Invalid Royal/Noble Lineages
Shalandara
disprove royal connections? If not there should be!
Long story here:
I got into genealogy a long time ago (for me) at the age of 12 when I found a
booklet put together for a family reunion when I was 3. I was hooked. I wnet
on with it, and slowly started my own research. Of course, my basis was what
family members before me had done, some of it done in the 1890s and was rife
with false lines, especially roayl/noble connections. I happily believed them
real until I encountered proof otherwise. But I was young, and naive, and new
to the idea of documentation. I am better (but not perfect) now, but I find it
hard to retrace the research done when I was a teenager.
Now, my paternal uncle has gotten into genealogy now that he is retired. I do
not see much of my fathers family due to a nasty divorce, and I am perceived as
a child still. He has found some of these wrong royal connections and has
happily been parading them around. I would love to find the documentation that
disporves this connection. (Its Reginald Foster the immigrant to New England
BTW). It is painfully easy given the explosion of resources on the internet to
find all the false genealogical lineages you want, but to find the proof that
they are false is hard. It occurred to me that one idea would be to have a web
page devoted to false linieages. At a minimum it would be a list of said
immigrant with a listing of the citation for the book/article/whatever that
proves there is no royal/noble descent.
What do you think? Is it workable?
Elizabeth Ernst
The...@aol.com
Hello Elizabeth,
There was some recent discussion about 'documenting the
undocumentable', as it were. Haven't heard anything on the subject lately,
although I am sure there is still considerable interest. Perhaps you'll get
some 'related' feedback from some of the others......
Check the SGM archives re: Reginald Foster - I just did, and see there
were at least 5 threads on the subject (most fairly short). You should find
someone else in SGM who can help you, based on their own
experience/documentation.
Good luck, and good hunting.
John
Nathaniel Taylor
shala...@aol.com (Shalandara) wrote:
Yes, there have been several discussions about this. There are various
plans underway--ranging from a handlist to a full-fledged website with
extended discussions of real and bogus lines (the planned APSG website
that Paul Reed has been working towards). So far, I think the handlist
idea is the most workable: a simple list of disproven lines, to be added
to by whomever, with brief citations to where the ancestry is found (in
print, not on the web) and where, if anywhere it is disproved (or, if
there is no printed disproof, a one-sentence capsule of why it's so
bogus).
There's an interesting collaberative database just being launched by one
list-member, The Henry Project, constructing a collaborative database of
proven ancestors of King Henry II of England. An on-line handlist of
disproven US colonial gateways would be a much easier collaborative effort
IMHO. I don't have any webspace or html, or I would have started this
already.
Nat Taylor
Reedpcgen
In the mean time, post each questionable immigrant you have (in different
messages) and people here will help you with the specifics. Is Reginald Foster
the only one you are wondering about, or are there others?
Post what you have about the immigrant and his immediate ancestry and we can
help.
pcr
Gryphon801
Ancestry of Dudley Spears_, his chapter on Renold [not Reginald[ Foster being
reprinted in _Massachusetts and Maine Families in the Ancestry of Walter
Goodwin Davis_ 1:569-75 (GPC, Baltimore, 1996). The royal ancestry given this
emigrant by Frederick C. Pierce is garbage. His marriage, parents and paternal
grandparents are known; they lived in the parish of Harlow, co. Essex, where
the registers do not survive before 1755, but where there is some help from
probates. But there is no known royal ancestry for him and none likely to be
developed. I have been working this past week on this problem for a client and
may publish a note on it if the client gives permission, since I have found
additional evidence to confirm Davis's solution.
G.J.Antonuk-Lis
Parts of it are online. I think it may be archived at the Polish
Nobility Associations website, www.pna.com, or .org, something like
that.
To join the Polish Nobility Association and likewise orgs you need to
go back at least 3 generations, usually just on fathers side.
-Chev. GJ Antonuk-Lis, KCPT, Order of the White Eagle
Heather Olsen
: Is there a site or book that lists the locations of articles/books that
: disprove royal connections? If not there should be!
I can relate to your frustration. When I got started on genealogy, (also
very young) my paternal grandmother told me her mother descended from John
and Priscilla Alden of the Mayflower, and her father from Edward III
through Gov. Edward Digges of Virginia. It took me a while, but I was
ultimately able to show that both lines were bogus. (Edward Digges does
descend from Edward III, but our Digges don't descend from him). Since I
was contradicting research that had been done by family members, my
extended family mostly insisted that I was wrong. (Some finally came
around when I came up with a different, documented royal descent for
another of our ancestors. ;-)
I think your suggestion is an excellent one, very doable, and something I
would be willing to help with. In many cases, all that would be needed
would be a brief citation to a book or article that disproves a given
lineage, with a minimal amount the evidence. If nothing satisfactory has
been written, volunteers could write a short explanation.
It would obviously be necesary to set some parameters as to how close to
the present the "break" in the line would have to be to be included. For
example, in my Digges/Diggs family the point where what has been bandied
about diverges from reality is in the early 1700s. We would also need to
decide whether to focus only on lines that are clearly bogus, or whether
to include those where the evidence is more mixed.
Heather Olsen
RAY Montgomery
I have two bogus one.
1. Michael Woods appears to have not been the son of Sir John Woods and his
wife isabel bruce, from dunshaglin castle of some thing like that as he and
his son archibald where involved with deeds along with the goss family in
Transallagh donegal co Ireland when according to several books they where in
meath co. Ireland
2. Mary Campbell his wife is also not from the argyl familiy, nor his
brother james, nor from the same campbells that came to augusta co VA.
Her campbells also appear to be from Donegal co.
If I can think of any others i will let you know.
RAY
If you quit, you fail!!!
Monte J. Brough in a personal letter (March 1980)
>From: nta...@post.harvard.edu (Nathaniel Taylor)
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: Invalid Royal/Noble Lineages
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:47:47 -0400
>
>In article <20010726145700...@ng-mr1.aol.com>,
>shala...@aol.com (Shalandara) wrote:
>
> >Is there a site or book that lists the locations of articles/books that
> >disprove royal connections? If not there should be!
> >
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Sutliff
> : Is there a site or book that lists the locations of articles/books
that
> : disprove royal connections? If not there should be!
Actually a web site of this sort has been in development for a couple
of years. We haven't heard much about it for some time. I know that a
computer failure resulted in the loss of much preliminary work for
this site, but if you would care to read more about the work of Dr.
Neil Thompson, FASG and Paul C. Reed, FASG, the link is as follows:
http://www.geocities.com/~gryphon801/
Henry Sutliff
GRHa...@cs.com
ss...@earthlink.net writes:
> http://www.geocities.com/~gryphon801/
>
>
Greetings Henry,
I went to the APSG home page with the url above; but none of the
"click here" buttons worked. Should they have worked at this stage, do you
think? I was curious and interested.
Gordon Reid Hale
Doug McDonald
GRHa...@cs.com wrote:
>
> Greetings Henry,
>
> I went to the APSG home page with the url above; but none of the
> "click here" buttons worked. Should they have worked at this stage, do you
> think?
No ... there is no URL lurking behind them not even
a "works" to hook to. I looked at the code.
But see my "re: Rev. Robert Rose" for more on this.
Doug McDonald
Arthur Murata
same thing. Nothing clicked. Bronwen Edwards
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Gryphon801
by the end of the year, if not before.
Sutliff
past year. Paul posted something I think it was last year or the year
before) on the status, but I have forgotten exactly when that was.
HS