
> Have you any idea of the connection between the two families?
Not yet. I know that Sir William de Bernake (husband of Alice de
Driby) is stated in sources to be the son of a Hugh de Bernake, of
Lincolnshire. I believe that is correct.
> Gordon Banks <g...@gordonbanks.com>