Re: Ancestry of Eva of Leinster: the Uí Dúnlainge
John P. Ravilious
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Murchad mac Finn
----------------------------------------
Death: ca 0972[9],[2]
king of Leinster (Laigen), 966-972
' M965, An army was led by Murchadh, son of Finn, King of Leinster,
into Osraighe.
M967, Ceanannas was plundered by Sitric, son of Amhlaeibh, lord of the
foreigners, and by Murchadh, son of Finn, King of Leinster.
M970, Murchadh, son of Finn, King of Leinster, was killed by Domhnall
Claen, son of Lorcan,
CS972, Murchad son of Finn, overking of Laigin, was killed by Domnall
Claen in treachery.
AI972, Death of Murchad son of Finn, king of Laigin. '[9]
' Murchad mac Finn (of the Uí Fáeláin branch of Uí Dúnlainge),
king
of Laigin, d. 972 [AU] [R.117c=LL334c (Rw.13, CGH.13); R.117d=BB.138a
(Rw.18, CGH.14); LL337f (CGH.423)] '[7]
' Murchad mac Finn, k. Laigin, d. 972 ' [AU[8]]
cf. Stewart Baldwin [The Henry Project[10]]
Children: Gormlaith (-1030)
Mael Mórda (-ca1014), king of Laigin
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1a Gormlaith ingen Murchada*[11]
----------------------------------------
Death: 1030
' Gormlaith ingen Murchada, d. 1030 ' [AT] [BS 189, 227[8]]
she m. 1stly Olaf Cuaran,
2ndly Máel Sechnaill mac Domnaill
3rdly; prob. as 3rd wife, Brian 'Boru'[10]
'In addition to being the wife of Amlaib Cuaran, she was also married
to Máel Sechnaill mac Domnaill, king of Mide (Meath) and king of
Ireland (d. 1022), and to Brian Boruma (#138) [BS 189, 227;
R.117c=LL.334c (Rw.14, CGH.13); LL334d (CGH.423)]'[11]
Spouse: Olaf 'Cuaran' Sigtryggsson of Dublin [1st husband]
Death: 0981[10]
Father: Sigtryggr of York (-0926)
Mother: NN
Children: Sigtryggr 'Silkiskeggi' Óláfsson (-1042) *
[* ancestor of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, and others]
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1b Gormlaith ingen Murchada*
(See above)
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Brian 'Boru' mac Cennedig, High King of Ireland [3rd husband]
Death: 23 Apr 1014, Battle of Clontarf[10]
Father: Cennédig mac Lorcáin (-0951)
Mother: Bé Binn ingen Aurchada
Children: Donnchad (-1064)
Bé Binn (-1073)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1b.1 Donnchad mac Briain
----------------------------------------
Death: 1064, Rome (d. on pilgrimage)[9],[10],[8]
king of Munster[10]
' Donnchad mac Briain, k. Mumain (Munster), d. 1065 ' [AU[8]]
'U1014.5
Cathal son of Domnall, king of Uí Echdach, was killed by Donnchad son
of Brian.'[9]
'U1014.6
A defeat was inflicted by Tadc son of Brian on Donnchad son of Brian
and Ruaidrí ua Donnocáin, king of Arad, was left dead.'[9]
'U1015.1
Domnall son of Dub dá Bairenn was slain in battle by Donnchad son
of Brian.'[9]
'U1034.5
Donnchad son of Brian ravaged all Osraige.'[9]
'U1064.4
Donnchad son of Brian, overking of Mumu, was deposed and died in Rome
on pilgrimage.'[9]
Children: Dearbforgail (-1080)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1b.1.1 Dearbforgail ingen Donnchada
----------------------------------------
Death: 1080[9]
' Dirborgaill ingen Donnchada, D. 1080 ' [AU] [BS 190, 229[8]]
'U1080.4
Derbhforgaill, daughter of Brian's son, wife of Diarmait son of Mael
na mBó, died in Imlech.'[9]
Spouse: Diarmaid mac Mael na mBó, King of Leinster and
High King of Ireland
Death: 7 Feb 1072, Battle of Odhbha[9],[8]
Father: Donnchad Mael na mBó mac Diarmaid (-1006), king of
Ui Cheinnselaig
Mother: Aife ingen Gilla Patraic
Children: Murchad (-1070)
Enna (-1092)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1b.1.1.1 Murchad mac Diarmata
----------------------------------------
Death: 1070, d.v.p.[9],[12]
Burial: Áth Cliath[9]
Occ: king of Dublin, 1052 - 1070
king of Dublin
heir of his father (d.v.p.)[12]
' Murchad mac Diarmata, k. Laigin & Dublin, d. 1070 ' [AU[8]]
' In 1052 Diarmait Mac Mael na mBo intruded his son Murchad as
king of Dublin,..' [Cosgrove II:22[12]]
'U1070.2
Murchad son of Diarmait, king of Laigin and the foreigners, died and
was buried in Áth Cliath.'[9]
Spouse: Sadb ingen Mac Bricc
Children: Donchad (-1115)
Gormlaith
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1b.1.1.1.1 Donchad mac Murchada
----------------------------------------
Death: 1115[12],[8]
Occ: King of Leinster 1090-1115
King of Leinster 1090-1115
'U1098.4
Diarmait son of Énna son of Diarmait, king of Laigin, was killed by
the sons of Murchad son of Diarmait, i.e. in the middle of Cell
Dara.'[9]
' Donnchad mac Murchada, k. Laigin, d. 1115 ' [AU[8]]
Gaelic: Donnchad mac Murchad
Spouse: Orlaith ingen Ua Bráenáin
Father: Gilla Michil Ua Bráenáin
Mother: Uchdelb ingen Cearnachain Ua Gairbita
Children: Enna (-1126)
Diarmaid (-ca1171)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1b.1.1.1.1.1a Diarmaid mac Murchada*
----------------------------------------
Death: ca 1 May 1171[13]
Occ: King of Leinster
King of Leinster
' Diarmait Mac Murchada, k. Laigin (Leinster), d. 1171 ' [AU[8]]
also known as 'Dermot MacMurrough'
last Irish King of Leinster (and clan chief of Ua Cennselaigh)
' M1137.12
The siege of Waterford by Diarmaid Mac Murchadha, King of Leinster,
and Conchobhar Ua Briain, King of Dal-gCais, and the foreigners of
Ath-cliath and Loch-Carman, who had two hundred ships on the sea.
They carried off with them the hostages of Donnchadh Mac Carthaigh,
of the Deisi, and of the foreigners of Port-Lairge. [14]
M1137.13
Conchobhar Ua Briain, lord of Thomond and Ormond, went into the house
of Diarmaid Mac Murchadha, King of Leinster, and left hostages there
for defending Desmond for him.' Annals of the Four Masters, 1137[14]
M1144.7
Conchobhar, son of Toirdhealbhach Ua Conchobhair, heir apparent to
the monarchy of Ireland, was killed at Bealach Muine-na-Siride, by
Ua Dubhlaich, lord of Feara-Tulach, for he considered him as a
stranger in sovereignty over the men of Meath. Toirdhealbhach Ua
Conchobhair gave West Meath to Donnchadh, son of Muircheartach Ua
Maeleachlainn; and he divided East Meath equally between Tighearnan
Ua Ruairc, lord of Breifne, and Diarmaid Mac Murchadha, King of
Leinster, and they remained thus under the protection of the
Connaughtmen. ' Annals of the Four Masters, 1144[14]
Restored to his throne by son-in-law Richard 'Strongbow, 1170
__________________________________
" Dermot McMurrough, or Diarmiud mac Murchada (both: dûr´mt mkmr´),
1110-71, Irish king of Leinster. He became involved in a complicated
feud, partly because he abducted a neighbor's wife, and in 1166 was
defeated and banished by the High King Rory O'Connor. Dermot
appealed
for help to Henry II of England, who refused him direct support but
allowed him to enlist a force led by Richard de Clare, 2d earl of
Pembroke, and other Norman barons in Wales. After Pembroke had
invaded (1170) and won much of E Ireland, including Dublin, he married
Dermot's daughter, Eva. He was a patron of the compilation of the
valuable Irish manuscript, the Book of Leinster. " [16]
Spouse: Mór ingen Muirchertach Ua Tuathail
Father: Muirchertach Ua Tuathail (-1164), king of Ui Muiredaig
Mother: Cacht ingen Loigsig Ua Morda
Children: Aoife [Eva] (-ca1189)
Urlachan
Conchobar (-ca1170)
Enna
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1b.1.1.1.1.1a.1 Aoife [Eva] ingen
Diarmata
----------------------------------------
Death: ca 1189[13]
'Evam Dermicii filiam' [Annales Hiberniae, A.D. 1171[15]]
heiress of Leinster
Styled Countess of Ireland, 1185; Countess of Striguil, 1186[13]
' Aife (Eve of Leinster) md. Richard Strongbow ' [BS 232[8]]
Spouse: Richard 'Strongbow' de Clare, Earl of Pembroke
Death: 20 Apr 1176, Dublin[13]
Birth: ca 1130[13]
Father: Gilbert de Clare (-ca1147)
Mother: Isabel de Beaumont (->1171)
Marr: ca 26 Aug 1171, Waterford[13]
Children: Isabel (-1220), m. WIlliam Marshal, earl of Pembroke
Gilbert (1173- d.s.p. <1189)
1. Stewart Baldwin, "Llywelyn AT - Part 8 of 9," 26 Nov 1998,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
2. T. W. Moody, F. X. Martin and F. J. Byrne, eds., "A New History
of Ireland," Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1984, Vol. IX, Part II:Maps,
Genealogies, Lists.
3. Stewart Baldwin, "Llywelyn AT - Part 7 of 9," 26 Nov 1998,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
4. Stewart Baldwin, "Llywelyn AT - Part 6 of 9," 26 Nov 1998,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
5. Stewart Baldwin, "Llywelyn AT - Part 5 of 9," 26 Nov 1998,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
6. Stewart Baldwin, "Llywelyn AT - Part 4 of 9," 26 Nov 1998,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
7. Stewart Baldwin, "Llywelyn AT - Part 3 of 9," 26 Nov 1998,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
8. Stewart Baldwin, "Eve of Leinster and Radnaillt of Dublin,"
27 July 1996 (restated 26 Feb 1998), cites Ban Senchus, AU and
other sources re: the ancestry of Aoife ingen Diarmaid, heiress
of Leinster, and wife of Richard 'Strongbow' de Clare.
9. "Annals of Ulster," University College Cork,
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/L100005/
project CELT: The Corpus of Electronic Texts
10. Stewart Baldwin, "The Henry Project (Ancestors of Henry II),"
sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/, extracted 13 August 2001.
11. Stewart Baldwin, "Llywelyn ap Iorwerth (Ancestor Table)," RootsWeb
(www.rootsweb.com), extracted 13 Sept 2000,
http://www.rootsweb.com/~medieval/llywelyn.htm
12. Art Cosgrove, ed., "A New History of Ireland," Oxford: Clarendon
Press, 1987 (Vol. II), Vol. II: Medieval Ireland, 1169-1534.
13. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint,
1982 (Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland
Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
14. "Annals of the Four Masters," University College Cork,
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/L100005/
project CELT: The Corpus of Electronic Texts, M1247.4: slaughter
of Echmarcach Ua Cathain by Magnus Ua Cathain.
15. "Annales Hiberniae," Dublin, Trinity College: MS E.3.20,
Annales Hiberniae. James Grace of Kilkenny Richard Butler (ed),
First edition [vii pp.+ 167 pp. + 14 pp. (appendices and index)]
Irish Archaeological Society Dublin (1842), University College
Cork,
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/L100005/
project CELT: The Corpus of Electronic Texts.
16. The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.
Copyright © 2002 Columbia University Press
John P. Ravilious
Hello All (with a note to Don & Todd),
The original (complete) message appears properly in the
newsgroup (Rootsweb), having been sent first to
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com. The attempt to send the message to
soc.genealogy.medieval in 2 parts has obviously failed, due to the
current problem....... whatever that may be.
To avoid eating more bandwidth, the original message can be seen
in its entirety at
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2006-01/1137722755
We now return you to your regular programming........
John
John P. Ravilious
Hello All,
The ongoing discussion re: Niall of the Nine Hostages, DNA, & c.
brings up the matter of specific documented (vs. alleged) descents
from the early Irish kings. One such descent is given below, that of
Aoife (or Eva), wife of William Marshall and daughter of Diarmaid mac
Murchada [aka 'Dermot MacMurrough'] from Dúnlaing, traditional
ancestor of ancestor of the Uí Dúnlainge of Leinster. The reasons
for commencing the record with Dúnlaing are shown under his name in
the pedigree.
A number of interesting individuals are included in this
particular lineage, including Gormlaith ingen Murchada
[1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1a], 3rd wife of Brian Boru and a
central figure in the history leading to Clontarf (1014). Besides
the Marshal descent as shown, she is also the ancestress of Llywelyn
ap Iorwerth, the well-known Welsh prince, by her son Sigtryggr
'Silky-Beard'.
As indicated, a number of sources have been used: I refer anyone
of the list with an interest in the matter to see the archives for
the messages and threads indicated (primarily the contributions of
Stewart Baldwin). The chronology that can be ascertained is not
problematic: from Fáelán mac Colmáin [d. 666, see #1.1.1.1.1.1] to
Aoife [d. ca. 1189] there is a span of 17 generations over approx.
523 years (birth dates not being available for a better count). The
average generation for this period is 30.7 years, which appears
reasonable - especially as the line is primarily male.
Please note also: this is only one of a number of lines tracing
back to the 6th century. Depending on the interest shown, others may
be produced for review.
Cheers,
John *
1 Dúnlaing
----------------------------------------
'Dúnlaing (also #4587584), ancestor of the sept of Uí
Dúnlainge, which monopolized the kingship of Laigin (Leinster) from
the seventh through the early eleventh centuries. [Note: As the
ancestor from whom the Uí Dúnlainge got their name, his existence can
be regarded as reasonably certain, and he probably lived in the
mid-fifth century. The official genealogies call him the son of Énnae
Niad, son of Bressal Bélach, son of Fiachu Ba hAiccid, son of Cathair
Már, at which point we are clearly in the mythical part of the
genealogy. Although the existence of Énnae and Bressal as father and
grandfather of Dúnlainge cannot be ruled out, neither can it be
accepted as probable. The official genealogy, which makes Dúnlaing a
first cousin of Énnae Cennselach (#9175936 below), ancestor of the Uí
Chennselaig (the other main powerful sect in Leinster during the
historical period), thus causing the two main Leinster septs to branch
off from each other just prior to the historical period, looks
suspicious, and is just as likely to be the invention of the later
pseudohistorians as genuine tradition.] [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18,
CGH.14); R.124b=LL.315c=Lec.91Ra=BB.132a (Rw.335, CGH.74); LL.337f
(CGH.423)] '[1]
Children: Ailill
Eochaid
1.1 Ailill mac Dúnlainge
----------------------------------------
'Ailill mac Dúnlainge (of Uí Dúnlainge), king of Laigin
(Leinster) [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18, CGH.14);
R.124b=LL.315c=Lec.91Ra=BB.132a (Rw.335, 338, CGH.74); LL.337f
(CGH.423)] '[1]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Children: Cormac
1.1.1 Cormac mac Ailella
----------------------------------------
'Cormac mac Ailella (of Uí Dúnlainge) [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18,
CGH.14); R.124b=LL.315c=Lec.91Ra=BB.132a (Rw.338, CGH.74); LL.337f
(CGH.423); WUD] [Note: He appears as king of Laigin (Leinster) in the
official king lists, but his actual status as king is doubtful. See
#286720.] '[1]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Children: Cairpre
1.1.1.1 Cairpre mac Cormaic
----------------------------------------
'Cairpre mac Cormaic (of Uí Dúnlainge) [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18,
CGH.14); R.124b=LL.315c=Lec.91Ra=BB.132a (Rw.338-9, CGH.74); LL.337f
(CGH.423); WUD] [Note: He appears as king of Laigin (Leinster) in the
official king lists, but his actual status as king is doubtful. See
#286720.] '[3]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Children: Colmán
1.1.1.1.1 Colmán mac Cairpri
----------------------------------------
'Colmán mac Cairpri (of Uí Dúnlainge) [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18,
CGH.14); R.124b=LL.315c=Lec.91Ra=BB.132a (Rw.338-40, CGH.74); LL.337f
(CGH.423); WUD] [Note: He appears as king of Laigin (Leinster) in the
official king lists, but his actual status as king is doubtful, and it
is quite likely that he, his father, and his grandfather were
retroactively added to the king lists by later Uí Dúnlainge
propogandists.] '[3]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Spouse: Fedelm ingen Óengusa
Father: Óengus
Mother: Lassi ingen Fergna
Children: Fáelán (-0666)
1.1.1.1.1.1 Fáelán mac Colmáin
----------------------------------------
Death: 0666[4],[2]
king of Laigin
'Fáelán mac Colmáin (of Uí Dúnlainge), king of Laigin, d. 666
[CS] [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18, CGH.14); R.124b=LL.315c=Lec.91Ra=BB.132a
(Rw.340, CGH.74); LL.337f (CGH.423); WUD] '[4]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Spouse: Sárnat ingen Echach
Father: Eochu mac Báeth
Children: Conall
1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Conall mac Fáeláin
----------------------------------------
'Conall mac Fáeláin (of Uí Dúnlainge) [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18,
CGH.14); LL.337f (CGH.423); WUD] '[4]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Spouse: Condadil ingen Crundmáel
Father: Crundmáel mac Fínáin
Children: Bran Mut (-0693)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Bran Mut mac Conaill
----------------------------------------
Death: 0693[5],[2]
king of Laigin [Leinster]
' Bran Mut mac Conaill (of Uí Dúnlainge), king of Laigin, d. 693
[AU] [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18, CGH.14); LL.337f (CGH.423); WUD] '[5]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Spouse: Almaith ingen Blathmaic
Father: Blathmac mac Eogain
Mother: Etain ingen Mongáin
Children: Murchad (-0727)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Murchad mac Brain Muit
----------------------------------------
Death: 0727[5],[2]
king of Laigin [Leinster], 715-727
'Murchad mac Brain Muit (of Uí Dúnlainge), king of Laigin, d.
727 [AU] [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18, CGH.14); LL.337f (CGH.433), WUD]
(also #35072) '[5]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Spouse: Conchenn ingen Cellaig Cualain
Father: Cellach Cualann mac Gerthide (-0715)
Mother: Mugain ingen Faílbe
Children: Donchad (-0728)
Faelan (-0738)
Bran Becc (-0738)
Muiredach (-0760) [ancestor of
Mor ingen Muirchertaig Ua Tuathail, wife
of 'Dermot mac Murrough' below
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Faelan mac Murchada
----------------------------------------
Death: 0738[5],[2]
king of Laigin [Leinster], to 738
'Fáelán mac Murchada, king of Laigin (ancestor of the Uí Fáeláin
branch of Uí Dúnlainge), d. 738 [AU] [R.117c=BB.138a (Rw.13, CGH.13);
R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18, CGH.14); LL337f (CGH.423)] '[5]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Spouse: NN
Children: Ruaidri (-0785)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Ruaidri mac Fáeláin
----------------------------------------
Death: 0785[2]
king of Laigin [Leinster], 776-785
'Ruaidri mac Fáeláin (of the Uí Fáeláin branch of Uí Dúnlainge),
king of Laigin, d. 785 [AU] [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18, CGH.14); LL337f
(CGH.423)] '[6]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Children: Muredach (-0829)
Diarmaid (-0832)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Diarmaid mac Ruadrach
----------------------------------------
Death: 0832[6]
younger son
king of Airthir Liphi
'Diarmait mac Ruadrach (of the Uí Fáeláin branch of Uí
Dúnlainge), king of Airthir Liphi, d. 832 [AU] [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18,
CGH.14); LL337f (CGH.423)] '[6]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Children: Muirecán (-0863)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Muirecán mac Diarmata
----------------------------------------
Death: 0863[2],[7]
king of Laigin [Leinster], 862-863
'Muirecán mac Diarmata (of the Uí Fáeláin branch of Uí
Dúnlainge), king of Laigin, d. 863 [AU] [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18,
CGH.14); LL337f (CGH.423)] '[7]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Children: Domnall (-0884)
Máel Mórda (-0917)
Cerball (-0909)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Máel Mórda mac Muirecáin
----------------------------------------
Death: 0917[7]
king of Airthir Liphi
younger son
'Máel Mórda mac Muirecáin (of the Uí Fáeláin branch of Uí
Dúnlainge), king of Airthir Liphi, d. 917 (killed in the Battle of
Cennfuait by Sitric ua Imair, #272) [AU] [R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18,
CGH.14); LL337f (CGH.423)] '[7]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Children: Broen (-0947)
Finn (-0923)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Finn mac Mael Mórda
----------------------------------------
Death: 0923[8],[7]
younger son
'Finn mac Máel Mórda (of the Uí Fáeláin branch of Uí Dúnlainge),
rígdamna of Laigin, d. 923 [AU] [R.117c=LL334c (Rw.13, CGH.13);
R.117d=BB.138a (Rw.18, CGH.14); LL337f (CGH.423)] [Note: There is some
disagreement about the exact meaning of the term rígdamna. "Prince"
or "royal heir" are two possible translations which have been
suggested.] '[7]
' Finn mac Mael Morda, d. 923 ' [AU[8]]
cf. Moody, A New History of Ireland IX:134, Kings of Leinster[2]
Children: Murchad (-ca0972)
[END of Part I: to be continued]
Tim Powys-Lybbe
<snip>
Thanks for the mighty pedigree.
> 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1b.1.1.1.1.1a.1 Aoife [Eva] ingen
> Diarmata
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: ca 1189[13]
>
> 'Evam Dermicii filiam' [Annales Hiberniae, A.D. 1171[15]]
>
> heiress of Leinster
> Styled Countess of Ireland, 1185; Countess of Striguil, 1186[13]
CP reports in X, 356, note (a) that she was not a genealogical heiress
as she had a brother who had surviving children.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
John P. Ravilious
You are more than welcome.
As to Eva/Aoife, I believe her legitimate brothers (Conchobar -
"Connor" - and Enna) both died without issue. The surviving son of
Diarmaid, according to my notes, was her illegitimate half-brother,
Domhnall Cáemánach mac Diarmata.
Under the 'looser' inheritance laws of the Irish, I assume it was
this line that succeeded to the chiefship (and any heraldic claims
associated therewith) ?
Cheers,
John
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> As to Eva/Aoife, I believe her legitimate brothers (Conchobar -
> "Connor" - and Enna) both died without issue. The surviving son of
> Diarmaid, according to my notes, was her illegitimate half-brother,
> Domhnall Cáemánach mac Diarmata.
This sounds like a correction for CP? Can you find some references for
this?
> Under the 'looser' inheritance laws of the Irish, I assume it was
> this line that succeeded to the chiefship (and any heraldic claims
> associated therewith) ?
"Genealogical heirs" may be defined as legitimate heirs.
For the heraldry I suspect the rules were not explicit then as heraldry
was only invented (c. 1125-1150) a few years before her birth.
Interestingly (to me at any rate) this has led me to look up Richard
fitz Gilbert, earl of Pembroke's arms in the Medieval Ordinary of
British Arms (pub 1996 by the Soc of Antiquaries), Vol II, p. 531 where
his arms are given as (plain field) six (plain) chevrons, these being
known from a surviving seal of RICARDI FILII GILLEBERTI on a charter of
c. 1170 that is now in Huntingdon Library. This contrasts with the
arms stated to be his by the then Clarenceux king of Arms of the College
of Arms in c. 1927 of: Argent, on a chief azure, three crosses patée
fichée at the feet argent; I wonder where they got those from?
(I had been wondering if there was any sign of a quartering with
MacDonagh, but then quarterings were a much later development.)
>
> Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
> > In message of 20 Jan, "John P. Ravilious" <the...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
John P. Ravilious
I will dig out the refs. re: Domhnall.
Concerning events in 1170, the Annals of Ulster give us these
tidbits concerning the son and grandson of Diarmaid mac Murchada, held
as hostages by Ruaidhri Ua Conchubhair (aka 'Rory O'Connor'):
' U1170.4
The hostages of Mac Murchadha, namely, his own son and his grandson,
that is, the son of Domnall Caemanach and the son of his
foster-brother, to wit, the son of Ua Caellaidhe, were killed by
Ruaidhri Ua Conchubhair, through suggestion of Tigernan Ua Ruairc.)
U1170.5
Ath-cliath was destroyed by Diarmait Mac Murchadha and by the
transmarine men he brought with him from the east to destroy Ireland,
in revenge for his expulsion over sea out of his own land and of the
killing of his son. Howbeit, they inflicted slaughter upon the
Foreigners of Ath-cliath and Port-lairgi and, on the other hand, many
slaughters were inflicted upon themselves. Moreover, Leinster and the
country of Meath, both churches and territories, were destroyed by them
and they took Ath-cliath and Port-lairgi.'
This does not state that Domhnall was illegitimate; I will locate
that, and post when it is found.
Cheers,
John
Stewart Baldwin
wrote:
>In message of 21 Jan, "John P. Ravilious" <the...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> As to Eva/Aoife, I believe her legitimate brothers (Conchobar -
>> "Connor" - and Enna) both died without issue. The surviving son of
>> Diarmaid, according to my notes, was her illegitimate half-brother,
>> Domhnall Cáemánach mac Diarmata.
>
>This sounds like a correction for CP? Can you find some references for
>this?
The fact that CP's account of Eve of Leinster is quite poor was
pointed out long ago by David H. Kelley, FASG in his article "The
Ancestry of Eve of Leinster" in "The Genealogist" (TG) 1 (1980), 4-27.
CP's mistakes on Eve were in turn largely due to the sloppy job done
by the old DNB on pre-Norman Irish lines.
If my memory is correct, Giraldus Cambrensis is the source that
Domnall was an illegitimate son of Diarmait.
Stewart Baldwin
mvernon...@yahoo.co.uk
John P. Ravilious wrote:
> The ongoing discussion re: Niall of the Nine Hostages, DNA, & c.
> brings up the matter of specific documented (vs. alleged) descents
> from the early Irish kings. One such descent is given below, that of
> Aoife (or Eva), wife of William Marshall and daughter of Diarmaid mac
> Murchada [aka 'Dermot MacMurrough']
Amazing work John- as always.
As this sprang from the DNA discussions, it forcibly reminded me of the
strange fact that my de facto sister-in-law is matrilineally, ergo
mitochondrially, descended from Eva of Leinster; and if there is one
such descent there are presumably many, many more. I say 'strange'
because it's been observed how a lot of these matrilineal lines
(including my own) tend to obscurity after fairly few generations- eg
QE II and Diana's; my sis-in-law isn't herself titled, but the lineage
only rarely strays from CP, and the 'paper-trail' seems sound. Whether
this will prove to be of use one day who knows- fortunately she has a
daughter of her own, who in turn has two daughters, so this particular
strand is continuing.
-Matthew
mvernon...@yahoo.co.uk
John Brandon wrote:
> I wonder if some of the 'regulars' would be willing to comment on their
> own matrilineal/ mitochondrial line. I find the topic very
> interesting. As I mentioned last May, my earliest known matrilineal
> ancestor was Agnes, daughter of the Revd John Hart, minister of
> Taughboyne, co. Donegal, Ireland (fl. late 1600s).
That's a lot better than my line, which currently terminates with one
Ann MacIver, who was alive- and fertile- in Dingwall (Scotland) in
1814. Unfortunately, certain name combinations are very common in the
Highlands so it may be difficult going any further; I have another
ancestor of the same name in the next generation, for instance.
Jwc...@aol.com
You suggest that Finn mac Mael Morda `s title rigdamna
probably translates as Royal Heir or Prince . The Righ or Ri is generally
translated as king so perhaps He , like Henry mac David de Scotia, Earl of
Huntingdon d 1152 was known as King Designate.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA
David Teague
6 generations, to a Martha Ann (Richardson) Hasty, b. in what was then Anson
Co., N.C., sometime around 1820.
David Teague
Doug McDonald
> As this sprang from the DNA discussions, it forcibly reminded me of the
> strange fact that my de facto sister-in-law is matrilineally, ergo
> mitochondrially, descended from Eva of Leinster;
very interesting: if she gets DNA sequenced, she will probably
win the oldest mtDNA sweekstakes, as at least in my files
the maternal line goes back two more generations from Eve of Leinster
Doug McDonald
Doug McDonald
>> a lot of these matrilineal lines (including my own) tend to obscurity after fairly few
>> generations- eg QE II and Diana's
>
> own matrilineal/ mitochondrial line.
Mine mtDNA dead end is a rather blah woman named Sarah Clawson,
d. 1847.
My father's maternal line, however, goes back to a woman
who may have been an Indian. We await a DNA test results of my cousin.
Doug McDonald