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Fitz Randall of Spennithorne and Lascelles of Esckrick
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John Watson
Dec 17, 2017, 9:36:38 AM12/17/17
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Hello all,
I recently came across two statements in genealogical publications which confused me for a while and probably confused quite a few others, looking at some of the old posts in this group.
The first statement deals with the Fitz Randall family of Spennithorne, Yorkshire in Magna Charta Sureties:
4. Ralph fitz Ranulf, lord of Spennithorne, born ca. 1250/60, died before 1316; married Theophania (or Tiffany) de Lascelles, daughter and coheiress of Sir Roger de Lascelles (IV) of Kirkby-under-Knowle, co. York.
5. Ranulf fitz Ralph, lord of Spennithorne, sometimes called Ranulf de Lascelles, born ca. 1300, died after 1343; married Isabel.
Arthur Adams and Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 (1955), Appendix, 127.
In looking through contemporary documents I have been unable to find any reference to Ranulf fitz Ralph being called Ranulf de Lascelles. In all contemporary documents he is known only as Ranulf fitz Ralph (Ranulph filius Radulphi).
The second statement is in Complete Peerage, dealing with the four daughters and coheirs of Roger de Lascelles: (iv) Tiffany, who married Ralph FitzRanulph, of Spennithorne. Their son Ralph was sometimes known as Ralph de Lascelles, in whose issue descended the manors of Escrick and Ellerton-on-Derwent.
Complete Peerage, vol. 7 (1929), 449.
As far as I can tell, their son Ralph was always known as Ralph de Lascelles and not by any other name.
To make the genealogy clear:
Ralph fitz Ranulf, lord of Spennithorne, married twice. By his first unknown wife he had a son and heir Ranulf fitz Ralph, born before 1295, who inherited his father’s lands.
On 10 September 1317, Ranulf son of Ralph, and his heirs, had a grant free warren in all their demesne lands in Woodhall (in Aysgarth), Spennithorne, Swainby, Neuton Pygot and Aysgarth, co. York. (Cal Chart. Rolls, iii, 363). All these lands had been held by his grandfather Ranulf fitz Ranulf, at the time of Kirkby’s inquest in 1284-5.
Sir Ranulf son of Ralph was living in August 1343, and was succeeded by his son John fitz Ranulf, also known as John de la Woodhall. They were the ancestors of the family which adopted the name of Fitzrandolph of Spennithorne.
An outline descent of the lords of Spennithorne can be found here: -
'Parishes: Spennithorne', in A History of the County of York North Riding: Volume 1, ed. William Page (London, 1914), pp. 257-264.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/yorks/north/vol1/pp257-264
Ralph fitz Ranulf, lord of Spennithorne, married secondly Tiffany de Lascelles, fourth daughter and coheir of Roger de Lascelles (Lord Lascelles) who died about 1300. By Tiffany, he had a son Ralph, who adopted his mother’s name of Lascelles. He inherited his mother’s share of Roger Lascelles’ lands, consisting of a part of Escrick and Ellerton on Derwent, Yorkshire and Barbon, Westmorland.
In May 1323, the inquisition post mortem of his grandmother Isabel (or Elizabeth) de Lascelles found that Ralph, aged 24, was one of the heirs of Roger Lascelles and Isabel. (CIPM, vi, 251, no. 425).
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol6/pp242-252.
Ralph de Lascelles of Escrick was living in May 1344, and was succeeded by his son Roger.
An outline pedigree of the Lascelles family of Escrick can be found here:
'Barbon', in Records Relating To the Barony of Kendale: Volume 2, ed. William Farrer and John F Curwen (Kendal, 1924), pp. 364-373.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/kendale-barony/vol2/pp364-373
Just to make it clear that Ranulf son of Ralph and his half-brother Ralph de Lascelles were not the same person (as shown in some internet pedigrees), they both appear in this entry in the Close Rolls:
22 May 1319, Ralph de Lasceles and Ranulph son of Ralph acknowledge that they owe to John de Britannia, earl of Richmond, £46 13s. 4d.; to be levied, in default of payment, of their lands and chattels in co. York. (CCR, 1318-1323, 127).
Regards,
John
I recently came across two statements in genealogical publications which confused me for a while and probably confused quite a few others, looking at some of the old posts in this group.
The first statement deals with the Fitz Randall family of Spennithorne, Yorkshire in Magna Charta Sureties:
4. Ralph fitz Ranulf, lord of Spennithorne, born ca. 1250/60, died before 1316; married Theophania (or Tiffany) de Lascelles, daughter and coheiress of Sir Roger de Lascelles (IV) of Kirkby-under-Knowle, co. York.
5. Ranulf fitz Ralph, lord of Spennithorne, sometimes called Ranulf de Lascelles, born ca. 1300, died after 1343; married Isabel.
Arthur Adams and Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 (1955), Appendix, 127.
In looking through contemporary documents I have been unable to find any reference to Ranulf fitz Ralph being called Ranulf de Lascelles. In all contemporary documents he is known only as Ranulf fitz Ralph (Ranulph filius Radulphi).
The second statement is in Complete Peerage, dealing with the four daughters and coheirs of Roger de Lascelles: (iv) Tiffany, who married Ralph FitzRanulph, of Spennithorne. Their son Ralph was sometimes known as Ralph de Lascelles, in whose issue descended the manors of Escrick and Ellerton-on-Derwent.
Complete Peerage, vol. 7 (1929), 449.
As far as I can tell, their son Ralph was always known as Ralph de Lascelles and not by any other name.
To make the genealogy clear:
Ralph fitz Ranulf, lord of Spennithorne, married twice. By his first unknown wife he had a son and heir Ranulf fitz Ralph, born before 1295, who inherited his father’s lands.
On 10 September 1317, Ranulf son of Ralph, and his heirs, had a grant free warren in all their demesne lands in Woodhall (in Aysgarth), Spennithorne, Swainby, Neuton Pygot and Aysgarth, co. York. (Cal Chart. Rolls, iii, 363). All these lands had been held by his grandfather Ranulf fitz Ranulf, at the time of Kirkby’s inquest in 1284-5.
Sir Ranulf son of Ralph was living in August 1343, and was succeeded by his son John fitz Ranulf, also known as John de la Woodhall. They were the ancestors of the family which adopted the name of Fitzrandolph of Spennithorne.
An outline descent of the lords of Spennithorne can be found here: -
'Parishes: Spennithorne', in A History of the County of York North Riding: Volume 1, ed. William Page (London, 1914), pp. 257-264.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/yorks/north/vol1/pp257-264
Ralph fitz Ranulf, lord of Spennithorne, married secondly Tiffany de Lascelles, fourth daughter and coheir of Roger de Lascelles (Lord Lascelles) who died about 1300. By Tiffany, he had a son Ralph, who adopted his mother’s name of Lascelles. He inherited his mother’s share of Roger Lascelles’ lands, consisting of a part of Escrick and Ellerton on Derwent, Yorkshire and Barbon, Westmorland.
In May 1323, the inquisition post mortem of his grandmother Isabel (or Elizabeth) de Lascelles found that Ralph, aged 24, was one of the heirs of Roger Lascelles and Isabel. (CIPM, vi, 251, no. 425).
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol6/pp242-252.
Ralph de Lascelles of Escrick was living in May 1344, and was succeeded by his son Roger.
An outline pedigree of the Lascelles family of Escrick can be found here:
'Barbon', in Records Relating To the Barony of Kendale: Volume 2, ed. William Farrer and John F Curwen (Kendal, 1924), pp. 364-373.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/kendale-barony/vol2/pp364-373
Just to make it clear that Ranulf son of Ralph and his half-brother Ralph de Lascelles were not the same person (as shown in some internet pedigrees), they both appear in this entry in the Close Rolls:
22 May 1319, Ralph de Lasceles and Ranulph son of Ralph acknowledge that they owe to John de Britannia, earl of Richmond, £46 13s. 4d.; to be levied, in default of payment, of their lands and chattels in co. York. (CCR, 1318-1323, 127).
Regards,
John
Douglas Richardson
Dec 21, 2017, 10:41:10 PM12/21/17
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Great work, John. I has arrived at similar conclusions in recent time regarding the two marriages of Ralph Fitz Ranulph.
For your interest, below is the weblink to a 1291 Common Pleas record involving Ralph Fitz Ranulph and Walter de Fauconberge:
Court of Common Pleas, CP40/90, image 389d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no90/bCP40no90dorses/IMG_0389.htm).
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
For your interest, below is the weblink to a 1291 Common Pleas record involving Ralph Fitz Ranulph and Walter de Fauconberge:
Court of Common Pleas, CP40/90, image 389d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no90/bCP40no90dorses/IMG_0389.htm).
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Douglas Richardson
Dec 21, 2017, 10:46:41 PM12/21/17
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Dear John ~
Here is the weblink to a 1291 Common Pleas lawsuit involving Roger de Lascelles, Lord Lascelles:
Court of Common Pleas, CP40/90, image 402d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no90/bCP40no90dorses/IMG_0402.htm).
Here is the weblink to a 1291 Common Pleas lawsuit involving Roger de Lascelles, Lord Lascelles:
Court of Common Pleas, CP40/90, image 402d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no90/bCP40no90dorses/IMG_0402.htm).
John Watson
Dec 23, 2017, 5:16:09 AM12/23/17
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Thank you for the information.
A.D. 1300. Joan, prioress of Tykeheved, v. John de Curewenne, Robert le Conestable and Amice [sic] his wife, Robert de Tilliol and Maude his wife, and
Ralph FitzRalph [sic] and Theophania his wife, to exonerate her of the service which the Abbat of S. Mary's, York, requires for the free tenement which she
holds of the defendants in Escryk.
De Banco, Mich. 28 & 29 Edw. I. m. 259 d.
William Paley Baildon, Notes on the Religious and Secular Houses of Yorkshire, vol. 1, Yorkshire Archaeological Society, Record Series 17 (1895), 209.
I've been unable to find the record of this case on the AALT website. Can anyone be of help?
Regards,
John
Douglas Richardson
Dec 23, 2017, 7:19:22 AM12/23/17
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Dear John ~
I didn't find the above lawsuit you wanted but I did find another one in the same year involving the same people. Here is an abstract:
In Trinity term 1300 Elizabeth widow of Roger de Lasceles sued Hugh de Louther and Juetta [Ivette] his wife in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of one messuage, 57 acres of land, 3 acres of meadow with appurtenances in Lowther, Westmorland, which she claimed as her right of dower. And Hugh and Juetta [Ivette] came and called to warranty Joan widow of Thomas de Colewen, Robert le Conestable and Amice his wife, Robert de Tylyol and Maud his wife, and Ralph Fitz Ranulph and Tiffany his wife as daughters and heirs of Roger de Lascell.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/134, image 727d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no134/bCPC40no134dorses/IMG_0727.htm).
I trust this lawsuit is helpful to you.
I didn't find the above lawsuit you wanted but I did find another one in the same year involving the same people. Here is an abstract:
In Trinity term 1300 Elizabeth widow of Roger de Lasceles sued Hugh de Louther and Juetta [Ivette] his wife in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of one messuage, 57 acres of land, 3 acres of meadow with appurtenances in Lowther, Westmorland, which she claimed as her right of dower. And Hugh and Juetta [Ivette] came and called to warranty Joan widow of Thomas de Colewen, Robert le Conestable and Amice his wife, Robert de Tylyol and Maud his wife, and Ralph Fitz Ranulph and Tiffany his wife as daughters and heirs of Roger de Lascell.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/134, image 727d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no134/bCPC40no134dorses/IMG_0727.htm).
I trust this lawsuit is helpful to you.
John Watson
Dec 23, 2017, 12:00:59 PM12/23/17
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I wanted to check the other lawsuit to see if it actually says Ralph fitz Ralph instead of Ralph fitz Ranulph. I get the impression that even contemporary documents sometimes mix up Ralph (Radulphus) and Ranulph (Ranulphus).
Not quite so badly as Kirkby's inquest for Yorkshire which names the lord of Spennithorne in 1316 as "Reginaldus filius Radulphi" instead of Ranulphus filius Radulphi (Surtees Soc., xlix, 338).
Regards,
John
Douglas Richardson
Dec 24, 2017, 6:42:45 AM12/24/17
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I can confirm for you that the given names Ralph and Ranulph were interchangeable, much like Margaret and Margery.
DR
DR
John Watson
Dec 25, 2017, 2:32:29 AM12/25/17
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Were Radulphus and Ranulphus really interchangeable, or is it more likely that this is careless transcriptiion by modern writers and translators.
Regards,
John
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