Newbie checking in
Burgin
and its participants. After lurking for several months on the digest
mailing list, and working my way very slowly through the archives (I'm
up to October 1995), I have learned a great deal, not only about my own
lines, but about medieval genealogy in general. The intermittent
irrelevancies, overkill, and petty squabbling are a small price to pay
for the value of the discussions.
I am a newbie to this group, but not to genealogy. I have been having
fun with it since I was a teenager, roughly 50 years ago. I am about
300 pages deep into a book I am writing on my Burgin family. I have
tracked it back through Philip Burgin, who immigrated from Crediton,
Devonshire to Kent County, Maryland in 1678, to his gggrandfather
Richard Burgyn/Burgaine who m. 1563 in Tedburn St. Mary, Devon.
Richard was a laborer, but had owned property in Tedburn. He sold all
of his real estate (unfortunately, not specified) in a 1552 deed. Here
the parish registers run out, and I do not know how to trace the line
back further. The family was declared not armigerous in 1620, so there
are no visitation pedigrees. Devon wills were lost in WWII. There
are IPMs for Joan Burgeyn, relict of William, in 1537, and for Richard
Burgyn in 1551. These may or may not refer to the Tedburn St. Mary
family; I have not yet gotten access to the actual texts. Any
suggestions would be gratefully welcomed.
All of my known paternal 17th-century ancestors were in Virginia and
Maryland–not a Yankee or a Puritan in the lot :-) There are three
gateway immigrants among them: Diana Skipwith, m. Maj. Edward Dale,
Lancaster County, VA; Thomas Keene, Kent Island, MD and Northumberland
County, VA (through Gosnold, Naunton, Wingfield, and Vere); and Maj.
Henry Filmer, James City County and Warwick County, VA. Other
prominent colonial ancestors with long, but not particularly
aristocratic, pedigrees include Norris, Opie, Bickley, Webb, Booker, and
Purefoy.
My mother's family, Ramond, immigrated from the Languedoc to the
Mississippi Gulf Coast and then New Orleans in the mid-1850s. My late
uncle Charles K. Ramond wrote and published a book on them, _The Ramond
Family and Related Lines_ (1964). He established a connection with a
line published in _Nobiliaire universel de France, ou Recueil général
des généalogies historiques des maisons nobles de ce royaume_, by M. de
Saint-Allais, reprinted Paris 1873-1874. This line extends back to
Pierre-Raymond, seigneur de Folmont, "descendant of the early counts of
Toulouse (déscendant des anciens comtes de T.)" Needless to say, I
have searched among the descendants of the early House of Toulouse, but
unsuccessfully. I have no idea how reliable a resource the
Saint-Allais _Nobiliaire_ is, and would appreciate any comments on it.
As published, the Ramond/Raymond line connects by marriage with
Lagoursan, Anty, des Lacs, Fages, Chastaigner, Beauville, Mauléon,
Pellegrue, Durfort, Cazeton, Luzech, Rouzet, Poujoulat, Castelnau,
Favans, Fumel, la Barthe, Astarac, and other French and Provençal noble
lines. Chenaye-desbois, _Dictionnaire de biographie française_, and
the few other nobiliaires and armorials that I have found seem to
confirm at least bits and pieces of the published line. I was
delighted to learn recently (through this newsgroup) that there is a
microfiche copy of the index to the Bibliotèque nationale's Cabinet des
titres at the University of Tennessee library in Knoxville, just two
hours' drive from my home. I am eagerly looking forward to research
there.
I would very much appreciate any comments on any of the families I have
mentioned. Again, thank you!
Ramond Burgin
Big Stone Gap, Virginia
John Steele Gordon
"Burgin" <bur...@mounet.com> wrote in message
news:3CAE0BCF...@mounet.com...
> I am a newbie to this group, but not to genealogy. I have been having
> fun with it since I was a teenager, roughly 50 years ago. I am about
> 300 pages deep into a book I am writing on my Burgin family. I have
> tracked it back through Philip Burgin, who immigrated from Crediton,
> Devonshire to Kent County, Maryland in 1678
And I always thought that Crediton was a mythical place:
A daring young fellow from Crediton
Took some pâté de foie gras and spread it on
A chocolate biscuit
And said, "Oh, I'll risk it."
His tomb bears the dates that he said it on.
JSG
Douglas Richardson
Welcome to the newsgroup. Regarding your three "gateway" ancestors,
the descent from Thomas Keene is extremely shaky. I reviewed the
evidence regarding his English origin about a year ago and felt at
best it was inconclusive. I believe further work needs to be done on
this line before the alleged origin and ancestry of Thomas Keene can
be accepted as valid.
As for Diana Skipwith, Charles Ward published a short piece in The
American Genealogist in which he presented evidence which he thought
proved that Diana was not the mother of Edward Dale's older children.
The matter was subsequently discussed at length here on the newsgroup
in a collegial fashion. All interested parties were invited to
present their evidence. At issue was whether or not English women in
this period used their maiden name after marriage. As the discussion
progressed, evidence was produced which sufficiently indicated that
English women did in fact employ their maiden name after marriage,
although the custom was extremely rare. That issue being resolved,
the remaining evidence strongly indicated that Diana was the mother of
Edward Dale's three children. Please consult the archives to see the
lengthy discussion on this subject.
Ken Finton has since published abstracts of the pertinent parts of the
Skipwith discussion in a recent issue of his periodical, Plantagenet
Connection. Please contact Ken for details about how to obtain an
issue of that publication. The extensive royal ancestry of Diana
Skipwith and her brother, Grey Skipwith, will also be featured in my
forthcoming book, Plantagenet Ancestry. Please contact me privately
about how to obtain a copy of the book.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
bur...@mounet.com (Burgin) wrote in message news:<3CAE0BCF...@mounet.com>...
> I would like to express my thanks to this newsgroup, its administrators,
> and its participants. After lurking for several months on the digest
> mailing list, and working my way very slowly through the archives (I'm
> up to October 1995), I have learned a great deal, not only about my own
> lines, but about medieval genealogy in general. The intermittent
> irrelevancies, overkill, and petty squabbling are a small price to pay
> for the value of the discussions.
>
> I am a newbie to this group, but not to genealogy. I have been having
> fun with it since I was a teenager, roughly 50 years ago. I am about
> 300 pages deep into a book I am writing on my Burgin family. I have
> tracked it back through Philip Burgin, who immigrated from Crediton,
> Devonshire to Kent County, Maryland in 1678, to his gggrandfather
> Richard Burgyn/Burgaine who m. 1563 in Tedburn St. Mary, Devon.
> Richard was a laborer, but had owned property in Tedburn. He sold all
> of his real estate (unfortunately, not specified) in a 1552 deed. Here
> the parish registers run out, and I do not know how to trace the line
> back further. The family was declared not armigerous in 1620, so there
> are no visitation pedigrees. Devon wills were lost in WWII. There
> are IPMs for Joan Burgeyn, relict of William, in 1537, and for Richard
> Burgyn in 1551. These may or may not refer to the Tedburn St. Mary
> family; I have not yet gotten access to the actual texts. Any
> suggestions would be gratefully welcomed.
>
> All of my known paternal 17th-century ancestors were in Virginia and
> Maryland–not a Yankee or a Puritan in the lot :-) There are three
D. Spencer Hines
> mailing list, and working my way very slowly through the archives (I'm
> up to October 1995), I have learned a great deal, not only about my
> own lines, but about medieval genealogy in general.
Ramond Burgin
----------------------
That was VERY smart.
Others should follow your example.
Welcome Aboard!
Good Hunting.
"One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no
ordinary man could be such a fool."
George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair) [1903-1950] ---- _Notes on
Nationalism_, May, 1945
Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque
Paenitentia, Legem Destruit Moralem.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of
in your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of
Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
---------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
Blair Southerden
there is one for Devon. I believe Chris Phillips has recently posted an
index to these volumes in this forum. If there is a topological volume for
the parish where your relative held property, it may be recorded here.
Good luck,
Blair
S.B. Southerden from Winchester, Hampshire
Researching Kearton; Kirton; Kyrton
blai...@globalnet.co.uk
Maryland-not a Yankee or a Puritan in the lot :-) There are three
______________________________
Douglas Richardson
Thanks for the laugh. Much appreciated.
I hail originally from Sacramento. I wonder if that can be rhymed
with anything? Mmmmmmm ....
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
"John Steele Gordon" <ance...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<AFpr8.157262$u77.35...@news02.optonline.net>...
David Mowbray
Gordon <ance...@optonline.net> writes
There was a young lady from Ryde.
Ate so many apples she died,
The apples fermented,
Inside the lamented,
And made cider inside 'er inside.
DM
--
David Mowbray ....in Glorious Gloucestershire
e-mail: mow...@one-name.org
Nathaniel Taylor
>My mother's family, Ramond, immigrated from the Languedoc to the
>Mississippi Gulf Coast and then New Orleans in the mid-1850s. My late
>uncle Charles K. Ramond wrote and published a book on them, _The Ramond
>Family and Related Lines_ (1964). He established a connection with a
>line published in _Nobiliaire universel de France, ou Recueil général
>des généalogies historiques des maisons nobles de ce royaume_, by M. de
>Saint-Allais, reprinted Paris 1873-1874. This line extends back to
>Pierre-Raymond, seigneur de Folmont, "descendant of the early counts of
>Toulouse (déscendant des anciens comtes de T.)" Needless to say, I
>have searched among the descendants of the early House of Toulouse, but
>unsuccessfully. I have no idea how reliable a resource the
>Saint-Allais _Nobiliaire_ is, and would appreciate any comments on it.
I would seek independent verification of the line in the Nobiliaire, but
you might post the line as you have it, to see if anyone can suggest
specific places to work on verifying it. If Pierre-Raymond, seigneur de
Folmont, is alleged to be an agnatic (male-line) Toulouse descendant, an
obvious place to look would be the modern account of this family:
Jacques-René Magne and Jean-Robert Dizel, _Les comtes de Toulouse et
leurs déscendants les Toulouse-Lautrec: étude historique et généalogique
IXe-XXe siècles_ (Paris: Editions Christian, 1992).
You could also search Devic & Vaissete's _Histoire generale de
Languedoc_ for the lord of Folmont in the appropriate period.
Nat Taylor
Bryant Smith
Isn't Ryde just around the corner from Bight?
There was a young lady of Bight
Who could travel faster than light.
She went out one day
In a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
Bryant
Costa Rica
Paul Moynagh
ski...@racsa.co.cr (Bryant Smith) wrote:
> Isn't Ryde just around the corner from Bight?
>
> There was a young lady of Bight
> Who could travel faster than light.
> She went out one day
> In a relative way
> And returned on the previous night.
No 'Bight' in my English gazetteer; perhaps you were thinking of 'Wight', on
the Isle of which is the English town of Ryde? But the version of the
limerick 'Relativity' [by 'Anomymous'] I have is:
There was a young lady named Bright
Who would travel much faster than light.
She started one day
In a relative way,
And came back the previous night.
[p 216 'The Weekend Book'. Published by Random House Inc NY. 1929]
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Moynagh
pmoy...@argonet.co.uk
D. Spencer Hines
Who would travel much faster than light.
She started one day
In a relative way,
And came back the previous night.
[p 216 'The Weekend Book'. Published by Random House Inc NY. 1929]"
Paul Moynagh
-----------------------------
Precisely!
El Pollo Loco's version is Farblondjet, Farpotshket and Wrong.
In short:
Bollixed Up.
Well Done.
Deus Vult.
"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study
mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and
philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation,
commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to
study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and
porcelain." John Adams, (1735-1826) Second President of the United
States. Letter to Abigail Adams, his wife, 12 May 1780.
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
-----------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Paul Moynagh" <pmoy...@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:na.c8c9324b25....@argonet.co.uk...