PA3/RPA Correction: Parentage of Agnes Strickland, Wife of Sir Thomas Curwen

[Brad Verity]

In the 3rd (2004) Edition of Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 188 (sub
Carleton), it is said that Sir Walter Strickland of Sizergh Castle
(bef.1498-1527) & Katherine Neville of Thornton Bridge (b. about 1501)
had "one son, Walter, Esq., and two daughters, Elizabeth (wife of
William Strickland) and Agnes (wife of Thomas Curwen, Knt.)." The
source for this appears to have been Nicholson & Burn 'History &
Antiquities of Westmorland & Cumberland' Vol. 1 (1777), p. 98-100.

But per the HOP bio of Sir Henry Curwen of Workington, son and heir of
Sir Thomas Curwen & Agnes Strickland, he was born May 1528, with his
date of birth estimated from his age at his father's IPM:
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/curwen-henry-1528-96

I have Katherine Neville of Thornton Bridge born 1499, per the Warde
of Givendale pedigree in Joseph William Walker's 'Yorkshire Pedigrees'
Vol. 3, pp. 432-434. But whether she was born 1499 or about 1501, it
is chronologically impossible for Katherine Neville to have been a
grandmother in 1528. Her son and heir Walter Strickland was born in
1516.

It seems that Nicholson & Burn confused two Sir Walter Stricklands of
Sizergh, and gave Agnes, wife of Sir Thomas Curwen, to the younger one
when she actually belongs a generation further back, as daughter of
the elder Sir Walter Strickland (d. 1506) & Elizabeth Pennington. This
Sir Walter & Elizabeth received a dispensation to marry on 14 July
1491, coinciding nicely with Sir Christopher Curwen & Margaret
Bellingham, the parents of Agnes's husband Sir Thomas Curwen, who
received a dispensation to marry on 3 August 1492:
http://archive.org/stream/testamentaebora05claygoog#page/n367/mode/2up

Moving Agnes Strickland a generation back now matches the Curwen
pedigree in Mervyn Evans James's 1965 book 'Change and Continuity in
the Tudor North: The Rise of Thomas First Lord Wharton'. James says of
Agnes "Her nephew [NOT brother - emphasis mine] was Walter Strickland
of Sizergh":
http://books.google.ca/books?id=q6fCSiOH9w0C&pg=PA47&dq=Agnes+strickland+Curwen&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DQY3UanQNIf2rAHxu4HoBw&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Agnes%20strickland%20Curwen&f=false

Finally, in his latest edition of Magna Carta Ancestry, Douglas
Richardson says the first husband of Agnes Strickland, wife of Sir
Thomas Curwen, was Henry Frowick, and cites a National Archives
document as evidence:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=8JcbV309c5UC&pg=PA407&lpg=PA407&dq=Henry+Frowick+married+Strickland&source=bl&ots=kunELWOT79&sig=tQzlp-PIKWuIhHQH_Nz3J4vV3cE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rP42Ubz6CYmSrQGRr4GICQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Henry%20Frowick%20married%20Strickland&f=false

Douglas doesn't further identify this Henry Frowick. It would appear
he was the younger son of Sir Henry Frowick of London (1447-1505) &
Margaret Leigh of Stockwell, and that he was born about 1496, and died
before May 1520, which also fits chronologically with Agnes being a
generation further back, even though the database linked to below
follows Nicholson & Burn and places her incorrectly:
http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I42038&tree=EuropeRoyalNobleHous

Elizabeth Strickland, wife of William Strickland of Boynton (d. 1598),
who also has a bio in HOP, does fit chronologically as a daughter of
Katherine Neville of Thornton Bridge:
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/strickland-william-1598

Cheers, ----Brad

[Brad Verity]

On Mar 6, 7:12 am, FDP...@aol.com wrote:
> Brad
> In my research to prove that the alleged wife of John Preston of the
> Manor, born 1511 (IPM of his father Thomas Preston who m. Anne
> Thornburgh), was not married to Margaret the daughter of Thomas Curwen
> and Agnes Strickand (asserted by Nicholson and Burn, Burke in various
> volumes, the LDS Ancestral file and adopted by countless legions of
> unsuspecting followers) I ran across the following in THE CURWENS OF
> WORKINGTON HALL. by  William Jackson, F.S.A. page 306
[snip]
> Thomas was Sheriff of Cumberland 28 Henry VIII. His first wife was
> Agnes, daughter of Sir Walter Strickland, by whom he had seven
> children. Agnes's mother was the daughter and heiress of Ralph
> Neville, of Thornton Briggs, and through this marriage the royal blood
> of the Plantagenets came into the Curwen house.

Dear Forbes,

Thank you for sharing your transcript of the interesting article on
the Curwens. But the author William Jackson, writing in 1880, was no
doubt simply following Nicholson & Burn from 1777 (since he provides
no new evidence), when he states that Sir Thomas Curwen's first wife
Agnes Strickland was the daughter of Katherine Neville of Thornton
Bridge. This erroneous parentage for Agnes has been perpetuated in
most genealogies up to the present day.

Per the 1928 book 'Genealogical Memoirs of the Family of Strickland of
Sizergh' by Henry Hornyold, p. 74: "By his marriage with Elizabeth
Pennington Sir Walter Strickland had issue as follows:--...Agnes
Strickland, the eldest daughter, married, as his first wife, Sir
Thomas Curwen of Workington...Agnes predeceased her husband and was
buried in Workington Church, leaving four children, viz.:-Henry, who
succeeded to Workington; William of Stainburn; Mabel, and Joan...In
some accounts of the Curwen family, notably in that by Jackson, Agnes
is erroneously stated to be the daughter of Walter next in descent in
the Strickland pedigree, and his wife Katherine Neville. Sir Thomas
Curwen's will and especially that of Agnes' mother, Elizabeth
Pennington, where she is named as the latter's daughter, besides other
evidences, makes the matter quite certain".

On p. 73, Hornyold states, "Sir William [Gascoigne of Cardington] died
about 1540, his widow [Elizabeth Pennington] surviving him until 1546.
On April 18th of that year she made her will, which was proved on
October 12th following ('Penningtoniana')." The dates of Elixabeth
Pennington's will & probate, and the year of her death, are additions
to Plantagenet Ancestry. 'Penningtoniana' is the privately printed
1878 book 'Penningtoniana, Pedigree of Sir Josslyn Pennington, Fifth
Baron Muncaster' by Joseph Foster.

"By Katherine Neville, Sir Walter Strickland had issue several
children as follows:--Walter Strickland, eldest son and heir...Thomas
Strickland was a second son. He is mentioned in his father's will
given at length in the Inquisition post mortem on Sir Walter, which
occurred on April 5th, 21 Henry VIII, 1530" [Hornyold, p. 81]

Per his IPM, Sir Walter Strickland died 9 January 1528, not 1526/7 as
in Plantagenet Ancestry.

In addition to the 2 sons, Sir Walter Strickland & Katherine Neville
had 3 daughters, all named in their father's will in his IPM: 1)
Elizabeth "the eldest daughter", married William Strickland of Boynton-
in-the-Wold, and had issue; 2) Anne, married 1st, as his 2nd wife,
Ralph Constable of St. Sepulchre in Holderness, married 2nd, Edward
Holme of Paull-Holme in Holderness, and had issue by both husbands; 3)
Mary "the youngest daughter', married Sir Lewis Dyve of Bromham,
Bedfordshire, and had issue. Maria Strickland's husband Sir Lewis Dyve
has a bio in HOP, here:
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/dyve-lewis-1516-92

The younger son Thomas Strickland and the second & youngest daughters
Anne & Mary Strickland are additions to Plantagenet Ancestry.

Cheers, ----Brad

[Brad Verity]

On Mar 6, 1:31 am, Brad Verity <royaldesc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Douglas doesn't further identify this Henry Frowick.  It would appear
> he was the younger son of Sir Henry Frowick of London (1447-1505) &
> Margaret Leigh of Stockwell, and that he was born about 1496, and died
> before May 1520, which also fits chronologically with Agnes being a
> generation further back, even though the database linked to below

> follows Nicholson & Burn and places her incorrectly:http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I42038&tree=Eu...

Many thanks to Hal Bradley who sent me pp. 253-254 of 'The Ancestry of
Mary Isaac' by Walter G. Davis. Davis says that Agnes, wife of Henry
Frowick of Gunnersbury, was the "daughter of Humphrey Strickland,
whose widow, Elizabeth, married secondly Sir Richard Cholmondeley". He
then provides details from the will of Henry Frowick, dated 4 December
1518, and proved 5 February 1520, where he made two of his executors
his wife Agnes & his father-in-law Sir Richard Cholmeley.

Davis is in error as to Agnes's father: Frowick's will is further
proof she was the daughter of Sir Walter (not Humphrey) Strickland,
whose IPM states that he died 16 September 1506 (another addition to
Plantagenet Ancestry). Sir Walter's widow (Agnes's mother) Elizabeth
Pennington Salkeld married, as her third husband, by contract dated 9
August 23 Henry VII [1508] (per Hornyold, p. 73, who cites Foster's
'Penningtoniana' as his source), Sir Richard Cholmley, Lieut. of the
Tower of London, who died 27, 28 or 29 December 1521, per his IPM
taken 27 March 1522 at York Castle.

I was wondering how a Strickland daughter from Westmorland married
into the Middlesex-based family of Frowick - it seems her stepfather
Sir Richard Cholmley was the key to arranging that match.

Thanks again, Hal, for sharing the Davis pages.

Cheers, ----Brad

[Renia]

On 06/03/2013 16:55, Brad Verity wrote:
> On Mar 6, 7:12 am, FDP...@aol.com wrote:
>> Brad
>> In my research to prove that the alleged wife of John Preston of the
>> Manor, born 1511 (IPM of his father Thomas Preston who m. Anne
>> Thornburgh), was not married to Margaret the daughter of Thomas Curwen
>> and Agnes Strickand (asserted by Nicholson and Burn, Burke in various
>> volumes, the LDS Ancestral file and adopted by countless legions of
>> unsuspecting followers) I ran across the following in THE CURWENS OF
>> WORKINGTON HALL. by William Jackson, F.S.A. page 306
> [snip]
>> Thomas was Sheriff of Cumberland 28 Henry VIII. His first wife was
>> Agnes, daughter of Sir Walter Strickland, by whom he had seven
>> children. Agnes's mother was the daughter and heiress of Ralph
>> Neville, of Thornton Briggs, and through this marriage the royal blood
>> of the Plantagenets came into the Curwen house.
>
> Dear Forbes,
>
> Thank you for sharing your transcript of the interesting article on
> the Curwens. But the author William Jackson, writing in 1880, was no
> doubt simply following Nicholson & Burn from 1777 (since he provides
> no new evidence), when he states that Sir Thomas Curwen's first wife
> Agnes Strickland was the daughter of Katherine Neville of Thornton
> Bridge. This erroneous parentage for Agnes has been perpetuated in
> most genealogies up to the present day.

Don't know if this helps:

Yorkshire Fines, (1526) Michaelmas Term, 18 Henry VIII

Thomas Curwen, esq., and John Lambart
v
Walter Strikland, kt., and Katherine his wife, one of the daughters and
heirs of Ralph Nevill de Thornton Brigge, esq., and Ann his wife, one of
the daughters and heirs of Christopher Warde, kt.

[Brad Verity]

On Mar 6, 10:59 am, Renia <re...@otenet.gr> wrote:
> Don't know if this helps:
> Yorkshire Fines, (1526) Michaelmas Term, 18 Henry VIII
>
> Thomas Curwen, esq., and John Lambart
> v
> Walter Strikland, kt., and Katherine his wife, one of the daughters and
> heirs of Ralph Nevill de Thornton Brigge, esq., and Ann his wife, one of
> the daughters and heirs of Christopher Warde, kt.

Thank you, Renia. Since Henry, the son & heir of Sir Thomas Curwen &
Agnes Strickland, was born in 1528, the fine above from 1526 may have
something to do with the marriage settlement of the couple.

Cheers, -----Brad

[Renia]

I think so, because it refers to a pile of land:

A third part of the manors of Thornton, Cundall, Letby, Givton, and
Kyrkby on the Hill, and 50 meassuages and 3 watermills, with lands in
the same and in Ledes, Burton, and Norton on the Clay, and a third part
of the moiety of the manors of Gyvyndale, Newby, Keswike, Giseley,
Essholte, and Grenehamerton, and of 60 messuages, a watermill and a
fullingmill with lands in the same and in Adwolton and Drightlyngton and
a third part of the moiety of the moiety of the manor of Osborn, and a
third part of the advowson of the Monastery of St. Leonard de Essholt,
and of the parish church of Giseley.

[John Higgins]

On Mar 6, 1:31 am, Brad Verity <royaldesc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>

> Finally, in his latest edition of Magna Carta Ancestry, Douglas
> Richardson says the first husband of Agnes Strickland, wife of Sir
> Thomas Curwen, was Henry Frowick, and cites a National Archives

> document as evidence:http://books.google.ca/books?id=8JcbV309c5UC&pg=PA407&lpg=PA407&dq=He...

>
> Douglas doesn't further identify this Henry Frowick.  It would appear
> he was the younger son of Sir Henry Frowick of London (1447-1505) &
> Margaret Leigh of Stockwell, and that he was born about 1496, and died
> before May 1520, which also fits chronologically with Agnes being a
> generation further back, even though the database linked to below

> follows Nicholson & Burn and places her incorrectly:http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I42038&tree=Eu...
>
.
>
> Cheers,                            ----Brad

The pertinent generations of the Frowick family are covered in
considerable detail by Walter Goodwin Davis in "The Ancestry of Mary
Isaac" (1955). He does identify Henry Frowick who married Agnes
Strickland as the son of Sir Henry Frowick (d. 1505) by his 2nd wife
Margaret Leigh. The younger Henry made a will dated 4 Dec 1518 which
was proved 5 Feb 1520. Much of the details of the will are given by
Davis.

However, Davis gives a slightly different identification of Agnes
Strickland than is given in the latest Richardson book mentioned
above. He says that Agnes was "daughter of Humphrey Strickland, whose
widow Elizabeth married secondly Sir Richard Cholmondeley". Davis
also notes that Sir Richard Cholmondeley [or Cholmeley] is mentioned
as an executor of the younger Henry's will, where he apparently is
termed "father-in-law" to Henry.

The same parentage for Agnes Strickland, wife of Henry Frowick, is
given in an account of the Frowicks in Frederick Charles Cass, South
Mimms (1877), p. 98.
http://books.google.com/books?id=UUdJAAAAYAAJ

This does more-or-less match the account of Agnes Strickland's
parentage - except for the key detail of naming her father Humphrey
rather than Walter. Interesting.....I don't know where Davis got
Humphrey.

FWIW a pedigree of Hornyold-Strickland of Sizergh in the 18th edition
of Burke's Landed Gentry (vol. 3, 1972, p. 872) supports the placement
of Agnes Strickland as discussed in this thread. It names the
daughters of the two Sir Walter Stricklands, although it doesn't give
their husbands' names. Agnes, mary, and Douce are assigned to the
elder Sir Walter, while Elizabeth Anna, and Maria are assigned to the
younger Sir Walter.

[TJ Booth]

Brad, John Higgins, Renia, Forbes etal,

Your assignment of Agnes Strickland as sister of Sir Walter m. Katherine
Neville is justified based on consanguinity as well as chronology. Baildon
of Baildon page 264-7 (re Warde of Givendale) adds more also.

Katherine Neville's birthdate would seem bef 26 Oct 1498 - the daughter's
ages were likely dated to an as yet unlocated IPM for Margaret Gascoigne,
Christopher Warde's wife. The daus ages vary dependent on which person's
IPM date is referenced. The 4 Feb 1522/23 IPM for Christopher Warde d. 13
Dec 1521 is transcribed on p. 264 of Baildon. In addition to a list of lands
it states : "His heirs were his daughter Joan, aged 34, wife of Edward
Musgrave knt, and his three granddaughters, children of a deceased daughter,
Anne Neyvell [Neville], viz. Katherine, aged 22 [b. bef Oct 26 1498], wife
of Walter Strickland Esq.; Joan, aged 21 [b. bef Oct 26 1499], wife of John
Constable esq.; and Clare Neyvill, aged 14 [b. bef 26 Oct 1506] on Oct 26
1521." [Citing IPM Chancery, series 2, vol 39 no 68; Exchequer series 2,
file 225.]

Baildon also notes "Ralph Neville, her [Anne Warde's] husband, died July
24 1522 seised of the manors of Thornton Brigg, Leckby, Cundall and
Kirkby-on-the-Moor (near Boroughbridge), Gipton and Leeds; his three
daughters were found to be his heirs. The list repeats the same ages from
Warde's IPM, although the daus were a year older in 1522 - "(1) Kathryn,
then aged 22, wife of Sir Walter Strickland of Sizergh; (2) Joan then aged
21, wife of Sir John Constable of Constable Burton; and (3) Clare then aged
14, wife of Sir thomas Neville of Holt. [citing Inq Post Mortem, series 2,
file 225.] Since Clare d.s.p., her 2 sisters shared the inheritance.

A complete transcription of the fine noted by Renia is also in Baildon.
[1] Likely a feoffment involving an earlier unstated transaction. It seems
to make Thomas Curwen and John Lambert close relations. Perhaps Lambert's
wife was another dau of Sir Walter and Eliz Pennington.

Not mentioned before, Thomas Curwen's dau Elizabeth m. William Musgrave,
the heir of the other half of the Warde estates via his mother Joan Warde.
This causes consanguinity problems if Katherine Neville were Agnes
Strickland's mother. Beyond consanguinity, there would also be 2 generations
difference in the marriage if she were.

1. Sir Christopher Warde d. 31 Dec 1521 m. Margaret Gascoigne [d. bef 26 Oct
1521?]

[Descent via dau Anne, assumes Agnes Strickland dau of Katherine Neville]
1.1 Anne Warde b. say 1480 m. Ralph Neville
1.1.1 Katherine Neville b. 1498 m. Sir Walter Strickland d. 9 Jan 1528.
1.1.1.1 Agnes Strickland b. say 1515 m. Thomas Curwen b. 1494
1.1.1.1.1 Eliz Curwen necessarily b. aft 1529, m. William Musgrave b. 1509
1.1.1.1.1.1 Sir Richard Musgrave b. Aug 1524 [thus before his mother in this
scenario]

[Descent via dau Joan]
1.2 Joan Warde b. 1487 d. 1542 m. Sir Edward Musgrave d. 1542
1.2.1 Sir William Musgrave b. 1509 d. 1544 m. Elizabeth [Jane in some
pedigrees] dau of Sir Thomas Curwen by 'Agnes daughter of Sir Walter
Strickland of Sizergh Knt.' Musgrave and his Curwen wife 'had an only child,
Sir Richard ' b. Aug 1524
1.2.1.1 Sir Richard Musgrave b. Aug 1524 [his bio in HOC 1509-88 confirms
his parentage p. 645 @
books.google.com/books?id=u_eIrJpc_T0C&pg=PA645]

Terry Booth
Chicago IL

Footnote
--------
[1] 1526, Michelmas term. Fine between Thomas Curwen Esq. and John
Lambert, plaintiffs; and Walter Strickland knt and Katherine his wife, one
of the daughters and heirs of Christopher Warde knt. deforciants; of one
third of the manors of Thornton, Cundall,Lecby, Gibton and
Kirkby-on-the-Hill, and 50 messuages etc., and with lands in the same
places, and in Leeds, Burton and Norton in the mire [Baildon adds 'the was
the Neville property']; and also one third of a Moiety of the manors of
Givendale, Newby, Keswicke, Gisely, Essholt and Grenehamerton, and of 60
messuages etc. lands, rents there and in Adwolton and Drightlynton, and one
third of a moiety of the manor of Osborn, and of one third of the advowsons
of the nunnery of St. Leonard of Essholt and of the parish church of
Giseley; to hold to Walter and Katherine and the heirs of their bodies, with
remainder to the right heirs of Katherine. [cites Feet of Fines, Yorks;
Michelmas 18 Hen VIII - online @
books.google.com/books?id=w2IDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA47 ]

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[Brad Verity]

On Mar 6, 2:15 pm, "TJ Booth" <tjbo...@aol.com> wrote:
>    A complete transcription of the fine noted by Renia is also in Baildon.
> [1] Likely a feoffment involving an earlier unstated transaction. It seems
> to make Thomas Curwen and John Lambert close relations. Perhaps Lambert's
> wife was another dau of Sir Walter and Eliz Pennington.

> --------
> [1]    1526, Michelmas term. Fine between Thomas Curwen Esq. and John
> Lambert, plaintiffs; and Walter Strickland knt and Katherine his wife, one
> of the daughters and heirs of Christopher Warde knt. deforciants; of one
> third of the manors of Thornton, Cundall,Lecby, Gibton and
> Kirkby-on-the-Hill,

[snip]

> to hold to Walter and Katherine and the heirs of their bodies, with
> remainder to the right heirs of Katherine. [cites Feet of Fines, Yorks;
> Michelmas 18 Hen VIII - online @
> books.google.com/books?id=w2IDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA47 ]

Dear Terry,

Many thanks for your post. It's very useful to have the details from
the Thornton Bridge IPMs. And thanks especially for transcribing the
1526 fine. So it wasn't a marriage settlement for Thomas Curwen &
Agnes Strickland at all. It's Curwen acting as a feoffee for his
brother-in-law Sir Walter Strickland in the settlement of Katherine
Neville's Thornton Bridge inheritance. Interesting. I also don't
know how John Lambert fits in. Per Hornyold, Mary, the 2nd daughter
of Sir Walter Strickland (d. 1506) & Elizabeth Pennington (d. 1546)
was unmarried as late as October 1532, so probably died a maid.
Unfortunately I didn't make a copy of the page (I had made these
copies at the FHL in Salt Lake City several years ago and just dug
them out a couple days ago) where Doulce, the 3rd daughter of Sir
Walter Strickland & Elizabeth Pennington, is discussed by Hornyold in
his 1928 book (p. 75).

Thanks & Cheers, ----Brad