MacDuff, Thane of Fife, Man or myth?
LEA...@aol.com
and the theory presented is conjectural. This is not documented fact.
In my continuing search for the true origins of the MacDuff Earls of Fife, I
have come across something which leaves me very perplexed. The source for
this is one very highly respected and reputable source for Early Scottish
Charters and History, Sir Archibald Campbell Lawrie. I will cite the
pertinent passages and would appreciate feedback from anyone with knowledge
of this family.
Sir Archibald Campbell Lawrie _ Early Scottish Charters, Prior to A.D. 1153_;
James MacLehose and Sons, Glasgow, 1905;
Notes to XIV (Notice of a grant made by Aethelred, son of Malcolm III to the
Keldei of Loch Leven, AD 1093-1107 - please note that Lawrie states that
Aethelred was dead by the time this notice was written)
Page 244-245:
Insuper Comes de Fyf. ........G.E.C. suggests that Ethelred was Earl of
Forthriff and Constantine was Earl of Fife. It was an early tradition that
Macduff was Thane of Fife in the reign of Macbeth, and that in the time of
King Malcolm he became Earl. Mr. Skeene thinks Macduff is "Fictitious,' the
creation of Fordun, and Robertson ( Early Kings I., p.124): " Fife was 'in
the crown' in the days of Malcolm Canmore, who granted the Earldom to his son
Ethelred. The Macduff, Earl of Fife, of the fabulists --
a being unknown to Wynton - must be put down as a myth." These eminent
writers are mistaken. Macduff may be a myth, but he is certainly not a
creation of Fordun. Wyntoun, who calls him Thane of Fife, gives a long
account of him which agrees with Fordun."
NOTE: G.E.C. is _Complete Peerage_
Page 245:
"Constantinius, Comes de Fife, was probably the son, or grandson, of Macduff
of Fife, who lived in the reigns of Duncan I., Macbeth and Malcolm III.
Constantine Macduff is one of the witnesses to the doubtful charter by Edgar
to Durham (No. XV., ante, p. 12). Constantine Comes is a witness (circa A.D.
1128) to the great charter by David I. to Dunfermline Abbey (No. LXXIV.,
ante, p. 61) with Gillmichel Mac duf, whom I take to be his son and successor
in the Earldom."
This brings up questions as Constantinius Comes Fyf is also in the record of
the suit between the clergy of St. Serf and Sir Robert Burgonensis (circa
1128) as one of the judges and he was the man who withheld the shire of
Kirkcaldy from the Abbey of Dunfermeline.
Lawrie presents Constantine, Earl of Fife as the father of Gillemichel, Earl
of Fife which is one generation further back than presented in Scots Peerage
by Balfour.
On page 238 while commenting on another charter which is believed to be
spurious
from Malcolm III to the Church at Dunfermline, A.D. 1070-1093 (this charter
has been greatly debated as Balfour found it spurious but Dalrymple found it
sound, Lawrie agrees with Balfour):
" I will not say, as some do, that Macduff is a myth, but it may be doubted
that whether the Macduff of Macbeth's time survived until the marriage of
Malcolm and Margaret."
Lawrie also supported the theory that Ethelred was without heirs and
functioned as
the Abbott of Dunkeld as a priest, not as a lay Abbott as Crinan had before
him. He did not believe that Ethelred sired the Fife line and proposed that
Macduff was the progenitor of this lineage. Any additions or thoughts on
this would be greatly appreciated.
MichaelAnne Guido
raymond l montgomery
May i ask what is the line of decent to this macduff or line of fife?
RAY
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PDel...@aol.com
present Duff family claims descent from the old Thanes of fife, but this is
as yet unproven, despite it coming to early prominence at about the time the
Mcduffs of fife died out.
PG
LEA...@aol.com
<< Michaelanne
May i ask what is the line of decent to this macduff or line of fife?
RAY >>
Dear Ray,
There are many lines of descent from the Fife family. The main line of the
Earls of Fife continued into the 14th century. The Fife's are also ancestors
of the Strathbogie
Earls of Atholl, Stewarts, the MacKenzie family (and through them many
others) and many more. Do you have a descent that you want me to check?
The early portion of this lineage has never been proven. Based on
documentation
I have collected on the line, I agree with Lawrie that this line can be
extended back as far as Constantine, Earl of Fife who lived ca. 1129.
Constantine, 2nd Earl of Fife (?)
/
Gillmichel Mac Duf, 3rd Earl of Fife. Died before July 1136. Date can be
debated
as this is based on his son Duncan succeeding to the Earldom. The Book of
Deer
(disputed on several other grounds) cites 1131-1132 as date of death for
Gillmichel.
/
Duncan MacDuff, 4th Earl of Fife died ca. 1154
/
Duncan MacDuff, 5th Earl of Fife died after July 1203 = Ela
/
Malcolm MacDuff, 6th Earl of Fife died 1266 = Maud Strathearn
Malcolm had a brother David MacDuff who became known as David de Strathbogie
born in 1192. The Strathbogie line branches here.
There are other siblings on these branches that lead to other lines. The main
line continues. Isabella Countess of Fife, sister of Duncan, 10th Earl of
Fife crowned
Robert the Bruce.
The question of who sired this line orginally is what is in debate. This is
the reason for questioning Aethelred versus MacDuff.
I hope this helps.
MichaelAnne
LEA...@aol.com
Thanks for the help. Could you detail the first few early generations of the
Duff family
and the basis for their claim ( if known)?
MichaelAnne
James Dempster
I don't have the materials in front of me, but a good short
explanation of the Duff claimed descent from the MacDuffs is in A & H
Tayler's "The Book of the Duffs". They were well respected family
historians and editors in the 1920s and 1930s who carried out a lot of
work in north-east Scotland. They were also connected to the Duffs.
Whilst they put forward the claim as it has developed over time - that
the ducal line, Duff of Braco, descended from the 16th century Duffs
of Muldavit/Craighead, who in turn descended from the Macduffs, there
is more conjecture than evidence, and the Taylers recognise this.
Though heraldry is more often than not a bad guide to genealogy, it
does throw open another possible avenue for the origins of the family.
Until they were ennobled in the 18th century, the Duffs showed no use
of Macduff heraldry, indeed the non-Fife lines in NE Scotland still do
not to this day. Even the Fife's great Adam pile, Duff House, shows
the Duff arms described below rather than any Macduff arms, which only
appear when Duff of Braco was created Earl of Fife (in the peerage of
Ireland, which did not give him a seat in the House of Lords).
The general form of their heraldry is an ermine fess dancetty between
a stag's head in chief and two scallops in base. This rather awkward
form of arms may have been imposed by the Lord Lyon, since there is
physical evdence - in the form of the marriage arms of William Duff of
Braco & Lady Janet Ogilvie on the sundial at Orton - that previous to
1722 William Duff, later 1st Earl of Fife, believed his arms to be a
fess dancetty between three escallops.
Fesses dancetty are extremely uncommon in Scottish heraldry. Other
than the Duffs, the only example is a 17th century (pre-1692)
matriculation by Patrick Divvie, Merchant in Aberdeen. In his case,
the field of the shield is red, whilst the Duffs have always been
green.
The fess dancetty is more common in England, and is used (between
three escallops) by a Dorset family called Dive. This may seem a
distant connection, but as far as the Duffs who are now Dukes of Fife
are concerned, it is probably no more so than the Macduff connection.
The family has been embellishing its ancestry since 1676, when
Alexander Duff of Keithmore persuaded the Lord Lyon to state that he
was "representer of the familie of Craighead", an entry which later
had to be annotated with the comment "There is good reason to believe
that he is not the Representer of Craighead."
James
James Dempster (jdem...@easynet.co.uk)
You know you've had a good night
when you wake up
and someone's outlining you in chalk.
LEA...@aol.com
<< Here's one. I have John Strathbogie, Earl of Athol (died 1306). He was
the son of David Strathbogie (died 1275) and the father of David (died
1323). Whom did John Strathbogie marry?
Thanks. >>
Dear Benjamin,
David Macduff de Strathbogie born ca. 1192
/
John de Strathbogie, Earl of Atholl = Ada de Hastings, Countess of Atholl
/
David de Strathbogie, Earl of Atholl born ca. 1240 died August 6, 1270 =
Isabel of Angus (see note 1)
/
John de Strathbogie, Earl of Atholl died Nov. 7, 1306 at the Tower of London
(executed for treason) = Margaret de Mar (see note 2)
/
David de Strathbogie, Earl of Atholl born 1288 died 1327 = Joan Comyn
/
David de Strathbogie, Earl of Atholl born 1307 died Nov. 3, 1355 = Catherine
Beaumont
/
David de Strathbogie (de Assells), Earl of Atholl born 1322 died Oct. 10,
1375 =
Elizabeth de Ferrers
/
daughters (Elizabeth and Philippa)
Notes:
1) died on crusade with St. Louis IX, King of France
2) brother-in-law of Robert the Bruce. Margaret de Mar was the sister of
Isabella de Mar wife of King Robert Bruce. He was captured in England and
hung as a traitor (according to Burke on fifty foot high gallows as was Roger
Mortimer later by Edward III)
MichaelAnne
PDel...@aol.com
name all over the world.
I must revise the previous statement slightly on the Duffs and the Macduffs -
The Duff family, has from the late part of the 14th C a well authenticated
family tree. The first Duff in the filiation is a David Duff * c1375 oo Agnes
CHALMERS (de Camera) of Muldavit. He got a charter of these lands in 1400.
It is proven without a shadow of a doubt that instead of being a son of John
Duff of the Orchard who married Isabel Allan, Adam duff of clunybeg, father
of Alexander duff of Keithmore, was the UNCLE of John.
PG
Stewart Baldwin
montgomery) wrote:
>May i ask what is the line of decent to this macduff or line of fife?
MacDuff is a surname, indicating descent from a man whose first name
was Dubh, the most obvious candidate being the king of Scotland of
that name who ruled in the tenth century, a member of the dynasty of
Kenneth son of Alpin. Unfortunately, even though the suggestion that
the MacDuff earls of Fife were descendants of King Dubh of Scotland is
plausible enough (though unproven), there is no reasonable information
on the possible intervening generations.
Stewart Baldwin